Now the 490 with Gretchen.

De Bakker might kill them.

And Kevin Mullin up.

Welcome to the 419, powered by CTE and presented by Retro Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin mullin.

Gretchen Debacker.

We almost matched today for the folks on, TV.

Matt and I rocked a little bit of the maroon.

Yeah.

And then Gretchen just does what she wants.

I do.

Yeah.

You guys put it in the spreadsheet that today was pink, but you didn't read it.

I will eat the spreadsheet.

Okay.

I was going to say this.

I got a great.

I really work with you down here.

Yeah.

Got an exciting show today.

It's wellness Wednesday presented by Work spring.

Yes.

And we're talking sleep.

Yes.

Which is I it's such.

And like that was always like, when I get busy, that's the first thing I get rid of.

Like, people ask me, like, because I have a lot of different jobs.

So, like is there anything you don't do?

And my default answer is.

Yeah.

Sleep.

Sure.

Like that's the thing I don't do.

That's what they used to torture people.

Kevin.

Now.

Now we do this show.

Yeah.

I will tell you that I I have terrible sleeping habits.

So I'm interested in talking about this.

It's the first thing.

If I'm stressed out, I will prolong.

I'm going to go to sleep, to prolong the next day.

So I'm sure that is not wha we're supposed to be, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, have you had it?

Where, like, you know, alarm goes off you on the weekend, right?

Alarm goes off.

You turn it off here.

I'm just going to get some more slee and you wake up and it's worse.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

Like, I don't I don't know why that is.

And then you should go back to sleep again.

That's that's our drinking.

Okay.

You start drinking.

Just go.

So go right into it.

That's right, I like it.

All right, so we're goin to have Melanie Appel from work.

Spring, a senior wellness consultant, going to join us.

We'll talk a little bit about, sleep.

And then we're have Docto Michael Brown from DMB coaching.

We'll come in and tal a little bit about kind of all.

The new things.

Absolutely Yeah.

Wellness.

There's a lot.

We we need coaching for sure.

And then I'm really excited, as we sort of veer a little bit into, a different topic, invite somebody on this.

It's making a real difference in our community.

We're going to have the folks from 211.

United Way's 211 call center will come on.

And I'm really like I am such a big fan of the folks that work at 211, and they are incredibly talented.

I have had the chance to sit in on a number of calls, but I used to work at United Way.

I know that.

And you get a chance to hear somebody calls and says, hey, I've got this challenge.

And what they are best at is asking, like the second or third question.

And so like, yeah, it' not about solving that problem that's in front of you, but it's like, let's tal about how you got there.

Yeah.

And where we what services in the community we can connect you with.

So, yeah, I'm I'm excited about it.

Of course, a lot of different opportunities for folks to catch any part of this program.

7:00 am on YouTube, 3 p.m.

we're on FM 91 and 6 p.m.. We're on connect channel 30.4.

I'm trying to track the camera here.

We'll get it eventually.

It's come back to the middle.

And of course, if you're o the radio, that means nothing.

Means nothing.

Of course, the app.

The app is amazing.

It's fantastic.

And, you can also email the show.

Only compliments.

That's right.

Complaints.

Go straight to the junk.

But for one 9@e.org, of course, the website dot org slash the 419.

All right.

When we come back, we kick off our Wellness Wednesday presented by Work Spring with Senior Wellness consultant Melanie Apple.

We'll be right back on the 419.

Support for the 419 comes from we Trow wealth Management, where we understand tha your financial path is personal.

Advisory services are offered through Capital Investment Advisory Service LLC, securities offered through Capital Investment Group member Finra and CPC.

More information at Retro advisors.com.

The 419, powered by GT is made possible in part by supporters like you.

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Introducing the local Fred, a community news series uniting voices and storytellers from across the region in partnership with La Prensa, the Toledo Free Press, the Sojourner Truth, Toledo Public Schools and Rethinking Jails Injustice.

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It's a local thread only on.

Welcome back into the 419 It's Wellness Wednesday presented by Works Spring.

I don't know what just happened by voice there.

Well, yes.

When you know.

You get excited for Wellness, puberty is a. Thing.

That's right.

The second time is late onset puberty.

Here on the 419, we got Melanie Apple, senior wellness consultant.

We are the picture of health.

But tell me what?

Guess what's wrong with this?

Yeah, that's that's that's right.

This is mainly a therapy session.

Wow.

She just looked at her watch, like, how much time?

I love it.

How long have you been at work?

Spring.

I've been.

It works for.

Four and a. Half years.

Okay.

All right.

So one Olympic cycle.

Yes, yes, that's how I judge.

That's how I measure most things.

Most things.

It's instead of sayin how old your kids are in months, Matt does it in the Olympics.

You know, try their Olympics in the Winter Olympics?

Yeah.

That's right.

What what exactly doe senior wellness consultant mean?

It just means that I still d the same thing as anybody else.

I have different clients.

I'm in the Cincinnati Dayton area, so I work with clients down there.

But I just go around to the different groups and just help them with their, their wellness program, trying to get them educated, seeing what, where their issues are, where, where they need help.

And offering the the advice that I can give them to help them to, to be a better, healthier, healthier.

If you had to judge who is least healthy, Cincinnati or Toledo, who would it be as.

Look right into that camera.

Yeah I'd say it's even.

If you are someone by coastal, if you consider, you know, the Ohio River and the Miami.

There you go.

You which I. Do.

You do?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's pretty exciting.

So do you live here in Toledo?

And then.

You know, I live down the Cincinnati Dayton area.

Okay, so.

You drove all the way up just for us?

I did.

Well.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

My goodness.

What?

You know, we're talking sleep.

And obviously, if you're coming up from Cincinnati, you didn't do a whole lot of that, to get up here.

But what what's the what's the right answer when it comes to sleep?

Like, how much should someone get?

First, it's fundamental.

Like, we need it.

