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And now the 490 with Gretchen De Backer, Matt Killam, and Kevin Mullin all.

Welcome into the 419.

I'm Kevin Mullin, backer.

Not killing.

It is another great day to be in the 419.

We've got a another jam packed show with some incredible people in our region.

We're going to be talking with Todd Crail from the University of Toledo, environmental science professor and a fellow West Toledo in.

We've got a Todd and I have a fun connection that we'll talk about a little bit that his work ethic, man, that that guy, he can work.

Yeah.

No kidding.

It's it's impressive.

And then we're going to have Matt Rubin and Julia Randall's on the program, talking about some of the cool developments that happen in the downtown area.

And then we'll finish off talking with Andrew Newby, our friend from Toledo Spirits, talking about some of the, innovative food programs they've got going on and the work he's doing with mobile meals.

And adapting, you know, former wastelands into the bedroom of the community.

This is a really interesting project.

Yeah.

So it's going to be it's going to be an exciting show I have to share with you guys.

I discovered a a mobile game, a web game that.

For a moment I thought you were going to say mole.

I discovered.

A mole.

Yeah.

You about to tell us about.

I need you guys.

Yeah, I need you guys.

It's.

It's called categories.

No, no no, no, I discovered this game and I it it might be one of the most like, simplest games, but it is brilliant.

And I can't believe it took someone so long to come up with it.

It is called.

So my my, my boys are obsessed with it.

Okay.

My brother is now obsessed with it.

It's called 820.

Remind the boys, ages.

11 and nine.

1109.

Okay.

It's called 8200.

As in zero or oh as in the.

Letter O. As in zero.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

So what?

So before I explain the game, Gretchen, I'm interested in what you think the game is about, based on the name.

82 and.

Oh.

Yeah, I think it's maybe that's just the age range it's.

Good for.

Oh, perfect.

Charming.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

I want to.

See you.

I want to see it.

I want to see a newborn play a mobile game.

This would be great.

Just flattening the sense, the concept of time.

Finally, in one, one game.

Yeah.

I presumably it's about being an undefeated NBA season.

That is correct.

Okay.

Yeah.

So NBA being basketball.

That's right.

National basketball association yeah yeah.

Wow.

You have to find 82 moles.

Yeah.

So so what do you have to do in the game.

So you like basically it'll randomly generate a team and an era.

And then you have to pick one player from that team in that era.

And then you build out a starting five point guard, shooting guard small forward power forward center.

Okay.

And then you try and put together the best starting five that could go 820 in the NBA.

And it simulates using their stats.

So points per game, rebounds per game, assists.

Per game.

So you you you get to pick.

Based on nothing just your knowledge.

It shows you their stats.

I mean you can play that like there's an easy version that shows you their stats.

And then there's a harder version that gives you them alphabetically with no stats.

And then you play out a season.

Simulate a season.

It instantly.

Against other people.

You can do it online against other people.

You can do it, just on your own to try to get to 82.

And the best I've ever done is 80 and two.

Wow.

Garret, my oldest son, has gotten 820, and my brother has gotten 820.

But I don't think you can do it without Will Chamberlain.

Has anyone in.

Real life.

Ever done 820?

No, no, no.

Is that a dumb question?

Yes.

I don't know.

Yes it is.

Yeah.

Two has a positive spin, so we're not allowed to say one of us says something.

Oh, okay.

I'm sorry.

No, I think yes.

Maybe if we were still calling questions dumb, which were not.

We're not anymore.

That one would have been.

Thank you.

The old one.

The dumbest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hey, speaking of dumb questions.

Yes.

And we were.

We're we're going to be asking what might be some dumb questions to our next guest, in part because he is significantly smarter than at least I am.

I'm not going to speak for Gretchen.

I can probably speak for Matt.

Let's just let's take a break.

When we come back, we'll be joined by Todd Crail from the University of Toledo talking environmental science, and he's going to tell us what is God's.

I'm interested.

You two.

We'll be right back on the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

We're joined now by Todd Crail from the University of Toledo.

Todd, welcome to the 419.

Thank you for having me.

I sort of can't believe that it was it has taken us to season two to get you on the program.

You're doing incredible things.

I'm excited to talk about about all manner of things.

But I said in the intro that you and I have a rather interesting connection.

