Now the 490.

With Gretchen de Bakker might kill them.

And Kevin Mullin was welcome back into the 419 powered by CTE.

I'm Kevin Mullin.

Gretchen de Becker.

Matt Killam is out today.

Yes.

He just couldn't handle the weight of of being me.

He knew that once he heard your voice again.

Yeah, he was out.

After a week of you being gone and also having to suffer through his voice.

Mostly that he was going to just feel a kind of way.

And so he decided to stay home.

It was like it.

Was what I was was what the text said.

It was like a couple of days.

It was a couple of days.

He'll be fine.

He'll be fine.

He needs to know that he's welcome to come back.

And I did get some feedback, so, when I was with the Mud Hens, I was the announcer for the mountains for eight years.

I would take a day off or I'd miss a game, and I would get texts from fans saying like, this guy's terrible.

And I'm like, I know who's filling in for me.

Yeah.

They're terrible.

They're great.

Yeah, right.

But I but people don't like change.

No.

I got messages from several people that the shows were great.

Well, the interesting.

Thing is I expect to be like, oh, this isn't the same.

No, no.

No, no, it's because it's not.

No, no, it's nothing like what you bring to the show.

It's just it's just literally this is the only thing.

The only thing you bring to the show is that you can.

You have that thing in your ear.

And you have skill in speaking.

And so you can't stop ever.

You could say, like, I would.

Have been happy with that.

The time is going to be right, or you're talking to the producer or anything.

And so when he has to do that, it makes him.

Yeah, panicked.

And then I say, I'll do it.

And he's like, you know, I'll do it.

You know, I wasn't intending for this to be a, the only thing you bring to the show.

You know, I'm kidding.

Yeah.

I think it works best when we're still here.

That's right.

It's good to know that it's still enjoyable when one of us is gone.

That's right.

a great show today.

Wellness Wednesday, presented by Work spring.

We've got, Andy Springer.

Yep.

He's back.

He's going to be back on the program.

Second time on the show.

He's still three away from getting a jacket.

We have to end this season before we get to five because we don't have jackets in the budget.

No jacket.

But, And then Jon Jones.

He's going to be with us.

John is the CEO of Hope Toledo.

And a good friend.

I'm excited, for him to come on, we're going to be talking about, gaps.

We're going to be talking about equity gaps in training, in the workforce, in education.

And we'll talk about, unconscious bias in all of those things as well.

I'm excited to hear Andy's perspective on the training side as it relates to workforce development and what they're doing at work.

Spring.

And then certainly, John, and the work they do and hope.

Toledo.

Absolutely.

You know, the there's a lot of conversations happening in our community about about kids and youth and parents and all of this.

I know we'll talk to John a little bit about that.

But the reality is, and I, this is not a controversial statement.

It all starts with education, right?

And when we get our kids ready for school, when we get our kids successful in school, it sets them up on a on a different trajectory.

And the work that John and Hope Toledo are doing is really important.

And so I'm excited to get an update from him on what's going on.

Yeah.

He was a guest on our podcast.

A year and a half or two years ago.

But we've never we don't think we've had him on on our show here.

And yet so excited to get an update.

And the connectivity between workforce and education obviously is something we'll discuss.

Perfect.

All right.

Let's take a break.

When we come back, we will talk to Andy Springer and dive into our topic here on a Wellness Wednesday presented by work saying we're we're back on the 419.

Support for the 419 comes from which row wealth management, where we understand that your financial path is pers advisory services are offered through Capital Investment Advisory Services LLC, securities offered through Capital Investment Group member Finra and SIPC.

More information at Retro advisors.com.

The 419, powered by GT is made possible in part by supporters like you.

Thank you.

Welcome back into the 419 powered by GT.

It is a Wellness Wednesday presented by Work Spring.

We're joined once again by Andy Springer from Work Spring.

Andy, thanks for being here.

Absolutely.

Thanks for having.

You are remind getting your title.

I know it's something to do with training, but you are the senior director of Global and Workforce.

Continue.

Yes.

Training?

Yep.

Yes.

Yes, something like that.

You nailed it right there.

Perfect.

Yeah.

Learning the business.

So learning.

Title.

Oh, God.

I liked wine, but.

I like yours better.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's hard to get on a business card, though.

Yeah, it would be.

A little.

11 by.

Seven.

I like it, though.

I used to do that, actually.

I used to have a business card that was the size of a piece of paper.

I go into businesses, I pull it out from my backpack and be like, Mandy Springer, I'm here too.

And it was when I was.

Like, oh.

Yeah.

It's they did.

They had one, one secretary or administrator.

She looked at me and she goes, really?

I go, really well.

It just happened this.

That.

Just that just happened.

This is what we're doing.

Yes.

This is what we're doing.

Get on board.

No, that is not like it.

Okay.

All right, so topic of the day is, is is gaps.

Equity gaps.

Unconscious bias gaps, certainly as it relates to training.

I think there's two sides of this.

Right.

So there's a certainly a training side of this to address bias, to address unconscious bias.

But my guess is there's probably also gaps and bias in the trainings we have.

Oh, absolutely.

And those gaps I mean, I was I was thinking about this a lot prior to coming here.

And, we all have gaps and you can you can reframe them to be weaknesses or things that we need to work on or specific skills that we need to develop.

You know, in training, for example.

But again, unconscious conscious bias, there's that gap there.

And when there's that gap there, when, you know, you tend to do better.

So when you know of your training gap, let's say it's a skill that you need to do for for your job.