I mean, you know, we we that is the first thing we skimp on when we're running short on things.

Stress 100%.

But you need to try to get that 7 to 9 hours as an adult.

I mean, it's it's.

I'm sorr to sound like you said, 7 to 9.

I did.

Yeah.

How about that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Of course.

Yeah I mean, that is that is tough.

It is.

Yeah.

I mean, I think so.

I think about, like, with, with our.

So before we did this show.

Yeah, our normal routine as a family was we put the kids to sleep.

My wife and I would go watch a show like, so that we've got, like some time during the day wher it's just us and then go to bed.

Yeah.

But I feel like we violated almost nine of the ten rules around sleep, where it's like, great, let's do technology and screens right before we go to bed.

Let's delay sleep.

So, I mean, I don't know that I know I didn't last time, I got seven and nine.

I know everyone knows this.

I probably the staples of getting good sleep.

So, but I do want to walk through with you, but is it just infuriating to be somebody that has real working knowledge?

And then there's this epiphany from some celebrity that's like, hey, you need to eat good exercise and sleep and people like, we should do that.

You ever like.

Yeah, moron.

That's what I've been saying.

Just because LeBron James right doesn't mean is now not made true.

But, the clinical approach or the planning of sleep.

What what should that look like?

What does it need to look like if you're the reality is you're only going to get five hours.

Is that the kind of sleep you get?

Exactly.

I mean, honestly, I mean, the quantity matters, but the quality of that sleep matters probably even more.

I mean, just because you want to mak sure that when you are asleep, if you're getting that five hours, that it's that quality that you're making sure that you're doin all those wind-down activities in the evening, staying off the screens, you know, maybe trying to figure out what works best for you, taking a nice bath you know, doing some journaling, something that's not very that's not going to get you up and riled up then not doing work before you go to bed.

Yeah.

Not watching those films that are really intense, but just doing something calming and soothing so that when you do go to sleep, if you are just getting five, it's going to be good quality five hours of sleep.

That's probably also intuitive, but what are the signs that you're not doing this?

And I know this will sound obvious, but if you don't mind, just the list of yeah.

Yeah, no, I mean and it's probably it's things that we already know.

I mean, you know, you're a little bit more snippy with people, a little bit more agitated.

You know, you're you're not thinking real clearly.

You can't really put your thoughts together.

You know, just things like that.

Like you'r going through the day, obviously you're tired.

You get in those phases, and you can't focus on your work.

Your wor probably suffers a little bit.

So.

Yeah just kind of those common things that can really star to affect your everyday ability to function and to be a nice person.

When do you decide that, like a. Want to be a nice person?

I did, I did, yeah.

It's really.

Something to ignore it.

Yeah.

Okay.

These are the suggestions.

Like what.

Are.

People of different age have different particular issues with sleep.

As you get older?

Women especially have hormonal issues that you just it's you can do the calming thing, you can do the journal you can drink a nice cup of tea, but it's just not going to work.

Yeah.

So what how long should you be trying?

Is there a is there an effort that you should just or a decision that you should make that you should just get up and.

Yeah, yeah.

Is also that true fo relationships that just can't.

Have how quickly she was like another senior.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is next Wednesday.

I can refer you to a therapist.

Right.

I'm sorry, what was the question again about?

About how long you should attempt to to like to stay in bed and actually try to sleep.

Stay in bed?

I mean, honestly, if you're laying there for 20 minutes, 30 minutes and you're just not going to sleep, you know, the TV's off.

You've tried the journaling, you tried everything.

It's best just to kind of get up because I kind of sleep like everything else.

You can't force it.

You want to be able to just kind of lay down on your pillow and fall asleep.

If you're trying to sit there and close your eyes and force yourself into sleep, it's not going to happen.

So give yourself a good 20, 30 minutes of trying it and then get up.

And you still you don't want to go turn the TV on and watch some big show or get in something active.

But you.

Don't want to.

Do that.

You don't want to do that.

You want to kind of go back into those calming things that you were doing before, just something to try to calm you down.

What do you.

Go to to figure out if it's actually something medical snoring, sleep apnea hormone or something like that.

You talk to you just your GP about that.

Yeah.

Yeah I would just go there and honestly I mean I'm not a doctor myself, but yeah, I would definitely star with your general practitioner.

And with that even as far as like your timing, if you've tried to try this for maybe 3 to 4 weeks, if you're still jus having issues, going to sleep, getting good quality sleep there, definitely give your doctor a call because there could be something else involved, something going on with your body.

That to your point, none of that stuff's going to work and that maybe you do need something additional.

I'm just thinking, like, I'm still I'm still stuck on, like, the list of things that you're not supposed to do before you go to sleep.

And, like, when I get busy, those are all the things tha are cutting into my sleep time.

And so the thought of me like, hey, I got a bunch of work to get caught up on, and so I'm going to stay up late and do it, and then I'm going to take time to wind down and then like, that's just not happening.

I'm also curious to take that on to Kevin's.

Like, if you're hyperactiv or you have a really active mind and a high functioning one, but active, you know, sometimes those screens and things can be a distraction that helps you to sleep.

Obviously, that's not a clinical right, that people should listen to you.

But what are the what are the hacks, that are would be helpful in that way.

Meaning like, an app that you listen to or white noise or.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know.

Yeah, white noise.

The boxe fans and people like the fans.

Yeah.

Just something that's calming to you.

At the end of the day, everybody's individual.

Is really, really Caucasian is just record him talking.

That's perfect of this monitor that you write.

About the.

White noise as a gift.

Yeah, yeah yeah.

And you.

Know could I sell that.

Maybe.

Yeah.

Let's monetize it.

That's right.

It's just him.

Talk to me about World War Two.

It.

Yeah.

You know.

Absolutely.

I mean, you have to kind o figure out what works for you.

Just like wit any type of wellness activity, you just kind of figure out, is it the white noise?

Is it a fan?

What's working for you?

