ANNOUNCER: BACKSTORY IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY KEY BANK.

WITH ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FROM THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS.

AND BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

(MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) JASON: IN 1812, A POLITICAL CARTOONIST COINED A WORD THAT WE ARE STILL USING IN AMERICAN POLITICS TODAY, MORE THAN 200 YEARS LATER.

TO GERRYMANDER IS TO DIVIDE OR ARRANGE DISTRICT IN SUCH A WAY TO GIVE ONE PARTY AN UNFAIR ATVANTAGE OVER THE OTHER.

NOW THE CARTOOTN WAS OF A NEWLY DRAWN SENATE DISTRICT AT THE HANDS OF MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR ELDRIDGE GERRYBACK IN 1812 IT WAS A BIZZARELY SAPENED DISTRICT KIND OF LOOKED LIKE A SALAMANDER SO THE CARTOONIST ADDED AN EYE, SOME FANGS A TONGUE, SOME TOES AND CAME UP WITH THE PHRASE WE USE TODAY.

NOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DISLIKED GERRYMANDERING SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING ESPECIALLY THOSE ON THE LOSING ENDS OF THE MAP AND WE HAVE A CHANCE THIS YEAR TO MAKE SOME CHANGE IN OUR AREA TO MAKE IT RIGHT AND AMYBE FIX THIS ISSUE ONCEAND FOR ALL PERHAPS.

OUR 3 GUESTS TODAY ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THAT ON BACKSTORY.

JEN MILLER IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS FOR NEARLY 20 YEARS SHES WORKED WITH DIVERSE COMMUNITIES TO PROMOTE SOCIAL AND ENVIRONMENTALJUSTICE HER PASSION IS GETTING OTHERS INVOLVED IN CIVIC ENGAGEMENT.

DR. MELISSA MILLER IS A PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT BGSU SHE IS AN EXPERT ON AMERICAN POLITICS WITH A FOCUS ON ELECTIONS AND VOTING BEHAVIOR, WOMEN IN AMERICAN POLITICS PUBLIC OPPINION AND THE MEDIA AND FINALLY DR DEB DALKE IS EMERITAS PROFESSOR OF PSYCOLOGY AT DEFIANCE COLLEGE AND SHE IS A REDISTRICTING VOLUNTEER FOR THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS AND FAIR DISTRICTS.

SHES GIVING ZOOM PRESENTATIONS ON THE NEW REDISTRICTING PROCESS IN OHIO AND WHY YOU ARE NEEDED, HOW THE PUBLIC CAN PARTICIPATE IN THIS.

LETS START OUT WITH WHY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW IN 2021.

I UNDERSTAND IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE CENSUS.

DR MILLER: THATS RIGHT, JASON IN FACT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT REDISTRICTING IN 2021 BECAUSE OUR COUNTRIES FOUNDERS MANDATED IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT THERE WOULD BE A CENSUS TAKEN EVERY 10 YEARS SO A CENSUS WAS TAKEN IN 2020 UMMM ND WE ARE JUST NOW HOPING TO GET THE RESULTS FROM THAT CENSUS SOON.

HERS WHAT THE FOUDERS HAD IN MIND.

THEY NEW THAT THE AMERICAN POPULATION ISNT SEDINTARY AND PEOPLE TEND TO MOVE AROUND BOTH WITHIN AND BETWEEN STATES AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS EVERY 10 YEARS YOU NEED TO SORT OF COUNT ALL OF THOSE CITIZENS, ALL THOSE RESIDENTS I SHOULD SAY.

AND MAKE SURE EVERY STATE HAS THE APPROPRIATE NUMBER OF SEATS IN THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES BASED ON THAT POPULATION AND THE STATES CAN USE THAT INFO TO DRAW THEIR APPROPRIATE NUMBER OF CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS ACCORDING TO WHERE THE POPULATION IS SITUATED WITHIN THEIR BORDERS.