Well then you try and do better and you try to learn about that gap too close to bridge the gap between unconscious and conscious.

But you don't know what you don't.

Know, and you don't know what you don't know.

And that comes with experience.

With classes, it can come with a lot of very, variables.

Is there any workforce that should not have bias training?

None that come to mind.

Okay.

Again, what is bias?

I like to I heard a trainer talk about bias, and he basically said bias is about preference.

We all have preferences.

Like I was thinking of Ohio in Michigan, for example.

I don't know who do you root for, Ohio State or Michigan?

Neither during the big game.

Same, neither.

Notre Dame, Notre Dame okay.

That's always the third Packer.

So that's.

What disasters.

Are.

Why it's understanding the why.

Why do I prefer this.

You know for example when it comes to training or performance skills.

Me, myself, I love public speaking, I love training, I love teaching and I also love learning.

My least favorite thing to do, and I still do it, of course, because you have to is paperwork.

Like the logistical side of things sometimes.

Yeah.

And so I need to bump up my skill to close that gap.

And so it's I mean, I, I want to push back a little bit.

I mean, I certainly get that bias is preference.

But I think when it comes to, When it comes to people.

Right.

I think that there's this unconscious bias is not an unconscious preference.

Right.

I think there are certainly systems in place, that I just saw something over the weekend about, CPR training.

Yes.

And that they're now making the, the dummies, that there's a company that's making female dummies with a bra so that when you remove and they're realistic, right.

When you take the shirt and you start doing it, it's like, well, no, you also have to remove the bra.

Like that has to happen, right?

That's what you do.

But it's this idea that people don't know.

People are nervous, people are shy, people are embarrassed.

Like, but it's like, no, no, no, there's a there's a bias there in the way we do training on CPR right now that we've got a gender neutral dummy that doesn't actually help anybody.

And so acknowledging some of that and say, no, no, no, we got to change the way we do this.

We need to be, more intentional in training to real life situations rather than just we gotta do training.

Let's let's create a training.

Let's say we've done it.

It's what are the actual outcomes and are we actually measuring?

Did this training achieve those outcomes.

And that's where I mean isn't that what we all want in training is how does this apply to my real life.

Yeah.

And when it's too generic, then people tend to resist it because they want the specificity for that.

What role does work sprint play in helping organizations identify gaps?

Right.

Identify whether it be bias, whether it be gaps in training for their employees.

How does where do you guys fall in line on that?

Sure.

And I think, Gretchen, you just said it just a little bit ago is, there's a education that's required.

Education is paramount.

And so we have, like, defining respect and civility in the workplace, which helps discuss about conscious and unconscious bias, you know, and that, just like you said, not just preference.

That's an overgeneralization, but certainly, to make you aware that all of us want respect.

But respect is a very loaded word.

Yeah, it's very subjective.

So we have to be aware of how you view respect, you know, versus how you view respect.

Right.

And I have to be empathetic enough to be able to adapt and present that.

And if you have a problem, I mean, not not not a problem.

But what sometimes you hear is when you're trying to train people unconscious bias or even discuss it, you know, if there's a supervisor that just so happens just just randomly always picks the man in the work place to do this, to head this committee, whatever.

And as I've experienced many, many times as the only woman in the room, would you take notes?

Would you take the notes in the meeting?

Right to the to the woman?

That's an.

Oh, right.

And so when you don't have that, if someone doesn't draw your attention to that, you that person may never know it.

But also, I think people feel like they don't want to be that person.

They don't want it to be punitive towards the person.

Right.

That's maybe doing that.

Maybe they truly believe this is a guy that just doesn't understand that that's potentially sexist, right?

Yeah.

And so how do you address that?

How do you address it?

What do you do to try to make sure that's not happening as an employer?

And what would you suggest an employee do in a situation like that?

For me, kind of boils down to perspective taking.

And for instance, the person that truly believes that, you know, a female should be taking the notes because that's, that's their role.

Right.

I usually try to see have them see it from the perspective of their daughter or their mother or their grandmother.

Would you tell your grandmother that she had to be this way.

That type of thing.

So I would take it from a perspective taking angle.

But also times change.

Right.

How do you address a situation where, let's say maybe you're maybe your company's been around 50 years, 100 years, but now your workforce is 18, 19 and 20 year olds that are completely different than you as a, as a manager or a founder of the company.

What about that gap?

What how how can you, figure out if the trainings that you're doing, you know, maybe some old school PowerPoint or something is getting through to the people that you're actually trying to train because they are different from you?

Absolutely.

And every generation has those tendencies to be a little different.

But again, that's, that's was boiled down to communication, finding someone and just saying, listen, I don't know what I don't know.

And let's say I'm the senior.

And I have some 20 year old in front of me.

Right.

I don't know what you know.

All right.

So let's talk.

What how do you like to receive information.

How can I communicate with you better.

And that may be just really the beginning because so many people I think say look, I've been here and you're going to learn this the way I learned it right back in my day kind of phraseology.

Right.

And I usually what I tell people in classes usually is, who wouldn't want to coach, like if you had a, if you were in the school of hard knocks and you actually learned when you had no support and you just had to figure it out.

Yeah.

Looking back, when don't you want someone to show you.

Right.

And then usually I get a couple of like, yeah, well then you're that you're going to be that person for them.

It's a quick, it's funny how quickly we slip into that.

I don't know how old you are, but.

And I'm 47 I think I'm the oldest at this table.

