Peggy Sagers: Diana Broussard has a truly remarkable resume.

She's created shoes for some of the biggest names in fashion and was even sent to Italy by Mr.

Klein himself to perfect the shoe craft for the entire Calvin Klein company.

So what's the key to truly great shoes?

Diana has all the secrets and will share those secrets with us so we know what to look for in trying on and buying shoes.

Join me today on "Fit 2 Stitch" as we dive into the history and world of European footwear and uncover what makes it so extraordinary.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ male announcer: "Fit 2 Stitch" is made possible by Kai Scissors.

♪♪♪ Reliable Corporation.

♪♪♪ Bennos Buttons.

♪♪♪ Plano Sewing Center.

♪♪♪ Elliott Berman Textiles.

♪♪♪ And WAWAK Sewing Supplies.

♪♪♪ Peggy: I've always wondered as I've shopped shoes, especially high-end shoes, and you see those fancy names, and you wonder, "Does that person really have anything to do with those shoes?"

And you know what I've learned?

The answer is really there's someone else behind that label.

And I wanna bring on Diana today because Diana Broussard has done so much for the world of shoes.

She's truly the woman behind the shoes, where we don't really even know her or what she's done, but I wanna bring her out because it's amazing what you've done.

Diana Broussard: Oh, thank you.

Peggy: It's amazing what you know.

Diana: Thank you for having me.

Peggy: And this woman knows Italy better than most.

Because you've lived there.

Diana: Right, and worked there.

And the world of shoemaking is always in the industrial zone outside of the main center.

So there's a whole other world of Italy that most people don't see.

Peggy: It is, it's fascinating because as we've talked and you've talked about some of these towns, and I've been to Milan, I've been to Florence, I've been all around, and I've never even heard of these little towns.

Diana: That's the best part and the best food outside of the main center.

Peggy: You're going to have to share some more secrets with me.

Diana: Yes, yes.

Peggy: But anyway, let's talk shoes today because there are so many things to know about, and can we really get them to be comfortable?

Diana: Yeah, I'd love to talk a little bit about the craft of the shoe from a designer's point of view, because a lot of parts go into a shoe and a lot of technical issues, a lot of technicians behind the design of one shoe.

There's the designer and the last maker and the sole maker and the heel maker and the actual factory that puts it together, you know, the tanneries.

So this really is a pretty complicated-- Peggy: It's quite a collaboration.

As a designer, are you involved in every step of that?

Diana: As a designer, and from my experience, I would pick out the leather, design the shoes, draw the design on the last, pass it to the technician.

I think, you know, the more expensive a shoe is, the more the designer has a part in it, the more handmade it is.

Peggy: So those expenses are not just made up.

Because sometimes I look and say, "How can a shoe cost this much?"

Diana: Well, I think once we go through this, you'll sort of have an idea.

Peggy: Okay, where do we start?

Diana: I think, to quote Salvatore Ferragamo, "The last must come first."

And if you have a bad last, you have a bad shoe.

These are photos actually of the workshop where the wooden lasts are made.

Peggy: And this is outside of Florence.

Diana: This particular one was in Civitanova and I think another one was outside of Venice in Veneto, where all of the LVMH factories are.

The Dior factories are mainly in Veneto, the Gucci factories are mainly more in the Tuscan area.

So these are just some shots of, you know, the beginning process of a last, you'll stay in a last factory all day long, carving the shape that you want.

And basically, the last determines the point of the shoe, the toe shape.

It determines the heel height, It determines the size of the shoe, the width of the shoe.

So this is a 37, which it's telling you on here and the number of the last is here.

And if you compare it to this last, this has a taller inclination.

So this is going to be a higher heel than this one.

So when you make, just for information, when you make the heel, the heel also has to follow the inclination of the last.

So this is going to have more of a pitch than a low shoe.

Peggy: So when they make these lasts, do they have such a thing as foot models just like they do in clothing?

Diana: Let's say this is our proto, which this was a proto, the copy of the wooden one.

So you have this, you'll make your first prototype.

And then when they do the wooden lasts, there are all these measurements on here, like this is the width of this, this is this.