NOW LATER IN THE 1960S THE US SUPREME COURT RULED THAT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS MUST BE ROUGHLY EQUAL IN SIZE OF COURSE BECAUSE IT WOULDNT BE FAIR IF SOME AMERICANS LIVED IN A REALLY SMALL CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT AND GOT YOU KNOWGREAT REPRESENTATION BECAUSE THEY WERE ONLY UP ONE OF 150,000 CONSTITUENTS WHERE SOMEBODY ELSE WAS IN A CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT WITH 1,000,000 PEOPLE RIGHT SO CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS HAVE TO BE DRAWN EQUALLY AND EVERY 10 YEARS THE CENSUS ALLOWS STATES TO DRAW THOSE DISTRICTS BASED ON WHERE THE POPULATION HAS SHIFTED AND BY THE WAY THOSE SAME RULES APPLY TO STATE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS SO THERESNOTHING WRONG WITH THE LOGIC OF DOING THE CENSUS AND DRAWING THE DISTRICTS EVERY 10 YEARS.

THE PROBLEM ARISES WHEN A PARTICULAR POLITICAL PARTY USES THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS TO LOCK IN A PARTISAN ADVANTAGE JASON: AND JEN, WILL YOU TALK TO US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THE REDISTRICTING WORKS?

HOW DO WE DETERMINE WHERE THOSE LINES ARE DRAWN AND HOW GERRYMANDERING HAS WORKED IN OHIO IN THE PAST?

JENN: AND SO EVERY STATE HAS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT RULES IN TERMS OF HOW THEY DRAW THOSE STATE SENATE AND STATE HOUSE MAPS AS WELL AS THEIR CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT MAP.

HERE IN OHIO WE HAVE A LOT HISTORY OF WHATS CALLED GERRY MANDERING SO IN FACT THE LEAGUE STARTED FIGHTING THIS CONCEPT OF GERRY MANDERING WHEN DEMOCTRATS WHERE THE ONES WHO DID IT AND WE ARE CONTINUING TO FIGHT THAT NOW THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS WITH REPUBLICANS.

SO LETS JUST BACK UP AND IN TERMS OF A LITTLE PSYCOLOGY.

IF YOUR TEAM IS STRONG, YOUR TEAM IS IN POWER, IT MAKES COMPLETE SENCE THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO USE THAT TO CONTINUE YOUR ADVANTAGE AND SO IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT IT EVERY TEN YEARS YOU KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IS THE MAPS ARE BEING CREATED IN A WAY THAT IT SECURES THAT PARTISAN ADVANTAGE FOR REPUBLICANS YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR.

NOW THAT IS THE CASE FOR OHIO.

AGAIN, BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES DO IT.

WHAT DOES GERRY MANDERING MEAN?

IT MEANS INSTEAD OF REALLY DRAWING THE MAP, THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT MAP IN A WAY OF REALLY KEEPING COMMUNITIES TOGETHER, AND COUNTIES TOGETHER.

THEY ARE SPLITTING DOWN NEIGHBORHOODS, DOWN COUNTIES, DOWN JURISDICTIONAL LINES.

REALLY WITH JUST THE PURPOSE OF GARANTEEING THAT REPUBLICANS WILL HAVE AN ADVANTAGE.

MAYBE SOME REPUBLICAN VOTERS WILL THINK IM A REPUBLICAN SO THAT SHOULD BE GREAT FOR ME BUT HERES THE PROBLEM.

IS THAT IF YOU ARE RUNNING FOR OFFICE AND YOU KNOW YOUR PARTY IS GOING TO WIN OR YOUR ALREADY IN OFFICE AND YOU KNOW YOULL WIN YOUR SEAT AGAIN YOU DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO VOTERS AND WHAT WE SEE WITH PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING IS WE GET EXTREME PARTISAN DIVIDE WICH I THINK SEEMS VERY FAMILIAR TO ALL OF US.

WE GET UN RESPONSIVE ELECTORATE WHO AGAIN KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO WIN THEIR ELECTION.

THEY DONT REALLY NEED TO WORK HARD TO REPRESENT THE NEEDS OF VOTERS AND WE GET REALLY FRUSTRATED AND CONFUSED VOTERS ABOUT THE SYSTEM.