But you find all of a sudden, out of nowhere that you're the one saying things like that.

You're like, back in my day.

Oh, yeah.

I just said this week, like my oldest son, I was like.

When I was a teenager, I was like, wait, what just happened?

Yeah.

I mean.

I looked in the mirror and I was like, dad, is that you?

You know, I'm interested.

Great.

You're talking about kind of the gap, right?

been around for a hundred years training employees for all of that time.

But now you've got 18, 19, 20 year olds, in this generation coming into the workforce.

Yeah.

Our training's the way we train employees changing.

Right.

So the, the power PowerPoint the hey here's a, here's a manual.

Go home and read it.

Right.

My guess is that's not going to be effective today.

Are we getting to more micro learning quicker.

Send them to YouTube.

But certainly yeah.

No we are and we know there's, depends on the audience, depends on what the company wants us to train them on.

And there's that gap there.

And so we need to learn how to speak their language.

I usually say, though, behavior has no age.

Behavior is timeless.

Like as far as the emotions that we feel.

You just need to figure out okay.

What's your learning style.

How do you like to receive information.

What speaks to you.

What's your role.

What don't you know that you think you know.

And that's a whole nother challenge because then you have to convince them and get them to buy in.

But what it boils down to again is just communicating, talking, talking at their level, but also raising the bar for them to come to my level two, because, I mean, it's a bridge.

Sure.

So we need to come together to construct this bridge and, and be able to meet in the middle.

What do you mean when we talk about relationship bias at work, what does that mean?

Relationship bias?

It could be a couple things.

For example, if you and I were best friends.

And.

Which we can be if we want.

I'm.

I'm open.

I'm absolutely what you want.

I want this a best.

Friend to.

Be your best friend.

So, Gretchen, you'd get invited to her house for parties?

Yeah.

Yes.

Kevin's okay.

Which I actually invited.

I heard this is.

This goes a long way in kind of a relationship bias, right?

So let's say, I'm invited to your house with best friends, and it's between Kevin and I to get a promotion.

Obviously.

You.

Yeah, obviously.

I mean, that was even before you gave.

But that's our relationship bias, right?

Okay.

For me.

Okay.

Over.

Kevin.

For various.

Now it could be legitimate.

Maybe I have better education or I've been in the game longer or experience whatever it is.

But if it's solely based on your personal feelings about me versus Kevin.

Right.

Boom.

Right there.

That's that's a red flag, okay.

Because in that.

But let's switch the roles.

Let's say I try to use our relationship to get something from you.

Well that's that's relationship bias.

I'm trying to use our relationship to better myself.

That's not that's not good.

Right.

And so that's, that's a very as soon as you said a that's what first popped in my mind.

Got it was what's our relationship to each other.

I'm curious.

We're talking about Andy Springer with work spring senior director of global training okay.

And is this like.

Thinking in the brain?

Yes, yes.

That's right.

We're trying to take over the world.

When we're you know, we're talking about, the equity gaps.

We're talking about relationship bias.

We're talking about workforce and and changes in generation.

I'm I'm curious, as an employee, what advice you have for somebody that is seeing gaps in front of them is seeing challenges or hurdles and saying, I don't know how to do this.

What's the right way for them to ask their employer for that training?

Or to it, you know, if, hey, this is this is a skill set that would really benefit me in my role.

That's I'd like my employer to, to pay for it.

Right.

Yeah.

How do I, how do I go about opening that door to that conversation with my boss.

I would first try and figure out what type of boss you have.

Are they more about people or are they more about task.

Because if they're more about tasks and they're more about the skill of making the company better, then you sell it to them.

With how this investment will make my productivity increase by this much.

And to a person that values that, they're gonna see the value and they're gonna go boom.

Got it.

Yeah.

But if I'm dealing with someone on a personal level, I kind of do what you just said.

Listen, I see this gap and I want to do better.

How?

How can we do that?

And now I give it to you.

But if you're a people person, you're going to be with me.

They're going to be like, oh, I like this person because they're taking they're courageous and they're they're owning their vulnerability, which a lot of people nowadays like that, they're not, you know, you, as I say, right?

Taskmaster, it's no, they want they want you to see your own gap because that shows growth, that shows maturity, that shows a willingness, a willingness to admit that I don't know at all.

Yeah.

When you when, when when people when companies when organizations are members of work.

Spring is basically what just happened here.

How it works.

They're at the office.

They're at the company talking about something.

There's this issue.

Someone's come to us, with wanting this.

Let me reach out to work.

Spring.

They call you.

And then these are the kinds of recommendations about how they can become educated, a training that can happen.

You guys can put together a training for them.

Is that generally how the generally program works?

Yeah, that's generally the conversation we have.

And do you have like sort of banked, you know, videos or trainings or things you guys turn to or is it is it are they unique problems that have to you have to dig in and figure out what to do?

Or is it both?

Both.

Yeah.

That's certainly a question we asked them.

And I mean, we see similarities in companies, not problems, but things they want to work on.

We see similarities, but there's always slight deviations and those like deviations is through the conversation.

Then we kind of customize, what's needed now.

We do, of course, have our own stable or stable of courses in the background and our own courses that you can take at work, spring those type of things.

But truly, if there's a need, someone wants to express it.

So we just ask them what they need.

What's what's the next upcoming training that you're working on that people can can come in and be a part of?

And, well, today I have three trainings, virtually 1 to 1 trainings.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

And it's about it's about trust building and things like that.