And so after we make a proto, we try it on, and if you want, let's say it's too narrow, we're going to add more width here for the foot.

Peggy: Got it.

For example, this is a B width.

A company like Ferragamo will make different widths because, you know, people are so interested in a comfortable shoe.

Peggy: They are, more and more so.

Diana: And so the more widths that you have and different companies have different fits, so one company might fit your foot better than it does mine.

So you start with the last and, for example, I have a sketch here of a simple pump and when you draw the design you cover the last in masking tape, you draw it, and then you cut, there's a center front and a center back.

So if you think of designing clothing with a mannequin, there's some of the same techniques.

You can drape a jacket on a mannequin, or you could drape on the mannequin.

The one thing about a shoe is it has to support the weight of the body, right?

You have weight that has to hold your foot, support the body.

A different heel height will give you a completely different attitude, the way you stand.

Peggy: Sure, it does.

You just have to think about all of that.

And once they determine a last for a company, do they just repeat that continually?

Do they change it up a little bit?

Diana: If there's a last, it can become the signature of the brand.

Maybe modernize it a little bit as time goes on.

But to make this last, for example, and then grade it into all of the sizes, grade the inner sole, the outer sole, the heel, which are also all graded, it's a large cost.

And that's one of the reasons that designer houses, you know, if they keep changing it, that's a cost in itself.

So let's say we have this last.

Ideally, let's say I have this basic pump, but let's say we did a mule and we do a T-strap.

Like, you want to utilize this expense in the most ways you can, but also it will give a certain aesthetic to that collection, right?

Peggy: So that would be quite a big part of the expense of the shoe, is not just maybe the last, but the research that goes in.

Diana: The grading of all of the components.

Grading the sole.

Peggy: Got it.

Interesting.

Diana: So when, let's say, like, for this style, I covered this last in masking tape.

This is just sort of like a beginning process.

You cover it with masking tape.

And I drew this upper on this last and then I just cut with a X-Acto knife the pump, added the seam allowance underneath and the seam allowance here.

This seam allowance is larger because you're going to last this form with the upper and it's going to be attached to the inner sole.

Peggy: It's going to be wrapped around.

Diana: And the inner sole is the backbone of the shoe because everything, it's going to have the shank, number one, which will support the shoe from breaking in two.

Peggy: That's important.

Diana: Right, so there's the inner sole.

And when you make the design, the bottom, this shape with no seam allowance, is the inner sole, the outer sole, and the sock shape.

So a last can have many, many sizes, variations, but then when you get to a sole, that changes everything again.

So what's fun for me as a designer is you have infinite amounts of things you can do with one last.

So from this pattern, I'll just kind of show you, when you have this, is the pattern from the masking tape.

Peggy: That's got seam allowance added?

Diana: Right.

Peggy: Because you can see that will wrap underneath.

I've seen a broken shoe where you can see that little seam allowance wraps around underneath.

Diana: Right, so this will be attached with nails or staples underneath and be removed.

And this is the lasting of the shoe.

This again would have lining, would have reinforcement in the toe and the back.

So one thing, if you're making a last, you have to imagine that last with three more layers of fabric on top.

Peggy: Yeah, yeah.

That's all considered in the pattern itself.

The last itself doesn't actually change.

The size of the last doesn't change.

Diana: Right, but if you're making the last from the initial last, sometimes you pull leather over it and say, "Oh, it's still going to look too thick.

I want to bring this down a little bit."

And I say for consumers who are looking at shoes with wide foot, I always look at the bottom and you want to make sure that there's enough space in here.

Like when we look at this Roger Vivier space you're gonna see it's very narrow and probably not what a woman's foot looks like today.

So here I just want to show that this is the drawing of the design.

This is the drawing on the last.

And this is basically showing the technician the proportion that I want.

So you could take that, put it on the paper, add the seam allowances, make this pattern yourself.

But when you're working for corporate companies, they'll have either masking tape or kind of a sleeve of plastic where you can draw all of the uppers on it pretty quickly and they sort of take it from there for you.

But I think it's important to show them sort of the proportion of your design that you want.

Peggy: So when I look at a shoe and it's my correct size, it's not--if it works or not, has nothing to do with the style of the shoe, it's simply the last itself.