And also knowing what's not working?

Yeah, I've got to be aware, you know, cutting out those items, like, even caffeine, if you're a big caffeine, tryin to cut that out in the evening so that that's not affecting you.

Heavy exercise, things like that.

No problem.

There.

Yeah.

But what about food?

Like how long before you go to sleep?

Right.

I know it's, you know, 30 minute before you can get in the pool.

What's the what's the answer on sleep?

Don't sleep in a pool Oh, yeah.

That's an important.

Oh that may be coming, right?

Yeah, that's for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

Watching your food.

Heavy meals.

You definitely want to do that.

You know, I would say, and again, you know, maybe two hours before, staying away from the spicy foods, alcohol.

We like to think that that calms us then will put us to sleep.

And it it kind of will put you to sleep, but you're not going to be in that good REM sleep.

You're not going to be getting a good quality sleep.

So you are going to be quote unquote, asleep.

But it won't be good quality.

It's also complex sugar.

Yeah.

It's not a great.

It's not a great.

Yeah.

So it's best to avoid those heavy meals.

And sure talk to me about you mentioned REM sleep.

Like what.

What is that.

What is that like.

Is it a fixed amount of like the cycl is that a fixed amount of time for everybody or what does that look like.

Yeah.

I mean it's just it's that deep sleep that you get into and that's when your, your body's kind of kind of pressing that reset button.

So you're kind of resetting everything for the next day.

You're getting that good sleep.

Where your body's just really kind of getting rejuvenated for the next day.

Or you.

I have a. Question about sort of resetting.

I mean, your your body is, is complex.

It is is also to some degree simple.

So if you get five hours one day where you can't make up for it, the next day is is there a way to think abou sort of recharging your battery?

So if you've had a stressful week, I should be more, I don't know, docile or is or first true?

Or is all this a matter of planning and having a sort of rote?

Yeah.

I mean, at the end of the day, it's planning.

It's kind of figuring out what works for you.

Just making sure that you're kind of setting that time, like you kind of mentioned, you can't really bank in the sleep.

Basically, you can't get it because actually what you should be doing is kind of setting that schedule towards the same every day.

So if you get up early during the week, you know, it's not appealing.

And I'm not sayin everybody does it, but you know, it's better if you can get up at 5 a.m.

every day as opposed to 5 a.m.

Monday through Friday, and then I'm going to sleep until eight on the weekend.

It's better that you kind of keep that schedule well for.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I remind everybody.

That that's all right.

But but I think it's a good reminder because I think in my hea it's like, oh I haven't gotten you know, I've had a bunch of days during the week where I haven't got enough sleep.

I'm going to make up for it on the weekends.

But you're saying that that doesn't actually.

That's my question, right?

Yeah.

It's kind of like we'll just throw some more money into the bank.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah, it doesn't really work that way other.

Than just how you're feeling.

But it's difficult sometimes to pinpoin what's causing the way you feel.

How can you scientifically show or is there anything you recommend to to people that works?

Bring to to show what their sleep is?

Is there an app, those ordering a sleep study, like what can you do to make sure that that's the thing right?

It's causing you other problems during the day?

I would say on your own, jus for you to to go home, you know?

Yeah.

Using like the fitness trackers is a great way to or just to kind of get a snapshot and idea of what's going on.

So you can kind of see, because those do track how much deep sleep you're in and everything, and then you can take that to your doctor.

And that's how they function.

That seems so strange to me that.

I honestly I'm sorry.

I do.

That's okay.

You make it up.

That's what we do.

Yeah.

I have found them hard to swallow.

If that's not what they're for.

Oh, yeah, that's true.

What wha responsibility does an employer have in in getting involved in somebody's sleep schedule?

I mean as far as just responsibilities, just educating their employees, making sure that they, they are well aware of, what they should be doing before bed prep for it.

If they are having issues, wh they can reach out to for help, some more or less.

It's just kind of educating their employees and making sure they have th knowledge, making sure they're well aware of their resources that's available to them.

Certainly you guys work with all types of employers, including manufacturing employees that have different shifts, different shifts, and later shifts to me, just seem lik torture as it relates to sleep.

Yeah.

What are there are there different recommendations or considerations that those companies have for people that are working those late shift question.

Yeah, I don't know exactly about the companies, but as far as the individuals, it's kind of the same as, as a first shift worker.

But you got to figure it out for those shift workers.

They have to be able to because obviously they're not going to sleep all during the day.

And then obviously they're awake at night.

But usually everyone else in their life, everybody during the day.

Yeah.

So when you if you go home and you have kids, you have to start their da even though you've just been up working all night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's just kind of figuring out what works for them.

And getting on that cycle.

So, you know, again, like anytime you start something new, it usually takes a few weeks to kind of get it established that 4 to 6 weeks.

So getting them established on that sleep routine that works best for them, taking to, you know, just not huge naps during the day, but like the 20 minute kind of power naps to kind of get them through.

Is that 20 minute power nap, is that is that truly rite of passag what Kevin mentioned jokingly.

But we did live.

I'm 47.

I probably lived 40 years thinking that if I ate, I would immediatel cramp up and die while swimming.

If not, give me a 30 minutes.

So is the 20 minute.

Is that truly accurate?

I don't know if that was true.

Yeah, I don't.

The Nap debate is is a real one.

The rising rap nap debate.

Because when you get up so early in the morning, you know, 4:00 you're I, I've said to these guys several times, I could literally go home.

I can just go up and go to bed.

But, you know, the you're going to be up at 1 a.m.. So then you.

Have no energy in that show.

I don't know.

Doesn't make any sense.

No, it makes no sense.

Yeah.

It makes no sense.

You're marginally conscious now.

That's true.

Are you a napper?

But that's sort of what I'm saying.

Like you get, you know, at that 4:00 time.

Well, let me just sit down here on the couch.

Yeah.

And then you nap.