And then, I have what do I have to I basically eight different classes this week, both virtual and in-person.

Well, that's a lot of it from the a lot of instructor.

Global.

Of course.

Yeah.

I'm busy.

You know, on my private jet, there's a. Lot of people.

That I fly around everywhere.

But it's right.

My youngest son my eight year old yesterday, he goes, yeah, what if I invented teleportation?

I was like.

Great.

Okay.

Like, there you go.

So I'm looking forward to that because then I can get to other places.

That's right.

We would just use that advancement to.

Work, push back and and say that you would not definitely use teleportation to get to work quicker.

I would just use.

No, the answer to that is no.

You would use it to like get to vacation.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

Oh, like I use it all the time.

Okay, okay.

For multipurpose.

Yeah.

I have no idea where I would land.

Got it.

And if you want more information on works for it.

And where can they find it?

They can find it work.

Springborg.

Or they could call, I, I don't know if I want to give up my personal, so I. Wouldn't do that.

Okay.

No.

Works for you.

Don't start.

There.

Your best friend already has.

Yeah.

That's right, that's right.

If they really want, they can.

Springer with work.

Spring.

Thank you so much to take a break.

When we come back, we'll have Jon Jones from Hope Toledo.

To me, community means connecting to others.

I'm Danny Miller and welcome to the point.

I mean, yes, yes, we're a community committed to education.

Discover new ideas, dive into exciting subjects, and engage with the world around you.

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Welcome back to the 419 powered by GT.

It's Wellness Wednesday presented by Works Right.

And we're joined now by John.

Jones in.

Toledo.

John, you were my mystery guest on the podcast.

True last year.

No, I think I. I think you were season.

One.

Yes.

So.

Okay.

You are.

I'm over do.

Original.

Original guest.

Yeah.

Original mystery.

Guest.

And then I am going to be I was I was out last week.

I'm going to be out again.

And you're actually going to be a fill in host.

Look at that for us.

And if you do?

Well, if I do, maybe you could be permanently in this post if you want.

Look at that, I tell.

I'm right here.

He's right here.

I'm like, you want to talk about relationship bias?

I actually it could be it could be any one of us.

You could replace any one of us.

Oh, man, I don't like that.

That makes me nervous because John had.

You have an incredible voice.

He does.

It's it's a preaching.

That's right to you are also is that Reverend Reverend Jesse Owens is the I. I joke with, you know, Andy and his grand title, but you have worked hard and earned the title of.

Reverend.

John C Jones.

That is a true Esquire.

And that's following in the family footsteps.

Yes, grandmother.

Yep.

Pastor.

Dad is pastor.

So we're they're my brothers in ministry as well.

And your dad just celebrated a big milestone.

Did in know.

189.

89 years old.

That's a. Big one.

He's still kicking.

Did you guys have a party?

Party at the house?

Yes, that's about the party.

The place?

Yeah.

Was the rager all nighter?

You're wrong.

So, John nine 4040.

That means go to the bathroom.

Exactly, exactly.

Wait, that's the same as 56.

Wait.

Yes.

Tell us a little bit about Hope Toledo.

I think many, many people have heard of Hope Toledo.

Maybe some people haven't, but absolutely.

Just give us a little bit of a brief history, and then we'll kind of start talking about what's going on now.

So so hope Toledo Focus is on education, right so early childhood post-secondary were our original sort of anchors, if I can call it.

I like to call them the bookends.

And so in having that space, we we've done some really good work.

We're really thrilled.

The mission is actually to support and ensure high quality education from birth to career.

And the focus is on preschool, post-secondary trade school with the goal of creating economic empowerment for all of our families.

Right.

So at the end of the day, we believe education is the tool that can help families, help communities get to better economic outcomes.

So it's an educational piece, obviously, and we really believe even more so.

Post-secondary is wonderful.

We believe even more so that if you start a kid early and start off strong, it creates long term educational benefits.

Why?

Why do you believe that?

Right.

Give me give me some data points that back up that believe.

That's real good.

So there's there's a ton of data out there.

And I would encourage everybody go research.

Just go and look at early education returns results.

You can you can find it.

Stuff pops up.

But what we know is a few things that are true from an economic perspective.

For every dollar invested in preschool or early childhood, particularly high quality.

But for every dollar invested, there is at minimum a 7 to $10 return.

For every dollar there's.

There's quite literally correct me if I'm wrong.

Yep.

No data to suggest that interventions in a child's life between the ages of zero and five has any adverse, detrimental, or negative effect on anyone, on the person, on their family, on the economy, on their future job, on their life in general.

Like there's there's literally nothing that suggests that.

And very rarely do I make an absolute state.

Right.

But in this and.

There's so few things we can do that about, can.

Say, right, there is no data, no research, no nothing that says if you invest in a child's life, you get nothing back.

Right?

Oh, we said like, I mean, every six months, right.

You watch, you know, you watch the news and every six months you're going to find out that, you know, milk cures cancer.

Milk causes cancer.

Yep.

Milk is the, you know, greatest thing for weight loss.

Absolutely.

Milk is why you're gaining.

Weight, right?

Like you're gonna find something there.

Doesn't matter what it is, right?

It's you're going to have you're going to have this is an area where there really is no both sides.

I think it was there was a woman from the Baynham.

Yeah.

Radium Foundation came in in town at a rotary meeting.

In a. Meeting?