JASON: SO 2021 ISTHE YEAR TO REDRAW THE MAPS IN OHIO BUT UNDER STAN IN 2015 AND 2018 THERE WERE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS THAT WILL CHANGE THE WAY REDISTRICTING IS DONE.

CAN YOUTALK ABOUT SOME OF THE MAJOR HIGHLIGHTS OF THOSE AMENDMENTS JENN: SURE ABSOLUTLY I WILL JUMP IN.

SO THE LEAGUE ACTUALLY WORKS TO BRING CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS TO THE PEOPLE STARTING IN THE 70S AND 80S AND FINALLY BECAUSE OF VOLUNTEERS LIKE DEBBIE ALL ACROSS THE STATE WE WERE ABLE TO DO THAT IN 2015 AND 2018 SO JUST A FEW THINGS FIRST OFF THESE INTITIATIVES PROBABLY A LOT OF YOU WATCHING VOTED FOR IT BECAUSE IN 2015 IT PASSED BY ALMOST 72% OF THE VOTE, IN 2018 ALMOST 75% OF THE VOTE AND ITS REALLY ABOUT ENCOURAGING MAP MAKERS.

THOSE WHO MAKE THOSE MAPS.

TO BE BIPARTISAN TRANSPARENT, TO HAVE PUBLIC PARTISIPATION AND TO KEEP COMMUNITIES TOGETHER IN A WAY SO WE DONT SEE THE TYPES OF SPRAWLING DISTRICTS I THINK YOUR GOING TO HEAR FROM DEBBIE BUT INSTEAD DISTRICTS MORE LIKE ECONOMICALLY AND POLITICALLY AND SOCIALLY AND THEREFORE ITS EASIER FOR LAWMAKERS TO REPRESENT THE NEEDS OF THOSE VOTERS JASON: DR DALKE, JEN MENTIONED THIS IS VERY PARTISAN.

YOU ARE HOLDING THESE ZOOM MEETINGS IN DIFFERENT AREAS.

DIFFERENT SPOTS ACCROSS OUR AREA.

DO YOU EVER HEAR ANYONE A REPUBLICAN SAY WELL THIS IS JUST A POWER GRAB BY DEMOCRATS.

THEY CANT WIN IN OHIO ANY OTHER WAY SO THEY ARE TRYING TO REDRAW THE MAPS AND IF SO HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT.

DEBBIE: WELL I HAVE ACTUALLY NEVER HEARD THAT BUT ONE THING I WOULD SAY IS I GREW UP IN CALIFORNIA AND UMMM I WAS STAYING AT MY BROTHERS WHO IS A REPUBLICAN IM A DEMOCRAT AND A REPUBLICAN CALLED TO TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A REDISTRICTING INITIATIVE AND I SAID YES IM VOTING FOR IT AND HE SAID I NEVER ENCOUNTERED A DEMOCRAT WHO WAS GOING TO VOTE FOR IT.

I SAID I WANT A FAIR FIGHT.

I WANT THESE DISTRICTS TO BE DRAWN FAIRLY SO WE REALLY HAVE A COMPETITION OF IDEAS AND WHAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IS WHY IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE THESE FAIR DISTRICTS.

IF WE HAVE FAIR DISTRICTS THENWE CAN REALLY BETTER ADVOCATE FOR OUR NEEDS BECAUSE IN SOME CASES OUR COMMUNITY IS DIVIDED.

TAKE FOR EXAMPLE LAKEWOOD.

THE PICTURE BEHIND ME IS OF THE SNAKE ON THE LAKE DISTRICT THAT RUNS FROM TOLEDO TO THE OUTSKIRTS OF CLEVELAND SO YOU LIKE IN LAKEWOOD JUST 5 MILES FROM CLEVELAND BUT YOU ARE NOT IN THE DISTRICT WITH CLEVELAND, YOUR IN THE DISTRICT WITH TOLEDO.