I had a front row seat to see what is either the insanity or the dedication insanity.

Okay.

Yeah.

You don't have to pick today.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I used to have at our house, I used to have a probably, what, two foot, three foot stone wall.

Two by.

Three that went all the way around the yard.

Maybe five foot if he counted how far it.

Went, man.

And and so I threw up.

I threw a post up on the neighborhood page.

It wasn't working to keep for our dogs.

We had to redo the fence.

And so I needed it to go away.

And I didn't want it to end up in a landfill.

So I threw a post up on the neighborhood page, and Todd's wife tagged, I think.

I think she tagged you, which is like the green light for you to go crazy.

That'll be over in a minute.

And she.

Said, you should go check this out and see if you can use this rock.

So I go over and I look at it and I'm like, this is how deep the nerd goes.

I'm like, that's done.

Deformation rock.

You can't even get that anymore.

Yeah, sure.

And so I come back and we're.

Going to use it.

I can't we're going to use it.

Yeah, we're going to take it over to university.

And she says she goes, that's not going over to the university, is it?

I said, no, it's going over to the university.

She goes, it's not going over to the universe.

I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

That's right.

You know how this goes.

Yeah.

You know, the next steps make good choices here.

Don't start the.

Don't start the monster.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

She started the monster.

She started the monster.

It is what you have done.

So Todd has taken all of it down by himself.

Largely.

I think there was, like, one day for, like, 20 minutes that a couple other people showed up.

Todd at one point said to me, there are like four huge rock nerds in northwest Ohio.

And Todd knows the other three.

Okay.

And then can lift, though, which is weird.

Yeah.

I don't no no no no no.

That was selfish.

Yeah, sure.

I wanted I wanted first pick.

Yeah, sure.

Right.

Because the fossils in this are insane.

Seriously?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, you getting these.

So what, this big?

So give us.

The conceptual, the date of this rock to be able to house these specimens is.

What?

How old is.

This stuff?

Devonian to 230 million.

Wow.

And so.

That's part of our history.

That's right.

I did not want it to go away.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yes.

And that's the show?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, she's on next.

She's on next.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you were.

Your parents are into science there?

No.

What?

No, no.

Their version of camping was holiday in.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I'm black sheep in the family.

Okay.

And I just like the stuff.

And my mom was awesome.

And her one rule was to the basement.

Okay.

So you come in as dirty as you want, but you go down to the basement.

And you grew up in the area, or.

Early life was in Lima.

Okay.

And then, high school was in Toledo, and then we then I went to Bluffton University.

Bluffton College at the time.

You're a beaver?

A beaver.

And then came back to.

So I've always lived in the 419.

When did you figure out that you could do this?

Like, respectfully, you could, like, nerd out for a living?

In my 20s.

I I I, I took the long way around.

I was not engaged in undergrad, and I was more interested in fishing than anything else.

Sure.

And, after college, I started someone.

I was keeping game fish.

I wanted to see how game fish bit.

So I got this big aquarium and had all these game fish.

And then this internet thing had these fish, weird fish, people who kept native fish.

And it found out the bait was way more interesting than the game fish.

And that just as I said earlier.

What is the fish side of the internet look like?

What is the what would you find in the the underbelly of the fish side of it?

Oh.

There's yeah, some weird stuff going on.

There's.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What are the just what are the, like, courses that you're actually teaching at UT?

The courses that I teach are are intro environmental science.

Okay.

Okay.

So I'm my my goal as, as an academician is engagement to help students through that part that I did so poorly.

And part of that is to really engage them on the local area.

We talk about environmental science as a global issue.

Yes it is.

But I you know, when I can talk about a problem happening in the country of Angola, I can talk about a problem happening on the road.

Angola.

Why why wouldn't I pick the road?

Angola.

Especially as interesting as the road Angola.

Is, right.

I'm always fascinated as somebody who absolutely lives each and breathes a subject matter for which they teach.

It has to be difficult to grade or to try to motivate people who who simply or not.

Right?

I mean, this is something that you are truly driven by.

You're fascinated by it, and you have, let's say, 30 kids in a class and maybe 28 of them are are not right.

But how do you keep yourself motivated to teach the new round of people who might just be checking a box?

Those.

You know, it's been my whole life.

Yeah.

Okay.