But then it's I don't know, I can't remember, I don't think it works.

I there was a stretch there where I was, where I would like basically get up, start the day with the kids, try to get some things done.

Like I was working from home quite a bit, so I was like, all right, maybe I'll, maybe I'll take a nap.

But no, not not.

How about you?

Not really.

Yeah.

I mean.

It's t some degree it's not practical.

I mean, yeah, if I'm napping, something to mark either.

Yeah.

I'm just.

Well, I'm about to not be.

Well, I mean, there's, like, a nap on the couch, but you're not going to, like, get into bed.

Yeah, but we talk.

About like that banking.

Right.

So like, I can't, like, if I didn't get enough sleep, you know, two days ago, I can't sleep more today.

Is napping work toward like, within that cycle.

Right.

So I did not get my five hours.

But I'm going to take a 45 minute nap in the middle of the day.

Is that.

I'm ahead.

Yeah.

That's.

Yeah, I do like it's a little different.

It's a jumpstart on the next one.

Yeah.

I don't know if I'd say it.

It's banking it, but it is definitely kind of.

Obviously our bodies tell us when, when, when we need sleep and if you need sleep, if you'v gone through a stressful time, whatever situation, maybe your body does need to kind of sit down, relax for a little bit, take a 45 minute nap and obviously everybody's individual.

So there's no harm in that at all.

We're talking with Melanie Appel, a senior wellness consultant with Work Spring.

Let's let's put a bow on this one right.

We're talking about sleep.

What is the you know, the the number one sign that somebody is not getting enough sleep.

I would say behaviorally like how they are acting or how they are not functioning in day to day life.

You know, maybe even if it's with people, you know, with their job, if things are just starting to decline and they you're just it's not up to par.

Up to par.

What they were doing maybe in the past.

Well, I don't think Gretchen' ever gotten enough sleep, then.

Nope.

All right, Melanie, thank you so much.

We appreciate the time.

When we come back, we'll be joined by Docto Michael Brown from DMB coaching.

We'll talk about emotional intelligence.

Then we'll get his sleep schedule.

I got to believe he's doing it right.

Just probably based o our early morning interactions.

I'm sure he's got it down to a science.

We'll be right back on the 419.

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Where you come to watch, listen and learn.

Welcome back into the 419.

It's a Wellness Wednesday presented by Work Spring.

We're joined now by Docto Michael Brown from DMB coaching.

Doctor, thanks for joining us.

It's a pleasure to be with you.

You can call me Michael, please.

All right.

Michael, what is DMB coaching?

We are a consulting company.

We do a lot of coaching consulting, curriculum writing.

I do a lot of public speaking.

So we tend to think in terms of the consulting for teams, coaching for individuals, curriculum development around a lot of different dimensions of life and then also communication.

The fourth key would be communication, public speaking, keynotes and things of that nature.

How does one get to hear?

To me, a little bit a little Doctor Michael Brown, and your folks, Or what?

What makes your molecular composition something that would lend themselves to this work?

Yeah.

I think because just realizin that the only thing that matters the most in life is human connection.

And so the more I can invest in people and in humans and relationships, it's what matters the most.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So we've been talking about sleep.

But I'm curious.

Just you in your own, like, to 9 hours is the right number.

Sure.

How is how is Doctor Michael Brown doing in that area?

Great.

So it's 8.5 hours every single night, 365 days a year.

Essentially, I was listening to Melanie as she was sharing, you know, one of my favorite questions to ask people, particularly on a Monday morning, if I'm in line for for a cup of coffee at one of the local Toledo area coffee shops, is to be able to say, so how are you doing today?

A typical response is Monday.

I'm tired.

Yeah they walked right into my trap.

Yeah, because then what I'm goin to say is, as a life coach, I'm going to be empathetic and say, I'm really sorry about that, but I am curious when did you choose to be tired?

Try that question in line.

Well because even when you ask someon why did you choose to be tired.

Most individuals look at you like why didn't choose to be tired.

Life is tiring.

Yeah.

That's why I'm tired today.

But then I'll say so.

I'm just curious.

What time did you go to bed last night?

And they'll kind of look at me and.

And maybe say, you know, 2 a.m.. I said, well, there's no judgment here, but that's why you chose to be tired today.

I mean, you were still scrolling into 11 p.m., you were googling how tall is Jesus at midnight?

Yeah.

And then you're wondering why today, you know, you're exhausted.

So I agree with Melanie.

I think a regular, sleeping cadence has been really, really good for that.

The choices piece is interesting, right?

To say, like, when did you choose like, I think it's, you know, you had mentioned as we're coming in like, you believe a lot of, of, choices play a role and a lot of kind of who we are and what we do.

Well, Kevin, what happens often is when we things are not going well, we tend to think that there's the circumstances outside of us that we have no control over, that are creating or contributing to the reality that I'm in today.

I would say personally, that probably 95% of the life that we're living today, we've chosen our way into.

In fact, when someone hires me as their executive coach, whether it's a professiona athlete or a C-suite person or someone in higher education is, I will oftentimes say, at the top of a piece of paper, just right.

The challenge you're facing, the thing you want to change, the thin that you want to be different.

Put a line down the middl on the left side of the column.

Right choices on the right side of the column, right circumstances.

And then go ahead and record for me over the next week.

What do you think are choices you are making that are contributing to this particular issue?

Maybe it's health and wellness.

Maybe it's a relationship challenge.

Maybe it's career advancement.

And then on the right, all the circumstances that are completely outside of our control that are contributing to the situation I find myself in today.

And what happens then is you would imagine a week later I get that assignment back.

The circumstance column is listed.

It's so many points in the choice column there's 3 or 4.

And then I have the unfortunate privilege to show how so many, the things you call circumstances are now in the choices that we make.

I'm curious and obviously thi is a question is all the time.

And I'm by no means qualified to ask you.

But I'm interested in dissecting the concept of choices.