SO IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE, YOUR PROBABY CONCERNED WITH CLEVELAND, UMMM YOU SHOP THERE, YOU MAY GO TO HOSPITALS THERE.

YOU WOULD BE ADVOCATING WITH WRITING TO A REPRESENTATIVE FOR WHOM CLEVELAND WAS NOT IN THE TURF SO WE CAN BETTER ADVOCATE FOR OUR COMMUNITIES IF WE CAN KEEP THE COMMUNITIES TOGETHER AND SPLIT COMMUNITIES CONFUSE VOTERS WE HAD A POLITICAL SCIENTIST WHO DOES RESEARCH ON WHAT HAPPENS IN THESE SPLIT COMMUNITIES AND HE SAID THAT THE RESIDENTS ARE LESS LIKELY TO KNOW WHO IS RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

I MEAN IMAGINE IF YOU LOOK ACCROSS THE STREET AND SEE A YARD SIGN AND YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY YARD SIGNS BUT THEY ARE FOR CANDIDATES WHO ARE NOT RUNNING IN YOUR DISTRICT.

AND ANOTHER THING THAT IS IMPORTANT IS WE HAVE GERRYMANDERED DISTRICTS THEN THE COMPOSITION, THE LEGISLATURE DOES NOT MATTER THE MAKUP OF THE VOTERS.

OHIO IS WE WERE A SWING STATE, IT NOW LOOKS LIKE WE ARE MORE LEANING REPUBLICAN AND WE SHOULD SEE THIS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

WE SHOULD HAVE COMPOSITIONS OF THE LEGISLATURES THAT REALLY MATTER HOW THE POPULATION OF OHIO AS A WHOLE FEELS AND WHAT JEN MENTIONED IS THAT SAFE SEAT CAN CAUSE A POLITITION TO CARE MORE ABOUT WHAT DONORS WANT THEN WHAT THE CONSTITUENTS WANT SO I HAVE BEEN DOING RESEARCH AND LOOKING ON ONLINE AND DISCOVERED IN 2018 HERE IN OHIO WE HAD 8 UNOPOSED STATE HOUSE RACES.

AND WHAT THAT EANS IS THAT THE OPPOSITE PARTY FELT THERE WASNO REASON FOR ME TO EVEN RUN SO WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE A COMPETITION OF IDEAS.

DR MILLER, IF I CAN JUST ADD THERE DEB THAT THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE EFFECT TIED TO EVERYTHING BOTH YOU AND JEN HAVE SAID WHICH IS WHEN YOU GERRYMANDER DISTRICT SO YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF DISTRICTS THAT WILL DEFFINITLY ELECT REPUBLICAN AND YOU HAVE SOME OTHER DISTRICTS THAT WILL DEFINITLY ELECT A DEMOCRAT.

WHY BOTHER TO VOTE WHEN YOU KNOW THE OUTCOME?

AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IN HIGHLY GERRYMANDERED STATES IS THAT TURNOUT TENDS TO BE YOU KNOW SOMEWHAT LOWER.

NOW 2020 WAS AN EXCEPTION FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

THERE WAS HIGH TURNOUT BECAUSE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

BUT ALL OF THE ACTION ENDS UP BEING IN THESE PRIMARIES INSTEAD OF IN THE GENERAL ELECTION BECAUSE WHOEVER WHINS THAT PRIMARY IN A DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT IS GOING TO WIN IN NOVEMBER.

OR WHOEVER WINS IT IN THE REPUBLICAN DISTRICT IS GOING TO WIN IN NOVEMBER AND SO JUST TO KIND OF TIE IT UP WITH A BOW SOME OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED THAT RED DISTRICT IS LIKELY TO NOMINATE SOMEBODY IDEOLOGICALLY VERY CONSERVATIVE AND THE DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT IS GOING TO NOMINATE SOMEBODY IDEOLOGICALLY VERY LIBERAL.