Diana: And if that last is good for your foot, right.

Peggy: So once I find a shoe that I like, a company-- Diana: Hopefully they continue the same fit for you.

Peggy: Yes, yes, because I do notice that works, but you've said some names that are very good.

Like, I have wide feet.

And you mentioned Ferragamo has widths.

Diana: It's known for a lot of widths.

Peggy: And I didn't even know that.

So that is helpful to know a little bit about those designers and to kind of who their target audience is, so we can go there.

Because there's nothing better than comfortable shoes, and nothing worse than uncomfortable shoes.

All right, well, I appreciate all this information.

This is like my dress form.

Diana: I brought these today specifically to show this is a last with this T-strap upper.

And this shoe is the exact same upper shape with just a platform added.

So let's say you wanted this sandal without a platform higher, you're gonna have a much higher pitch.

But if you have a platform, you're basically just raising this shoe without changing the pitch of the back of the foot.

Peggy: So these two are exactly the same shoe?

Diana: It's the same last and the same upper, but this has a platform and this does not.

So when you see Hollywood actresses and they have their ball gowns, I don't know, for the Oscars, and they have large platforms, it's because their foot is not being inclined more and they're going to be much more comfortable with the platform than without it.

Peggy: So we know shoes are somewhat uncomfortable.

We're just trying to do the best we can to make them comfortable so this is-- the platform is the way to do that?

Diana: It's a possibility but it's also just to show, like, if you have this last we could add a-- with the sole you could add a welt sole to it, you could add a rubber sole to it.

You could do, you know, you could do a lot of things just with this one base of the shoe.

So that's why they say the last must come first.

Peggy: I love that, "The last must come first."

That's a great way to sum it up.

So we get into the pretty stuff.

Or the history, more the history.

Diana: Well, I wanted to focus on two designers.

I used to design shoes for Dior, but I've always been an enormous fan of Roger Vivier and Charles Jourdan.

And Roger Vivier was famous for designing for Dior, 1953 to 1963, also for Yves Saint Laurent, and Charles Jourdan designed at Dior after him.

And the thing that was interesting is Roger Vivier was the designer and he started, he did a lot of innovations like the stiletto by adding a steel rod inside the heel so that it could be much thinner.

He invented this famous comma heel.

He invented the over-the-knee boots made famous by Brigitte Bardot.

And the Pilgrim shoe, which was made famous by Catherine Deneuve in the film "Belle de Jour."

And that shoe is still being made by the Roger Vivier brand today, which was bought by Diego Della Valle.

And the thing about Roger Vivier, he worked hand in hand with Charles Jourdan and he took these haute couture shoes which are handmade shoes for the luxury goods world and Charles Jourdan was the manufacturer.

So Roger Vivier was the innovator with the design where Charles Jourdan was the innovator with the production.

So he was the first one to machine produce luxury shoes to bridge the quantity and scale.

So he was, and also he was an amazing designer on his own.

He had a factory in Romans where the archive is.

Today we have this beautiful shoe from the University of North Texas archive which we are lucky to have.

And this is fun, I'm putting on gloves because when you borrow any shoe from a museum, they don't want you to touch the textile.

But this is a really-- he, if you go to any Dior exhibit, you're going to see these maximalist embroideries, these beautiful architectural shapes.

Like I said, he started at Dior in '53 which, you know, the whole new look had sprung and he's doing these exquisite shoes to match that.

So he was the first one to use these kind of maximalist incredible embroideries on shoes.

And if you look at the bottom, you see how minuscule the sole is for this shoe.

Peggy: It's little, tiny.

Diana: Yeah, but this is kind of a great example of his embroidery.

Again, this was made in the Charles Jourdan factory.

He was also known for using interesting materials, plexiglass, lucite, the crazy embroideries, glass.

This is an example of a Charles Jourdan shoe.

After Roger Vivier left Dior, he was the designer there and he also has a very refined hand but his own collection in the '70s he was much more bold, much more graphic.

He collaborated with Guy Bourdin who's a photographer.

So they started using fashion photographer with surrealistic photography to help with the branding.