So, this is to some degree an educatio or a lesson in accountability.

Right?

But you have a you carry a lot of freight with relationship management people.

Right?

So as you walk through, dissect the concept of a choice.

How deep into that definition do you get?

I get really deep.

And the reason is, i I think Aristotle said it best that I am what I continually.

You mean Jeff Aristotle, the guy that was like, what a guy.

He's very good.

I' thinking farther back in time.

Oh, no.

Father, the baby was over.

Yeah, yeah, but but we are what we continually do.

In fact, as we sit here today, I am 0% the accumulation of my intentions and 100% the accumulation of my decisions.

And so I a who I am, what I continually do.

And so every choice we make in life falls in one of three categories.

Starting, stopping, sustaining.

I call the three S's of choices.

So the decision to act or not act is the choice.

So everything you d is either you start something, you stop something or something that's going really well.

You keep doing it.

And I think that we tend to diminish the significance of choices.

In fact, when people hire me or even spend time with me, they're like, can you help me change?

I like to be a little provocative when they ask me that, and I'l say, well, here's the sad news you can't change, but you can choose.

So don't focus so much on changing, focus on choosing.

And as you begin to stack those choices, you will begin to actually pick up one day and say, I've changed.

We're talking about Docto Michael Brown from DMB coaching.

You talk about choices and start or don't start.

I just for me, I think about like somewhat like it at work the analysis paralysis of like, I've got all these things I need to do and I'm not sure which one to do first.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do I how do I approach something.

Like, what are the great choices in that regard is and I actually talk about this, I have a three words podcast is my podcast, and one of our three words episodes was called with Casey, who was a former guest of yours, Design Your Day.

I would even expand tha slightly and say, Every Sunday I like to spend 45 minutes designing my week.

Instead of trying to prioritize my schedule, I'm scheduling my priorities and taking just 45 minutes and actually putting the big rocks in my schedule.

I avoid the analysis percent, the analysis paralysis and the Sunday scaries that happened to all of us.

And here we go.

I have not gotten everything I need to get done.

And what's the week going to hold?

Well, the week is going to hol what I choose to make it hold.

I'm not a slave to my schedule.

I get to decide.

I get to choose how I spend the next few minutes.

I get to decide.

I do that on Fridays, and I find it very helpful to look at the calendar for the next week.

And no, but but I also find that if something else comes up, how quickly I change that.

Even though I had pre decided that this is what I was going to do, also, I think that most people know, I certainly know what I should be doing.

I know what choices I should be making, I know what would help me in certain ways workout, eat right, meal prep, all that kind of stuff.

But then I feel like I hav no discipline to actually do it.

Then you in the moment you make the different choice you make the different decision.

So what do you a DMV do to to to stop that point?

Because it's not about knowing everyone.

Everyone knows you should sleep and eat right and exercise and you know what I mean.

Make sure your car doesn't run out of gas and clean your house and all this stuff.

This isn't wow, there's well, there's so much ther that you just share, Gretchen, because what you're talking now is, is the connection between choices and my min and my emotions and my feelings.

But even when you use tha phrase, something might come up.

Why?

So get t choose when something comes up, do I allow that to enter into my space?

So a distraction is 100% my choice.

Someone knocks on my door, I can say go away.

Yeah, if the phone rings I can choose not to answer it.

I can actually put my phone in the drawer.

I can turn off the sounds in the notifications on my email, and actually do 25 minutes of deep work.

But you're right, we know what we need to do.

But oftentimes I find with my clients and the folks that I spend time with, what we're lacking is a North Star that I'm putting togethe an entire curriculum right now around what it means to be unstuck, to get unstuck and one of the mos important things is perspective.

If you have a clear North star of who you want to be at 95 years old, it's easier to make choices today.

In light of that.

Speaking of notifications there are physical notifications or your gut tells you something.

People say it all the time.

At the risk of asking yo a personal question, of course, someone who's knowledgeable in this space, what's the answer?

Gary?

And truly studies the mechanism being, what is your tuning fork and nurtured in which other people be conscious of it?

Like if your gut is telling you this, listen to it.

Something comes up.

You're about to make a choice.

Listen to what?

Heart head combination of the two.

Yeah, I would say it's a it's more about the head than the heart because we shouldn't believe everything we think.

And oftentimes our feelings aren't telling us the truth.

The way I like to describ it is to think of our lives more like a train.

Particularly as I work with young kids.

You mean train wreck?

Well, that's what I want to get to, is that I want you to envision, most everything we want.

And we used to make decisions that we really think are essential ingredients to living the bes life are really in the caboose.

Things like confidence, motivation, positive feelings, happiness.

I mean, I could talk about happiness forever.

Happiness should never be a pursuit.

It's always a fruit of a life well-lived.

But in the engine of the train is 100% our choices.

And then what happens i overflow is some of these things that I just mentioned, the caboose.

The problem is many of us are trying to to drive the train with the caboose, which is why we're off the tracks.

That's what you said, Gretchen.

A train wreck.

So.

And it's a species that lays claim to being so evolved.

That's certainly up for debate.

So the mechanism of making decisions for the immediate as opposed to the long run.

Ooh, I love this car.

Is there a hack for that?

And I don't mean not to sound disingenuous but I mean, if you know things immediately, like, I want to do this because it feels good or I'm not going to do it because it feels bad, you know what?

What is?

When I launched Three Words podcast a week now, I think we dropped.

We've dropped 230, 235 episodes.

Thank you.

Wonderful.

I knew that the first episode must be the most important thing I would ever say.

Yeah, the first three words.

We should have done that.

The first three words need to be because I knew I was going to launch this podcast.

Three words podcasts, short 15 minute conversations, always three words.

I said, well, what are the most important three words of someone?

Someone actually asked me that once.

I said, you said so many things about so many things, but if you could just say one thing, what would it be?

You ready?

Here we go.

It is the ability to delay immediate gratification.

Yeah.