AND THATS WHY YOU END UP WITH IDEOLOGICAL I DON'T WANT TO OVERSTATE IT BUT EXTREMIST IN OUR LEGISLATIVE BODIES WHO CAN'T COMPROMIZE AND WE END UP WITH GRIDLOCK THAT FRUSTRATES EVERYTHING.

JASON: HOW DO YOU DO IT FAIRLY?

JEN: SO THERES A LOF OF WAYS TO DO IT FAIRLY BUT FIRST LETS JUST 1 MORE MEASURE ONE KIND OF SMELL TEST IF YOU WILL IF A MAP IS FAIR OR NOT.

SO IN OHIO ABOUT ANY GENERAL ELECTION ABOUT 55% OF THE SATEWIDE VOTERS ARE REPUBLICAN AND ABOUT 45% ARE DEMOCRAT AND SO WHAT WE HAVE IS ALMOST 50 50 WITH A SLIGHT REPUBLICAN ADVANTAGE UMMM BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS IN THESE MAPS WE HAVE BOTH IN THE SATEHOUSE AND CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION IS ABOUT 75% REPUBLICAN SO THAT DOESNT MEET THE SMELL TEST RIGHT WE SHOULD SEE THE MAPS BE SLIGHTLY MORE REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE THEN DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVES SO SOME OF THE THINGS WE NEED TO FIRST UNDERSTAND IS HOW WE MEASURE OR LOOK IF SOMETHING IS AN UNFAIR PARTISAN ADVANTAGE.

THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS TO DRAW MAPS.THE ONE THING I WILL SAY IS THE LAST TIME OR LAST SEVERAL TIMES WE HAD ALMOST NO TRANPARENCY IN THE PROCESS.

IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR GROUPS LIKE THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS TO REALLY KNOW WHY MAPS WERE BEING MADE THE WY THEY WERE.

WHAT DATA WAS BEING USED.

WHAT THEIR GOALS WERE AND THERE WAS ALMOST NO TIME FOR VOTERS TO ANALYZE THOSE MAPS OR COMMENT ON THEM SO ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT IS GOOD ABOUT THESE NEW REFORMS WE ARE IMPLEMENTING THIS YEAR ISMORE TRANSPARENCY AND PUBLIC IMPUT AND I WANT TO SAY WITH THE VOTERS, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT IN ALL 88 STATES WHO DEMANDED CHANGES TO THIS AND SO ONCE AGAIN ITS GOING TO HAVE TO BE HE VOTERS WHO DEMAND THAT THE LETTER AND SPIRIT OF THESE REFORMS ARE UPELD THIS YEAR.

JASON: ALRIGHT JENN AND I KNOW WE HAVE SPECIFICS ON HOW PEOPLE CAN GET INVOLVED IN JUST A MOMENT BUT FIRST WE HAVE TO SQUEEZE IN A BREAK HERE.

FOR THOSE OF YOU AT HOME, GRAB YOUR CELL PHNE.

I SEE YOUR CAT THERE DEFINITLY WANTS TO WEIGH IN ON THIS CONVERSATION.

THOSE AT HOME GET READY TO TAKE A PHOTO, WE HAVE SOME RESOURCES FOR YOU.

WE WILL BE BACK WITH MORE BACKSTORY IN JUST A MOMENT.

(MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) JASON: WELCOME BACK TO BACSTORY.

LETS PICKUP WHERE WE LEFT OFF.

JEN I UNDERSTAND THAT GERRYMANDERING IS A LOT MORE SOPHISTICATED NOW THAN IT WAS.

IN FACT THE NEW YORK TIMES OPPINION PIECE WRITER PUT IT THIS WAY, AND THIS IS A SLIGHT PARAPHRASE GERRYMANDERING USED TO BE AN ART BUT THANKS TO COMPUTER THEY HAVE GOT IT DOWN TO A SCIENCE.

CAN YOU KIND OF EXPLAIN THAT TO OUR AUDIENCE?

JENN: YEAH WITH MORE PRECISION THAN EVER, MAP MAKERS CAN KNOW HOW VOTERS MAY BEHAVE.