But had said, and I'm going to get the numbers wrong here, you'll get them right that the state of Ohio spends X number of billions of dollars absolutely every year on, On basically kids that aren't ready for kindergarten, kids that aren't ready for education, which is the exact same amount of money it would cost for us to actually educate, actually education.

So when you look at, the dollars that are spent and we've done this research and so you can fluctuate on a few numbers, but if you just think about incarceration alone.

Right.

So we spend the state of Ohio spends approximately $30,000 and maybe a little bit more, but $30,000 per year per person that we incarcerate on juvenile justice.

There's a lot of conversation about kids and community and wild it out and all that stuff.

But on juvenile justice, it ranges anywhere between 60 and $80,000, maybe a little bit more per kid per year.

Because obviously children, younger kids, the different kinds of spaces, you can't cram them all in one space.

That's the reason why it costs more 60 to $80,000.

Juvenile justice to educate a child in early childhood.

It costs right now approximately $15,000 per year per kid.

In early childhood, we would rat incarcerate with the hope of rehabilitating instead of policing the educational emphasis early in life and ensuring that.

And I absolutely take your point.

I do, I do and I do think it's true that that they're extremely negative outcomes without interventions starting at the age of 0 to 5, that's a possible outcome.

But I often hate the comparison.

It's not like if your kid doesn't go to high quality preschool that they're going to go to prison.

But there's there's so many more things that you can find out that they have some diagnosable issue.

You can find out that they have a they were exposed to lead.

You can find out that they have a speech impediment.

You can find out that they, have some sort of nutritional deficit.

You can find out that they have a problem with their vision.

You can find out that they have a problem with their hearing.

There's many there's dozens and dozens and dozens of things that could benefit a child.

If you have that level of early intervention in addition to going to prison.

And so here's the thing that drives me insane.

Yeah, literally drives me insane.

I can't stand it.

It makes me it makes me crazy because and, you know, I've told you, I've told you many times that when.

I'm the thing that makes you.

Crazy.

I told you many times that when I win the lottery, hopefully you're good.

You're good.

Go.

No need to worry.

It's going to happen.

I've got a whole plan right now.

I do buy lottery tickets.

But with.

We know this.

Yeah.

Why are we like this?

Why don't we have it?

Why?

Why doesn't it exist?

So there's I want to.

Universally.

I want to ask because there's I think there's two sides to this question that I want to make sure that I just leave you a chance to touch on.

Okay?

There's a there's a community side of why is just not available.

Yes.

And then there's also a family side of why are families not taking advantage of this.

So if if I as a parent know these things to be true.

Yes.

Why am I not 100% seeking this out?

So there's a why is the community not make this more readily available?

And why are families not seeking out?

So let's start with the family side.

And you just hit the nail on the head because what you said is, if I know this, why am I not seeking this out a lot of families.

Don't know.

They lost it.

Okay.

I don't know what they don't realize.

I think inherently there's a realization, okay, I need to get my kids education.

But we've in our in our country, we've said education starts at kindergarten.

That has been the traditional kind of conversation.

Right.

And when I say that, I mean it from this perspective, I believe and not all research.

I can't say all research will suggest this, but I, I believe parents are your first teacher, right.

Just inherently that's been that's been the belief since the inception of our country.

I mean, yes, farmers.

I mean, my father was born on a farm and grew up on a farm and went into the city of Topeka, Kansas, when he was six years old to start school and had just learned at home.

This has been happening to generations, 100%.

But but what we've now, we know is.

With the educational side and the economic side.

So with the workforce, we've brought parents out of the home into the workforce.

So it's easy to say, oh my gosh, parents should stay home and they should be teaching.

We're going to talk equity.

If the thought process is mom has to stay home and be the only teacher, okay, we had a problem in World War One when we needed workers.

And so you go all the way back to there and saying, hey, we brought parents out of the home and or do that.

Here's my here's my thing, though.

It's the educational component.

We can talk about that.

It's families understanding what this means.

So there is an awareness conversation that needs to happen.

There is also a community galvanization that has to happen at the same time.

And when I say that, it's not that our community does not in large ways recognize early childhood education is important, right?

But it's our pathway to get there.

Some people actually believe, well, the real answer is one parent needs to stay home.

Yeah.

Well, last I checked, if I'm trying to pay bills and have a home and just one car, not two cars, but if I want a home and a car, pay the bills.

And if phone.

Do all of that, a phone I want to have off.

And it's not amenities, it's necessities.

One income in the house does not suffice that because we aren't paying top to bottom what we should pay, and that's a whole nother, whole nother.

Hey, equity is just.

One aspect of this.

That's one aspect.

But when you think about the economic benefits, so we talk about community and what should they be doing and why haven't they?

I think we recognize that it's important, but what we haven't gotten around a table is to say, how can we do this in our community right now?

There are answers.

Public investment is one right that can do it.

But then you have to then move towards how do you effectuate it?

Who leads it?

Who runs it?

How do you make the awareness be what it needs to be across the entire community?

And I personally believe that we're light years closer.

Yeah, than where we were.

So that's a great thing.

You have people that.

So in response to Kevin's question, the first part was if people know it, they want to do it.

So then we address maybe they don't know it okay.

So I know it and I want to do it.

And then I go look up the price of it.

Now I need help with that okay.

And so talk about the cost of high quality early education.

And we don't need to get into it.

But just suffice it to say that the state of Ohio, as many states, have set up a system that rates the quality of the of the education that's provided.

It's not daycare.

Yes, it's education.

It's important.

And it's not.