So to be able to actually loo at something that you want now in order to achieve something you want later, that is far more positive, far more better, far more meaningful, that is the key.

So I talk about the 1 dimensions of a person's life.

So financial dimension, if you apply that particular principle there, imagin to the recreational dimension.

Imagin if you made a choice on Friday night or Saturday night in ligh of who you want to become now.

I mean, if you star making the physical dimension, obviously you're talking about sleep, nutrition, food, exercise.

If you could actually say no to something in the present that actually will give you pleasure, but probably not joy and happiness, you literally have hacked.

I mean, you have done you have determined the life hack.

Joy and happiness is the pleasure.

So it's like, right, that's.

What you're saying.

But I would sa pleasure is different than joy.

And happiness because sometimes pleasure stings.

In fact if I can give a word to parents, I cring when parents say to their kids and I have nine children my own and I've done this is I have nine children of my own.

So that's maybe another conversation.

Five oh yeah, that feeling really great.

You'd be very surprised.

How old is.

Your neck in.

Living.

Out these principles?

Let's just talk about someone who's on here to talk about making good choices.

Yeah, I think I heard you say nine.

Well, wait a second.

I didn't even connect those.

You get enough sleep.

Well, at this point.

At this point, I have nine children.

Five grandchildren.

Oh my God.

But only one is left in the house, so I, we have four biological children, five that we've adopted out of foster care.

And so we have a big family, huge family.

We are quite.

And when we travel with people anyway.

But but the reality is I'm trying to practice what I preach.

So I will tell you, I feel better at 57.

Yeah, that I felt at 47.

And I made it my goal to feel better at 67 than 57, which again may not happen, but I get to decide what choices and what deposits I'm making into there.

So back to what I was saying about parents.

So with parents is when they say, I just want my children to be happy, right?

I just want you to be happy.

What they're hearing is I just want to it.

My parents want me just to experience pleasure.

Interesting.

Happiness is not a pursuit.

It should be a fruit of a life well lived.

That is, happiness is in the caboose, right?

And the choices that we're making in the engine of the train on most days when we're making those amazing choices in the physical, emotional, spiritual, relational dimensions, those are only four of the five of my 12.

All I can think about is nine kids.

So I want her to think, you said after that, do.

You truly believe a you must, but why do you believe that is possible for someon who has gotten to the age of 50 thinking wrongly about motivation and and choices?

Can, can, can change can make their lives different.

You know one of my favorite populations is the 20 somethings.

I work on a college campus.

I love the college student.

And one of the reasons that I do a lot of work with college students, and I've been on campuses all over the country.

Even in the last couple months, I've been on three different campuses.

I love working with young people, and the reason i because they are drying cement.

They've not yet dried.

But they are drying.

But the conversations I could have with them in those moments, they could shift the director of their lives.

But there's still changes that can be made with a typical person who hires me as their coach between 45 and 55 years old.

Typically, they've climbed the ladder of success, only to realize the ladder might be leaned up against the wrong wall.

We can do some significant work.

There could be changes that are made.

I'm not going to focus on the changes.

I'm going to focus on the choices.

However, it's going to feel like taking a jackhammer to the cement.

Sure, it's going to require a lot more work but for sure it's not too late.

Talk to me about I said, pardon me, Kevin, but when are you not doctor Michael Brown?

Meaning, are you able to hang this up?

Or is the pursuit 24 76 like how what is decompressing?

What is sitting down?

Yeah.

Well and again, I will spen 2 to 3 hours a day working out.

Okay.

I will sleep, like I said, 8.5 hours a night.

I love a good Netflix series with my wife.

I mean, yeah, there are, there are.

But also I want to make sure the things that I and hear.

And here's even my definition of fun.

We could have this another conversation, but my definition of fun is playful, positive, and purposeful activities that rejuvenate heart, mind, and spirit.

So if I'm actually choosing activities that are draining me often as it were, calling, unwinding what we're calling, it's draining.

We're actually I'm feeling less alive.

Right?

You know, people ask me why do I do the thing that I do?

And maybe this is a good closing to what we're talking about here, but every single person I meet on the planet is living, but very few of them are alive.

And the reason they're not alive is because they're not understanding the power of the next choice, the next moment.

More can happen in a minute than in a month, and more intentional I am.

I was on.

The doctor Michael Brown from DMB coaching Michael.

If people want more informatio on DMV, where can they find it?

DMV coaching.com.

Awesome.

Thank you so much for joining us.

My pleasure.

We've got some choices to make.

Yes.

Yeah.

We'll be right back.

We'll talk 211 on the other sid of this break here on the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

It's Wellness Wednesday, presented by Work Spring.

I'm so excited to welcome couple friends onto the program.

Our friends from 211.

Please welcome Aaron Tupper and Sandra Destino.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Thanks for coming to Rutledge.

That's what you bring to the show.

You're welcome.

Yeah.

What if folks are not familiar with two?

One, one?

Sandra, what is two?

1121 is a place that you can connect to to find out what you're in need of.

We connect people to, food pantries, to, homeless shelters, to utility assistance, to volunteer opportunities.

Right no we have, financial opportunity centers doing, five Vida tax appointments.

So lots of things that we can connect people to to make sure that they're doing all the things that they need to do.

Two.

One one.

I'm familiar with the threat of is always starting too far down the tracks.

So can you give us sort of the birth of 211 where the model came from and sort of the.

Why?

Sure.

In the 70s, a lot of, they were called first call for help, started and they were local lines wher people could call and find out what programs and opportunities were available.

That has just transformed over the years, and two databases and two phone lines that are, more with the FCC and we are able to provid this model across the country.

Most of the United State is covered by a two, one, one.

And, so if you're in Ohio or if you're in California or if you're in Arizona you can call two and one and see what, programs and resources are available in your area.

My favorite thing to say is 22 and one is a 24 hour a day, seven days a week call center that helps connect people to social services.