So he was about modernity, branding, licensing, and like I said, he was the innovator behind the production of the luxury shoes.

And still these, how do you say, the lasts and the feeling of these shoes you can still find in the Dior shoes today.

Peggy: Well, it's interesting to me as we've talked about clothing and how it's gone from haute couture to couture to mass, ready-to-wear, shoes have done the same thing.

And it's simply to get the designers' feeling, emotion, out to the masses, to bring the price down or to figure out how to bring the price down so that everybody can benefit from those shoes.

And I think that's really exciting because so many of us will never get to Paris or will never get to experience that.

Diana: Well, one time I was in Paris, I read in "Elle" magazine, which in Paris comes out weekly, and I read that Roger Vivier, who was in his 70s, designed this shoe for a high street mass brand.

So I ran to Rue Rivoli, to this store called Myrys specifically to buy this shoe.

And this is very indicative of his lines of the shoe but done in a really cool, more modern way so I went there to buy this shoe and he was sort of showing everybody, "Look, I still have it and I can even do something amazing for a high street brand."

Peggy: And so this whole entire base is plexi.

Diana: Right, which is amazing.

Peggy: And is it taken-- the last is still considered, it's still there.

This is just what's attached to the bottom of it.

Diana: Right, right.

Peggy: Yeah, that's incredible.

Is it comfortable?

Diana: Oh, it's fantastic.

And also this shoe by Jourdan, I should just say, this shoe is from, I would say, '60s, '70s, and this is using plastic, and we just sort of take that for granted today because plastic, they're using it again in sandals.

But these gentlemen, you know, were the first one to be experimenting with these new, fun materials.

Peggy: And about what year was this?

Diana: This one?

Peggy: Yeah.

Diana: This would be '90s, late '90s.

Peggy: Okay, all right.

So yeah, lots changed in all those years.

Because now it's all about the heel.

The heels are like-- Diana: And sneakers.

Peggy: Yeah, shh.

Diana: Yeah, but I mean, this is more specifically about luxury shoes.

Another thing, Vivier had designed, sorry, some iconic, other iconic things, which one included these shoes for the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II, and designed by Vivier, but made by Delman, which was a British producer.

And they questioned her about the shoe, and she said, "Well, my mother wore Vivier shoes to the coronation of King George."

And Queen Elizabeth's shoe, they had a fleur-de-lis, which was also on the state crown.

Her shoes are encrusted in real rubies.

And both of them had secret platforms put into the shoe because they were going to be on their feet for the service for the entire day.

So this shoe, I think, is in an archive somewhere at the castle and they're not-- no one is really clear what happened to this pair of shoes, but he was known for that as well.

Peggy: So there was padding put in to--for comfort?

Diana: Right, right, so you can add an additional comfort into the shoe before it's lasted, because when you add, let's say you buy a padding in a drug store, it's not accounting, you know, it's going to smush your foot in.

So you can add, you know, more padding to a shoe if people would do it to make a higher heel more comfortable.

Peggy: Why don't they do that more?

Diana: I think, again, why are we paying so much?

You know, because it's another mold to add to the cost.

Peggy: Oh, sure, sure, sure.

Diana: Prada has done it a lot though, just so you know.

Peggy: Sure, thank you for that tip.

Diana: I know.

This is just an example of some of the photography that Charles Jourdan used with Guy Bourdin, who's a very famous photographer, art director in Paris.

So he was sort of using fashion photographer for branding.

I brought some of these other shoes.

I brought this.

Peggy: This is really fun to see all these shoes.

Diana: Yeah, this is a shoe from when I was designing shoes at Gucci and I didn't design this one but it was from the same time but I brought it because it's showing this maximalist embroidery and a last which is very much reflective of the last Roger Vivier designed.

So this is kind of a modern version echoing that.

And then when I worked-- Peggy: So slow down one second, I wanna ask you about this shoe.

How did you start designing shoes?

Diana: I worked at Calvin Klein as an underwear designer.

I studied clothing design and he said, "Diana, I remember there were two shoe sketches in your book.

I want you to go design some shoes."

So there was a license with Joan & David, and I went to their factories.

Peggy: I know Joan & David.