AND SO THATS WHY RIGHT NOW WHAT YOU SEE IS YOU COULD LITERALLY HAVE A HOUSE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS SUROUNDED ON 3 SIDES BY AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT DISTRICT.

ALL OF THAT IS DESIGNED TO TRY TO DILUTE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THE MINORITY PARTY VOTES.

AND SO THATS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE BUT IT WAS MROE OF A PEN AND PAPER KIND OF SCENEREO.

NOW WE HAVE SUPER DATA WE HAVE SUPER COMPUTERS WITH MUCH MORE PRECISION MAP MAKERS COULD AND REALLY PICKING AND CHOOSING VOTERS.

AND THATS WHAT WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT.

IS POLITICIANS DRAWING MAPS SO THEY GET TO PICK VOTERS RATHER THAN VOTERS GETTING TO PICK WHO REPRESENTS THEM BECAUSE THE WAY THOSE LINES ARE DRAWN BUT YEAH ABSOLUTLY COMPUTERS ARE SO MUCH STRONGER NOW BY THE TRANSPARENCY AND PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AND THESE RULES ARE RUN BY PARTISANSHIP ARE SO IMPORTANT.

DR MILLER, RACIAL GERYMANDERING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL BUT PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING IS NOT.

DO YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE?

DR MILLER: WELL THE SUPPREME COURT SEES A DIFFERNECE.

I THINK THERE WERE MANY OF US WHO HOPED IN THE RECENT CASES THAT WENT BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT THAT PERTAINED TO PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING THAT THE SUPREME COURT WOULD WEIGH IN.

AND WOULD RULE THAT LIKE RCIAL GERRYMANDERING IN WHICH ITS BEEN RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL BASICALLY ON THE GROUNDS THAT IF YOU DRAW A DISTRICT THAT PULLS ALLMEMBERS OF A RACIAL MINORITY INTO A SINGLE DISTRICT ITS A FORM OF WHAT THE MAJORITY OPPINION CALLED PARTEITH.

WELL THE SAME SOME WOULD ARGUE COULD BE MEMBERS OF THE MINORITY PARTY AND PACK THEM INTO ONE DISTRICT YOUR DELUDING THEIR INFLUENCE IN THE LEGISLATURE BECAUSE YOUR MAKING SURE THE OTHER DISTRICTS ARE CONTROLLED BY THAT OTHER PARTY.

SO I THINK THERE ARE FOLKS LIKE ME WHO BELIEVE THERE ARE SOME SIMILARITIES BUT THE COURT DIDNT FIGHT WHEN IT CAME TO THOSE SEVERAL CASES WHERE IT COULDVE RULED AND SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT IN 2022 2024, IN THE YEARS AHEAD IF THERE ARE FOR INSTANCE ANY LEGAL CHALLENGES TO THE MAPS REDRAWN AND USED IN OHIO STATE LEGISLATIVE AND CONGRESSIONAL RACES, THOSE CASES WILL GO THROUGH SATE COURT AND THEY CAN BE ARGUED TO THE OHIO SUPREME COURT.

BUT THE SUPREME COURT OF THE US HAS TAKEN A PASS ON THATAND I THINK ITS TO THE REAL DISAPOINTMENT OF REFORM MINDED PEOPLE LIKE JEN DEB AND OTHERS.

JASON: I DON'T KNOW WHO WANTS TO TAKE THIS BUT HOUSE BILL 1 IS ALSO KNOWN AS FOR THE PEOPLE ACT.

IT HAS RECIEVED SOME MEDIA ATTENTION IT WOULD REQUIRE THE PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDNET TO DISCLOSE 10 YEARS OF TAX RETURNS.

IT TALKS ABOUT CAMPAIGN FINANCE, ELECTION REFORM BUTIN THAT IT DOES ADDRESS REDISTRICTING AND IT WOULD MAKE IT PUBLIC AND LESS PARTISAN.

IS THAT FEDERAL APPROACH A GOOD IDEA AND DO YOU SEE A LAW AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL PERTAINING TO THIS BECOMING A REALITY?