It works, hand in hand with 98 and 911911 is for emergencies, 988 is for suicide prevention and 211 covers everything else.

If you are a perso that is a service provider, yes.

Should you be reaching out to two and one to make sure that the United Way has your information as well?

Our entire database i on our website at 211 nwo.org.

So they can go in there, they can take a look at their entire listing, and there's a place for service providers to reach right out to us, if any of that is incorrect.

Aaron, you and I have had, interactions get to know each other through a couple of different roles.

When you got to United Way.

What was the first thing that, I mean, because obviously, you knew about two on one before you got there, but when you got inside and actually saw, you know, how the is made, what was the the first thing that kind of the moment on two and one.

I had worked so much with two on one when I was at the city before, so I knew I went in knowing what I, what I wanted to do in that two and one and advocacy for two on one is important.

But just making sure that people understand because we don't always there had there had been a period of time where tw on one wasn't super well known.

It had gone to Cleveland and then came back and we were really trying to make sure that people understoo how important to one one being and Toled and having this great service.

So just getting the word ou there, coming on shows like this and making sure people know that two and one is available, but also two and one, we, we fundraiser get grants for that.

It's not funded at any while.

The City of Toledo funds, they gave us funding but it's not funded at the state or federal level.

It's an integral service, but it's not funded at the state or federal level.

We are one of two states in the country that does not fund it at the state level.

So what's the other one?

Illinois.

Okay.

Interesting.

I'm glad.

I, I mean, let's be clear.

No one's going to fact check.

So you think whatever state you want to blame.

Okay.

And Illinois though.

So they would have a could I ask a questio the the operator side of this, you must whomever is picking up the phone must have to have a really robust knowledge on where to send people.

And they are triaging.

Essentially, yes.

And the person that is on the other end is probably under some distress.

Absolutely.

Tell me about these great people that manage funds.

Yes.

Our, two on one communit resource advisors are the ones who answer the phones, and they are just some of the best humans I've ever I've ever met.

And they are de-escalating daily, peopl who are getting into situations that there are les and less resources to deal with.

So homelessness, food insecurity, there's new requirements on Medicaid and Snap.

And those are all against it.

And it is making life so complicated for a lot of our community members.

So our community resourc advisors are there to help to, you know, take a breat with them, to walk them through what is happening and then what can help that situation.

We're talking with Sandra Distinto and Aaron Tupper from United Way of Greater Toledo, talking about all things two, one and one.

I, I'm curious when you talk about those, you know, those community resource advisors, the how do you train them on the next question?

Right.

Because I guess that was when I, when I sat in on a call and you hear somebody say, you know, oh, I nee I need diapers for my baby.

Yes.

And it's like, well, okay, well, here's a resource to give you the diapers, but they're instantly diving into the pool.

Why can't you afford diapers?

Exactly.

Because if you can't afford diapers, there's probably other things that you can't afford or why.

And so that's the questions that we train them when we go through.

They go they sit through 40 hours of training and then they're on the phones.

They're listening to our other community resource advisors.

So it is about that.

It's about probing questions, but it's about diving deeper than just the ask so that we can get into ther and see, oh, you lost your job or you had a car accident or you know, and that is creating this domino effect of not being able to afford this.

And then that takes from this.

So it's just really about finding what's happening, seeing how much of that we can mitigate immediately and how much we can do, longer term.

How many calls a year are you guys getting?

About 700.

No, no, 70,000.

The combo is in the wrong place in my head.

How big is the net that you cover?

Is it regionalize?

Is it?

What is.

That?

16 counties in northwest Ohio.

So, yeah, we are, all over.

And that really helps us, too.

You know, Lucas County is very unique in how big it i and how, you know, city it is.

And our other counties are more rural.

And, you know it really gives us a difference of what tha that pulse of what's happening not only in Lucas County but all over northwest Ohio really shows how people are struggling.

70,000 phone calls.

What are most peopl calling for housing assistance?

Whether that's renta assistance, finding a new place.

A deposit to move into some place.

And 40% of our calls have something to do with housing.

What's the mechanism for that information?

Meaning?

Like where does that go if you're strategizing or reporting out on.

These are the issues that we've been dealing with.

Of the 70,000 calls, this is 40%.

So that is 30,000 calls.

Yeah.

So what do you even do with that information.

Go to LNH or go to what what what's the next step.

So the city of Toledo, provided mone for 211 over from ARP dollars.

After that, we started giving them a monthly report broken down by council district.

So they interesting.

Yeah.

So they know and they really appreciate that information.

We we disseminate as much information as we can to make sur that the community understands.

You can go on there's 211 counts and you can go and check out information on 21 counts.

Yeah.

We are we'll take requests for data just so people have that information.

Yeah.

211 counts goes along.

There's a populatio above the federal poverty level that is still not making ends meet.

It's called Alice.

It was coined by United Way o northern New Jersey in oh nine.

Alice is asset limited, income constrained, employed.

And so those are people who are employed.

They're just not making it.

So there's a pretty big gap between the federal poverty level an where people can actually like, live, you know.

So every.

Level was just adjusted from like the 30s, not too.

Long ago.

They haven't updated the calculation for the federal poverty level since the 60s.

Yeah.

And it is very antiquate and puts a lot of people out of any opportunity to get support that really need support.

So we ask this question of, Doctor Michael Brown.

And this could potentially put you on the spot.

So I forgive me.

And still life shows.

How do you put this down at the end of the day?

How do you how do you the operators.

And that is not how would they're going to, forgive me, but how do you coach them to put things down?

How do you go from call to call?

And 70,00 feels like 70,000 on your backs.

It absolutely does.

It's a very hard field right now.

And a lot of what we do i we talk about vicarious trauma.

We talk about, how to show.

And I'm sure we'll talk later.

We've got some resources.

You could already tell.

Yeah.

That's right.

Blink twice and we'll get you all the resources.