It's not daycare, but it's one, two, three, four, five stars.

And you have to get accredited.

And certain number of teachers and your teachers have to have a certain level of education, all that affect the star level, the star at five being the highest metals.

Oh, okay.

Good.

From stars to metal.

So there's gold medal silver.

Got it.

Got that gold medal.

Gold silver bronze okay.

Right.

So they tried to sort of close that up but it's step up to quality is based off of those metals those ratings and the reimbursements that childcare centers can get.

So if I. Have access for dollars for parents to access those places.

If I have a one child that's three years old and I want to go to a gold star.

Yes.

Gold medal.

Gold gold medal.

Education space.

And I work a full time Monday through Friday job.

What's that going to cost me?

So the cost is going to be depending on my income.

So if I'm working and I'm over threshold where I cannot get publicly funded childcare access, it's going to cost me approximately 1250 bucks a month.

So approximately 15,000.

That's nothing.

Not nothing.

And that's going to be it'll fluctuate a little bit more.

And that's not to say the 15,000 is the true cost of a high quality experience.

True cost, high call experience could be as much as 18 or 20.

But the state right now reimburses, if I could say it that way.

Reimburses at a tune of $15,000 at gold medal centers so that means if I'm getting publicly funded reimbursement, the state does that based on an income threshold.

If I don't get that, the childcare centers have to provide the same rate.

So they can't say, I'm going to charge a private pay person more.

Or less.

Right.

So that 15,000 is wide set.

So then what does hope Toledo do 100 to.

Help with that.

So what we've done historically, is to help families get access to tuition credit.

So that's our that was our biggest thing.

And we got support from city County, a few other places to help do that in a demonstration model over the last four years.

Right.

And that means we've said to families, if you are earning up to 400% of federal poverty guideline, you're going to get something from us, right?

And it is structured that way.

So the more you make, the less you get from Toledo, because you should be putting some skin in the game, which makes our model a bit different from what other cities are doing.

Other cities are doing something similar.

We didn't go out there and reinvent the wheel.

So our tuition credit on average has been between 6000 to 6500 on average.

Some families make it more, some families make it less based on what they get.

And that is a critical space when I can provide almost half of what it is to paying out in early learning, it is a significant, help in my home so I can continue to do the things that I want to do.

We're talking with Jon Jones with Hope Toledo.

If folks are watching this and they're saying to themselves, I had to pay for my kids to get this.

Yeah, I don't, I'm not going to pay for somebody else's kids to get this.

Absolutely.

The reality is they are paying for it.

Yes.

They are, one way or the other.

You're going to pay for it one way or the other.

And what I encourage people to say, because particularly and I'm sensitive to this.

Right.

So my children, my my youngest is 17, right.

We've done this.

I'm not going back and getting no more babies.

We not doing I'm I'm.

But not announcing anything today.

I'm not okay.

Today.

I'm not announcing a thing today.

But but but at end of day, all of our community rises and or falls, right?

Based on how we support our children in these spaces.

And so at the end of the day, if we're able to say as a community, we see that the end result and what does it mean if I expend 30, 40, $50 a year in order to help support that initiative?

Right.

That's where this ultimately boils down.

I would love for us to be able to say, hey, there's a bunch of product money out here, you know, Ellen, if you're listening, please.

But John, he only has a trillion.

He only has a trillion.

He can't be expected.

And come on.

They can't do it.

But very seriously, it is a significant investment in our children, but it's also a significant investment in our future.

So for me, to those families, I say out loud, you've done it.

Yes.

You've taken care of your families.

Yes.

Wonderful.

But at the end of the day, you're going to need more children, more families to be able to access this education, because at the end of the day, I don't know who my doctor is going to be on the my mechanic's going to be right or going to be pulled together.

Jon Jones I hope.

Toledo, we're gonna take a break.

We come back, we're dive into our word.

Spring wellness Wednesday topic presented by work spring.

Talking about equity gaps.

Yeah.

Both in education, in training, in the workforce.

We're excited to continue that conversation with you.

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Welcome back into the 419 powered by GT.

It's Wellness Wednesday, presented by our friends at Work spring.

We're joined by John Jones with Hope Toledo.

John, the work you're doing with Hope Toledo is about bridging some educational gaps in our community, but those gaps exist in a lot of different spaces.

Talk to me about, let's let's talk about equity gaps in the workforce.

What I don't think for our our TV listeners.

Right.

So, you know, you and I look a little different.

There's some some some similarities and some differences.

Just a little, but I, you know, when we think about the workforce and we talk about, you know, generations of companies been around for 100 years, the workforce is changing in age.

The workforce is likely changing, in gender, the workforce is changing and race.

How does that, with with your work at Hope Toledo, how are you seeing that play out?

Where are you seeing gaps that still need to be addressed?

Yeah.

So that's a phenomenal question.

And I'm thrilled to be able to talk about this.

So this takes me back to some, Dr.. Right, right, right.

Because I've done this for a really long time.

So what I really want people to understand, number one, is diversity is automatically around you.

So those of us, those watching this is a diverse panel right here.

It's automatic.

If two people walk in a room they're automatically that room is automatically diverse.

I know people yell about oh my gosh what's diversity?

It's automatic.

You cannot help it.

Because what diversity literally means is different parts, different elements, blah blah blah blah blah.

When we look at access points and we look at what's going on in, in education and in our community, there are all over the place.

And those gaps are represented in what the usual suspects are, which people typically go to, which you've already done, race, gender, so on.