JEN: I AM HAPPY TO TAKE THAT.

UNLESS YOU WANT TO DR DAHLKE.

SO WE ARE SUPPORTERS OF FOR THE PEOPLE ACT.

WHILE WE LIKE THE REFORMS WE HAVE IN OHIO AND WE ARE THANKFUL FOR THEM.

THERE ARE MANY STATES THAT HAVE NOTHING.

WHAT IS IN FOR THE PEOPLE ACT IS STRONGER BECAUSE INSTEAD OF RIGHT NOW WHAT WE STILL HAVE AND AGAIN THIS IS BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO WORK WITH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TO GET THESE ISSUES ON THE BALLOT AND TO GET THEM PASSED.

SO WHAT WE HAVE ARE GRAND COMPROMISES THAT HELP.

THEY DO CREATE GUARDRAILS.

BUT FOR THE PEOPLE ACT CALLS FOR AN INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION SO THAT ACTUALLY COULD BE NOT POLITICIANS AT AL BUT YOU COULD HAVE EXPERTS IN MAP MAKING YOU COULD HAVE ACADEMICS WHO UNDERSTAND VARIOUS COMMUNITIES AND THE CENSUS YOU COULD HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERNENT KINDS OF FOLKS WHO REPRESENT EVERYDAY PEOPLE OF OHIO WHO ARE TRUELY TRYING TO MAKE MAPS THAT MAKE SENSE AND WHEN YOU ARE DRAWING MAPS WITH A GOAL OF REALLY HAVING FAIR REPRESENTATION THERE GOING TO LOOK VERY DIFFEREN AND YOUR GOING TO HAVE MUCH DIFFERENT RESULTS, MUCH BETTER RESULTS THEN WHEN POLITICIANS ARE DRAWING THEM SO THAT IS ACTUALLY WHY WE KEEP GOING BACK TO THE FACT THAT WE NEED EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE.

IF HR1 PASSES IN MY OPPINION, WE WILL SEE MORE FAIR MAPS THEN WE HAVE EVER SEEN BEFORE HERE IN OHIO.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME WE DO HAVE THESE REFORMS AND ITS IMPORTANT THAT THE GOVERNOR SECRETARY OF STATE, THAT OHIO LAWMAKERS ARE HEARING FROM VOTERS THAT THEY WANT FAIR MAPS.

THAT THEY WANT AN END TO PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING.

DR DAHLKE: AND IF I COULD ADD ONE THING HERE IS THE REASON WHY A FEDERAL LAW WOULD BE IMPORTANT IS THAT ONCE A STATE DOES BECOME HEAVILY GERRYMANDERED THEN ITS UP TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE THE PEOPLE WHO CREATED THE GERRYMANDERING DISTRICTS TO CHANGE IT AND WHY WOULD THEY.

SO A STATE IS LIKELY TO KEEP BEING GERRYMANDERED UNLESS IN THE CASE IN OHIO WITH A CITIZENS STEPPED IN AND HAD SOME INITIATIVES FOR FAIR DISTRICTS OR THERE IS A FEDERAL RULE.

AND THERE ARE STATES IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE NO ABILITY FOR EVERYDAY PEOPLE TO BRING INITIATIVES LIKE THE LEAGUE DID.

THERE ARE STATES IN THE COUNTRY THAT CANNOT GO TO THEIR STATES SUPREME COURT.

THEY LITERALLY THEIR VOTERS HAVE NO WAY TO EVEN PUT ANY GAURDRAILS OR LIMITS ON PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING.

AND AGAIN THIS HAPPENS, BOTH PARTIES DO IT.

WE KNOW THIS HAS BEEN A PROBLEM AS YOUVE SAID IN THE BEGINING OF THE REPUBLIC SO A NATIONAL STANDARD DOES A COUPLE THINGS.

IT PROTECTS EVERY STATE, EVERY VOTER.