And saf word is Gretchen's terrifying.

I'm.

I'm the reason sound like a safe word, though.

But it's also different.

Different.

Gretchen.

Absolutely.

Gretchen, are you okay?

That's the question, right?

Of this abuse that arose between 2005, two that.

I'm gonna call the, the, Forgive me.

This is important because there are people that are servicing people.

Yes, absolutely.

Off to the top of this.

So 70,000 calls.

How do you coach your team?

How do you stay?

Okay.

That's this were a really good sense of humor.

Really good sense of humor.

Yes.

You know, really just making sure that everybody knows it's one call at a time.

It's it is life changing work.

And we have to, you know, go into every single one every single one is different, making sure that our staff know that they can take tim for themselves, that they have, leadership, that they can debrief with after particularly difficult calls and more and more telling them to to write those dow because we're using those calls to make sure that everybody knows that this is what's happening.

Have you ever had a really, particularly heard from somebody that was a particular success stor that that used, the references and the referrals that two, one, one made, and they end up calling you back and saying, thank you.

And can you talk about one of those things?

Yeah, they happen.

And it is amazing from, you know getting somebody into a shelter.

I worked in our shelter services before I was director, and I still remember, being able to place a couple that was pregnant on Christmas Eve, you know, several years ago.

And it just feels like very.

Yeah, very much like there's no marriage at the end.

So if they had to go to a homeless shelter, you know, we hea from people who are, first time and don't know how to get through it, and then they're like, thank you for empathy and kindness.

Then, we hear from peopl who have been using the service for a long time and are just grateful that it's there and that they can access i when they need it.

So wonderful.

It's it's Justino and Aaron Tupper from United Way of Greater Toledo.

All right, it's now time.

Oh.

Drum roll, please.

It's now time for Gretchen's wacky quiz.

I'm gonna ask you for rapid fire questions.

Gretchen' asking for your favorite thing in or about Toledo.

And then mask gonna walk you through describing Toledo in exactly nine words.

It's four and a half.

For each of you.

I don't think I've had two people at a time before.

So this is going to really press the rapid fire.

Here we go.

We got like two minutes.

Okay, okay.

All right.

If you worked at th zoo, what would you want to do?

Draft feeder.

Got nothing.

Thought about that?

No.

Never thought about that.

Eugene.

She would.

He was even finish.

Ask me, I was good.

I would probably love to tell people about our amazing zoo.

Okay.

And if you were to inven something new, what would it be?

With all our is is were giraffe feeder.

Automated rescue?

No.

Because then I wouldn't be able to anymore.

Ladders to fill the live feed the giraffes ladders exist.

Dog challenge just builder up.

Yeah.

That's a very hard question to answer very quickly.

It's 4:00 in the morning to spit something out.

Something to make the world better.

Don't know.

Yeah.

Like it?

Favorite social media ladder?

Favorite social media?

I'm always opening Facebook.

I don't know that it's my favorite, but it's my go to a lot.

Of good stuff on it.

You should check reading favorites.

Doomscrolling.

Yeah, things are going great.

Yeah, yeah yeah.

Fourth one.

If, what's one adventurous thing that you'd love to try?

Oh, gosh.

Traveling outside the country.

I've never done that.

Okay.

Okay.

Skydiving.

Nice.

Of course.

What is your number one most favorite or what you consider to be the best thing about the city of Toledo?

It's people.

Okay, I, I'm a big fan of all of the people.

You can't do this work and not fall in love with people.

All right?

I have to say, Metro parks.

I also I think, the heart of the city, there's so much positive going on.

And people, when the come here and they stay after, like two weeks because they see that everything's great.

Yeah, great.

Great hurt.

All right.

And the Metro Parks force.

All right.

Nine words.

We can do it in tandem.

I can write pretty fast.

The nine words that describe the city or region.

I know that you're a little bit outside the city, but that's okay.

We'll still take your answers as gospel.

The people already said, I'll put you there.

Metro parks, you already said so.

We're off to a hot start here.

Museum, Museum.

Good.

Zoo.

Zoo.

Jeep.

Jeep.

Yes.

Good.

Mud hens, mud hand.

Three more.

All right.

You need wet.

Get wet.

I think you two for two.

11211.

Nailed it.

Yeah.

Nailed it.

Oh.

Perfect.

Karen said, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you, thank you for Everything, guys you're doing.

Obviously people need services from, from two and one.

They pick up the phone and they dial.

Two and one.

Or they can visit our website at two, one, one and.

Oh, dawg.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

All right.

We'll be right back to wrap up this Wednesday edition of the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419 as we wrap up this Wednesday edition of Wellness Wednesday, presented by Work Spring, another exciting show.

When we do three guests, I jus feel like it just it flies by.

Yes, and we need more time with each of.

Them, I know.

Yes, I'm certainly true to that.

I hope that folks listening, also think that they need more time with us there.

Like the sho needs to be shorter in general.

I got real nervous when, Doctor Michael Brown was talking about choices, and I'm like, guys.

I got to reevaluate my whole life today.

Well, every day, but, you know, go.

Go work on.

I liked his exercise, right.

Of, like, what's the one thing you want to, like, change or accomplish?

And then you start writing down, like, was it choices or circumstances?

I do actually do that exercise of looking at the next week on Fridays.

Last thing I do before I leave my office on Friday is looking ahead, making sure everything's in the calendar.

When do you have open time?

When are you going to try to do this?

But it's the key is thank you.

Do it.

Sure.

Yeah.

No I don't I don't mean that to be flippant.

No.

Yeah I get it.

Well it's just like like hey I need to go to bed at this time.

I mean, how often, like, even, you know, now with our schedule, how often do I do I push that back and say, now let me do this one more thing.

That's right.

Russell, two, it is a choice.

So these two things are all weighted.

Right.

But yeah, the choice to like this is the only time away from all the days of the day is that would you trade that for an hour sleep maybe.

Yeah.

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