And so forth.

Those are typical gaps, but then you have to start looking at where are the other gaps.

You have families, individuals with disabilities, whether those be physical same disabilities or unseen disabilities, learning disabilities, things like that, that creates access gaps.

Right.

So I'm thinking about the learning space.

And we have this happen for our kids right now even in early childhood.

Right.

Children are.

And Gretchen, you so eloquently said it just a little bit ago, you can start to diagnose, dare I say, diagnose.

I better not say that you can start to pay attention to and see where learning disabilities may be showing up in children when you have them in a. Classroom.

Right?

Once you start to see that now, how do we address it?

So in our K-12 space, particularly even in our higher ed, you have things like IEPs, w an individualized education plan, you have five or fours.

You have various things that help and say, you know what, I need some accommodations.

Now, there may be some people out here who will yell, scream, kick and holler on accommodations.

In a previous life, I taught a couple college courses.

Had to deal with that, right?

Which means my one of the things one of the students I had to deal with is, is they had they need a little bit extra time to complete an exam, right?

Actually, once they got into it and started doing it, they really didn't use all that time.

But because of a learning disability, they needed to have that accommodation granted to them.

When we think about those access points, I want people to have the best shot to do what it is they need to do.

Now, I'm not saying that you have a timed exam for two hours and now I give you two months to finish it.

No, but there has to be some form to create next big word equity.

And equity literally means fairness.

And people get lost in this idea of equity, equality, this and the other.

I'm not trying to create the same space for us, right?

It would be great.

I want a fair space for us.

Whatever Kevin needs, whatever Gretchen needs, whatever John needs.

I want those things to be provided so that you have just as good a shot to achieve what you need to achieve as I do, based on where I am.

And people that say.

I'm so excited for where this is going.

You know, schools can't.

Schools and employers like this is just this is just too much.

We can't worry about all this equity stuff.

I don't, you know, I this lady just came back from maternity leave.

She's got to breastfeed.

Like, look, I can't like, I bet I'm going to supposed to find some room, but come on.

That's ridiculous.

She had a kid.

You know what I mean?

Like, so it.

I think that well-meaning people of all stripes have those thoughts sometimes.

So how did you combat that?

And it could be about anything.

It could be about sports.

It could be about the workforce.

It could be about education.

And I think from a bias perspective.

Right.

Like, I mean, I, I inevitably overlook the accommodations that I receive 100%, but I recognize the accommodations.

That somebody else see.

Right.

And so you think about the person who's the, the the person who's complaining about you having the time and the space to go breastfeed may also be going outside to smoke 15 minutes every and every day.

Here's an idea.

Put the breastfeeding and the smoking in the seat.

And see how that works out.

And I just thought of a good idea.

That's that's that's like that's the you know what I. Think that's when.

Moving to a particular community, but to the airport.

And we don't want to do that.

Right.

That's not good.

But I think to your point, that.

Is a good point.

And listening to Andy earlier.

Right.

And and as we walk through some of these things about bias, right, there's a little thing called confirmation bias.

People tend to track towards what they already believe.

Right.

And so if I'm already believing, well, I didn't have to do X, why should they get to do X?

That's going to create a problem.

But then I also want to reshape this word equity for us.

We see equity show up in a couple different places.

Every single person wants more equity in their home.

Most people, if they could get it.

If you offered me today, Kevin, an equity stake in your business, I'm taking it because I want to say I own part of it.

Yeah.

That that's literally where people are.

People want equity in every area of their life except when it comes to people.

Because there's a belief that if and I do, I don't want to say it, but I'm going to say, like, if I give you equity that that came from me.

Yes.

No taking or taking away my if you.

If you get equity.

Yes, it's coming from me.

I literally had a conversation with the person we were doing this work, in a previous, role that I had, and I had a person come up to me because we were starting to push real hard on, on this thing called equity in the workplace.

That person come up to me and said, you know, I, I get it, I understand it, but I feel like if these opportunities are given over here, then that's going to stop me from climbing this ladder that I'm on.

I'm on this trajectory and what that stops me from getting.

And I said, why?

Why would it stop you for someone else to be given the the an equitable, fair shot, a fair shot for a roll of advancement?

If you're the best qualified.

For it, I might mentally.

What I get was a white but and I don't blame, I don't I don't know.

I don't even know I don't real.

Talk.

But because I understood the conversation, because what it looks like is you're taking something from me and we've allowed that narrative to last way too long, because it's not about taking or granting it.

It's about saying, you know what?

You should have just as fair a shot as I do to get to X. I, I heard an economist years ago say this about the TV show Shark Tank.

Right.

So you've got, you know, these, you know, ultra wealthy investors sitting listening to small business owners pitch their idea and they come in and say, hey, John, this is my idea.

I've got this widget.

I'm looking for $200,000 for a 10%, you know, stake in my company.

Absolutely.

What the economists said is that every single person walking into that room, if they said, I'm seeking $0 for a 10% stake in my company, that is a good deal for every si one of them, every single.

Because giving that 10% equity to the shark improves the value of that business.

And I and I think that if we would take that approach, that, as it relates to diversity, as it relates to, equity.

Yeah.

That look, if you want a percentage stake in my company, John.

You got it.

Here.

Look at Kevin coming in hot with a good company and never know.

We're talking with Jon Jones from, Hope Toledo.

One of the things that, may be difficult for people.

I think that, you know, of course, that we, we have this fractured social media environment.

I see things like this all the time.

I see it in my work.