BUT IT ALSO MEANS OUR CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION HOPEFULLY IS SELECTED THROUGH FAIR MAPS AND IS WORKING WITH OTHER CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATIONS IN KENTUCKY AND MICHIGAN AND INDIANA AND PENNSYLVANIA THAT ALSO HAVE FAIR MAPS AND THAT MEANS THE ENTIRE REGION IS GOING TO GET BETTER POLICIES THAT BETTER SERVE US.

OUT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERMENT.

JASON: AND DR DAHLKE YOU ARE HOLDING THESE VIRTUAL MEETING TRYING TO GET PEOLE INVOLVED.

HOW CAN PEOPLE GET INVOLVED.

WHAT ARE YOU TELLING PEOPLE OUT THERE?

DR DAHLKE: OK WELL ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I WOULD SAY IS JOIN ONE OF THESE GROUPS.

YOU HAVE THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS.

YOU HAVE COMMON CAUSE.

AND THEN YOU HAVE FAIR DISTRICTS WHICH IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS SOULY DIRECTED TOWARDS CREATE THESE FAIR DISTRICTS.

SO BECOME A CITIZEN ACTIVIST AND GET TO KNOW YOUR DISTRICT BOUNDARIES.

I MEAN, I HAD NEVER LOOKED AT A MAP OF MY DISTRICT UNTIL A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO BUT THINK ABOUT YOUR OWN DISTRICT.

IS YOUR COMMUNITY DIVIDED UNECESSARILY, OR IN A WAY THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE?

TALK TO PEOPLE THROUGH FAIR DISTRICTS, YOU CAN BE TRAINED TO GIVE PRESENTATIONS LIKE I DO.

YOU CAN BE TRAINED TO HELP PEOPLE TO DRAW NEW DISTRICT MAPS.

YOU CAN HELP FAIR DISTRICTS MONITOR WHAT THE POLITICIANS ARE DOING.

YOU CAN WRITE YOUR STATE'S SENATORS AND HOUSE MEMBERS.

TELL THEM YOU WANT FAIR DISTRICTS BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY CREATE THE DISTRICTS.

WRITE LETTERS TO THE EDITOR.

IN MY TRAINING PRESENTATIONS, I WAS TOLD THAT THE REPRESENTATIVES THEY PAY ATTENTION TO LETTERS THAT MENTION THAT.

THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS BEING SAID ABOUT THEM AND THE PAPER.

SO WRITE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR AND FAIR DISTRICTS CAN HELP YOU.

THEY HAVE TOOLS THAT IF YOUR UNCONFORTABLE ABOUT WRITING THE LETTER THEY CAN GIVE YOU IDEAS.

JASON: AND JEN WE HAVE ABOUT 1 MINUTE LEFT.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE PERSON OVERWHELMED BY THIS?

THEY WANT TO GET INVOLVED BUT DON'T KNOW WHERE TO START.

JENN: YOU DONT NEED TO BE AN EXPERT THATS WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR AND AGAIN THE LEAGUE IS FEIRCLY NONPARTISAN.

WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING ON BEHALF OF VOTERS.

AGAINST BAD MAPS WHEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE IT.

SO JOIN US BECOME A MEMBER OF THE LEAGUE.

YOU CAN GET OUR EMAILS, FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND AGAIN, LEAGUE IS THE LEADER OF FAIR DISTRICTS.

SO JOIN US THERE AND WE WILL BE YOUR EYES AND EARS.

BUT WE CAN'T JUST DO IT.

WE CAN BE YOUR EYES AND EARS BUT THEN WE NEED AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE RAISING THEIR VOICES IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

JASON: ALRIGHT THANKS TO JEN MILLER, DR MELISSA MILLER, AND DR DEB DAHLKE AND MONSTER KITTY, WE GOT THE CATS NAME OVER BREAK.

APPRECIATE ALL 4 OF YOU AND THANKS FOR YOU AT HOME FOR EWATCHING THIS EDITION OF BACKSTORY.

WE WILL BE BACK NEXT TIME.

ANNOUNCER: BACKSTORY IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY KEYBANK WITH ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FROM THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS AND BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

(MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC) (MUSIC)