Their shoes are wonderful.

I probably have shoes you might have designed.

Diana: But it was Calvin Klein made by Joan & David.

Peggy: Oh interesting.

Diana: Yes, so after that I was-- I worked for Calvin Klein for 7 years and we had-- then the license changed to Diego Della Valle who makes Tod's, who owns Roger Vivier brand today.

And so they would say, "Go make the last," "Go make the heel."

So it became more and more technical, which for a designer is great, the more technically-- technical things that you know, the better designer, I think, because then you can manipulate what you know into something else.

Peggy: So that was your first experience making shoes, designing shoes?

Diana: Right, it was for Calvin-- Peggy: And was there just a lot to learn?

That's a masterpiece of understatement, probably.

Diana: No, no, I think that, let's say you're designing a dress.

Like, you're a clothing person, you make the patterns, and you kinda go, oh, it's just like clothing.

So okay, I want this sole about this thick.

You do all the technical drawings.

I also always loved shoes.

Also as a shoe designer, for me, you know, if you have a high heel on, you want your foot strapped in, you know.

So I think for a female to design for females, you want to think about what's comfortable.

If you're wearing this high heel, you know, you want your foot strapped in so that you're safe, basically.

And you walk and you look elegant and all of those things.

Peggy: But clearly those shoes did very well for Calvin Klein.

Diana: Yeah, it was good.

It was a great time.

Peggy: And what made you go to another place?

Not that it was anything bad or good, but what caused a change?

Did you just say, "I need to do something different?"

Diana: No, I was poached by Dior.

They said, "Oh, we want you to interview for a job.

We have a new creative director."

And I didn't know-- it was between three creative directors.

It ended up being John Galliano.

And so I thought, "I want to move to Paris.

I want to work for Dior.

I want to design shoes for Dior like Vivier," so I moved there.

This was the first shoe.

This is a proto that is not in good shape.

This is the first prototype.

It's the first shoe that I designed for Galliano's, one of the first runway shoes, so I brought that.

And also because it has kind of a cool sole.

Peggy: It's beautiful.

Diana: This is a shoe-- most shoes have a lot of reinforcement in the toe but because this is a transparent lace shoe where the lace is by Solstiss who I know that you know from New York.

This has, like, less reinforcement because you want to keep the delicacy.

But it also, you know, when you're designing for a house like this, you want this shoe to epitomize what the house stands for.

So this is sort of like in the Vivier mode, but it's a more modern, it's the modern version.

Peggy: It's just incredible.

Diana: And this was a show for Galliano again, where we were using plastics and the lacquered heel.

And I brought this because the sole shape is just very interesting with the wedge and it was a Chinese theme for the fashion show.

And I just brought this because you are always asking me why shoes cost so much and this has a heel that is very complicated.

You draw it, it's, you know, digitalized, then you have all of the sizes.

There's a degrade painted finish.

So all of these things add to the price.

Peggy: So I didn't realize, see, when I look at something like this, I can really see that a lot of time and effort has to go into create that.

I can't say thanks enough for just your knowledge.

There's so much in that brain of yours that is just incredible.

Diana: Thank you for having me.

Peggy: And all those years' experience.

How many years designing shoes now?

Diana: Oh, I shouldn't date myself.

Peggy: Don't do it.

Over 20.

Diana: It's been a while, for sure.

Thank you so much, Peggy.

Peggy: Diana, thank you so much.

Next time on "Fit 2 Stitch," we'll take a look at the evolution of couture and the designers that influenced that evolution, such as Victor Costa.

We'll also dive into the details that make the difference.

Bias cuts, fusible interfacing, seam allowances, and more.

Join us right here on "Fit 2 Stitch."

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ announcer: "Fit 2 Stitch" is made possible by Kai Scissors.

♪♪♪ Reliable Corporation.

♪♪♪ Bennos Buttons.

♪♪♪ Plano Sewing Center.

♪♪♪ Elliott Berman Textiles.

♪♪♪ And WAWAK Sewing Supplies.

♪♪♪ announcer: To order a 4-DVD set of "Fit 2 Stitch" Series 14, please visit our website at fit2stitch.com.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