My did my, my real work during the day, in the criminal justice system.

But for somebody that is just learning about this or is just starting to really look around them to see what's happening in their daily lives, what can they look for to kind of see like, oh, wait.

And then how do they what would you suggest?

Or how do you address it?

Because as you know, John, someone that's been in the working in this in I hate saying the word space, but in this space for a long time you could be calling out people and talking to people and talking about it all day, every day and every single transaction you have.

Right?

There could be something, but you don't want to be necessary.

Okay.

So what what can people do?

What work should they be looking for?

What can they be trying to perceive?

And then what can they potentially do about it.

So so one of the things I say all the time is number one, the first and foremost people, every person has to be willing to do the work.

If I choose that, I'm going to walk in the space and I'm not whatever environment it is, and I'm not willing to do the work, then we're going to have a problem.

So in in a couple rooms here lately in our community, and it comes up.

And I think the conversation around training is critically important.

I'm a fan of training, but I'm a fan of good training.

I'm a fan of well-placed, well targeted training.

So let me be very clear.

And I'm gonna say this out loud and I know it'll be recorded and maybe played over and over and over again.

I'm not a fan of doing diversity training because the white board, the white guys in the office don't know what they're doing.

What does that do?

Think about what that does.

Right, right, right.

We think about diversity, equity, inclusion training.

When we think about it automatically people go to it's a white male problem.

I just did it a If.

I'm a white male.

Yeah I'm going to say why do I want to come in that room.

Everybody forgets about the fact that, you know, my daughter.

Let's just talk about it.

My daughters, my daughter's a basketball player.

If her and her girls all had on sweats, if two of them were not basketball players, they're going to automatically think they all are because of how they're dressed.

There's an automatic bias that we throw on people.

How do you get them out of that?

Number one, people got to be willing to do the work.

Number two, you got to then provide a, quote, training atmosphere that meets people where they are and does not vilify them coming in the door.

Right.

And so if I want people to look for something out in the community, the first thing I want to do is look around them.

If your room is all the same, I want you to start asking questions about why is the every room I go in?

Why is it all door?

What does it all look the same?

Then you start to ask yourself, okay, how do I make some changes?

Right in that room?

There's a lot more that's good.

I like to be said there.

No, I appreciate John.

John Jones with Hope Toledo.

All right, John, we got two minutes here.

Let's go.

Fire!

Here we go.

Now, time for Gretchen's wacky quiz.

I love when Matt's not here.

And I refuse to say it.

I refuse to say no, but you just did.

I know I did for.

Rapid fire questions for me.

Gretchen's going to have you describe Toledo in one word, and then you'll list the nine best things in Toledo.

That's the 419.

Which car would you most love to own?

A Corvette.

If you could have an unlimited supply of one thing, what would it be?

Gummy bears.

Ooh, nice.

Which conspiracy theory do you believe is true?

That professional sports is rigged.

You think it's true, John?

What would your secret spy name be?

Reverend double a reverend or Super Bowl tie?

Ooh.

Oh, yeah.

And it turns into an airplane or something and sends.

Me a. Helicopter.

Helicopter?

I like airplanes, I don't think, because I don't actually don't want one word.

Hey, what's the one word?

Hopeful.

Oh, I like that.

Okay.

What are your nine favorite things about Toledo?

It could be anything.

Art museum.

Got it.

Toledo Zoo.

Metro parks done.

Cultural is out the way, right?

Higher ed, the various communities have a bunch of different.

Yep.

The festivals.

Yep.

We are holy Toledo.

So all the churches.

Churches.

Right.

Two more to more.

Your wife, I better say that my wife.

Wife and my parents.

Parents.

There you.

Go.

Done.

The kids didn't make the list.

I love you though.

John Jones with Toledo.

If people want more information on Hope Toledo, where can they find that dot?

Hope-Toledo.org.

Please put hyphen there.

If you don't, you won't find it.

Well find us.

There you go.

You got a. Great show I. Love this.

Thank you so much, so much.

And we can see you again on Friday.

You're the best.

Okay.

All right.

We'll take a break.

We'll come back.

We'll wrap up this Wednesday edition of the 419.

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Spring.

Good show.

It's a. Great show.

Yeah.

Welcome back.

Thank you.

It's always nice to, talk to Andy Antigen.

He's always so thoughtful and, gives us a lot to think about.

I've looked up to John for a long time, and, I mean, I said at the beginning when he came on, he's got an incredible voice.

The the tone of it is wonderful, but the reality is what he says is what makes it great.

Yeah.

I love the work that he's doing with Hope Toledo.

He's such a champion for the community.

And and he, you know, I appreciate that he's comfortable standing in front of a room saying you guys aren't getting it right.

Challenging.

We can do better.

And he's in there, and he's not saying, like, you're not doing what you're saying.

We're not doing it well enough.

Let's do a better, So huge thanks to Andy Springer from Work Spring for joining us.

And of course, John Jones with Hope Toledo.

You can find out more information on them at Hope toledo.org.

If you missed any part of the show, you can catch it.

7 a.m.

on YouTube, 3 p.m.

on FM 91 in Toledo.

Brian Defiance of Lima, 6 p.m.

and connect channel 30.4 online 20 473 65 Morgan before one nine.

Of course, you can email the show for 198.org.

And because I was gone for a couple of days, I also I saw his it says I heart.

Met so that looks suspiciously like his handwriting.

It might be thanks to our guest.

So thanks to you for being a part of the program.

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