You know, and to have the opportunity now to talk to anybody about what I'm obsessed with is, is an amazing privilege.

Yeah.

Well said.

And so, and so and and the the people who respond respond so strongly and, well, you know, my online class has 300 people in it.

Am I going to touch 300 people?

I don't know.

They would have to watch the videos.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Two, two.

Matt's question.

What do you find in the students of today, if you will?

Do they come to the class?

Do they pick the class because they're interested in the environment?

The majors.

Are okay.

The majors are the non majors.

And it's two different audiences.

So it's two different approaches.

And you know, I like to joke that I've learned more about being a professor from comedians than I have from professors.

Elaborate on that.

It's a series of bits.

Yeah.

And so comedy comes in threes and you're going to get you're going to get it in that rotation over and over.

And so so and they respond to it very well.

They're, they're excited for it.

This is a class that can't just take place in the classroom.

Right.

What what does this actually look like and what what are you guys doing.

Classroom.

So we have we have.

And I'm going to push them back into I'm in the process of pushing it back into the classroom because I totally missed doing the big show.

I had there's one room that has seats 250 and that is my favorite, absolute favorite thing.

Yeah.

I I'd just go in there and blow it up.

Yeah.

And, and that's what, the environments that I really thrive on.

When Covid hit, we had and I was, I was I refused to do things online until Covid hit.

And I'm like, okay, well now we have to now I have to figure this out.

And what was interesting was at that time I was like, how do I do this?

Well.

And I'm like, who do these people really relate to?

And I was like, Steve from Blue's Clues.

Yeah.

I'm like, what's that cat do that?

Yeah, people relate to.

And he looks right into the camera.

And so I was like, oh, I'm having a conversation through the camera is the most dopamine depleting.

100.

Percent says.

Yeah, we know a little bit about.

You know about that.

Yeah, yeah.

You're just talking at the same thing again.

And doing it by yourself at a computer is just.

It's absolute torture.

I mean, we're kind of wired the same.

I need the social feedback.

That's what I. I thrive on, but they need it.

They needed it.

And consequently a lot of nontraditional students, it's really touched a lot of them there.

The emails that I continually.

Kevin's question, I think one of the things that you're using the online class or in the classroom to break out of said brick and mortar and get people outside the Guts program in particular, is your baby, and we want to give you as much time to brag about it and educate that as possible, because I'm aware of it, obviously based on my day job.

Kevin is aware of it based on your proximity and friendship, but this is a really cool program that you've created.

Can you give us the the Alpha Zeta about it?

So just six things.

So just six.

I got I got you I just see if I can keep track of.

That's right.

So.

Guts or greening you Toledo through service is a experiential learning part of the president's big push for experiential learning.

He's probably talked about that on the show.

And you know he came in and was saying that here's what we want to develop.

And I'm like yeah.

Already have it for you.

Like let's go.

Yeah.

And we've been kind of sitting here at a, at a mode where it needed some more investment and for, for infrastructure because this is my side.

This is my side gig.

Right.

And so what had happened was we were doing a lot of management, land management.

So managing invasive species.

Through Department of Natural Areas and Preserves, Irwin Prairie was run over with glossy buckthorn and some other invasive shrubs.

And we went out there with hand tools and cut down 25 acres of this stuff.

Wow.

And really, really invigorated people's interest in that site.

And it should be.

It's it's the best representation of an ecosystem that has to a five total left in the world.

To the layperson.

If you could quickly about what an invasive species is and the damage that it could do in relative short.

So an invasive species is typically an introduced species.

I don't like the invasion part because it gets into phobic really quickly.

I would prefer that we call them pervasive species.

It's about an abundance.

Then when we have native species that become overabundant and it makes more sense.

Sure, whatever I don't I don't write papers, so nobody cares.

That's right.

Yeah.

But, But what happens is in the case of vegetation is they become hyper abundant and they process the sun's energy, but then they lock the sun's energy at primary production.

There's no food web that goes beyond them because nothing eats them.

And so it becomes problematic because, they can become dominant.

And when they're dominant and nothing's eating them, what else do we have?

We don't have much else.

Sure.

So.

So we were doing that kind of management, and the students were like, why aren't we doing things on campus?

And I said, that's.

A great question.

Yeah.

And there was some history there.

And and so we went to solve the problems and, and we're where we're at now.

We're talking with Todd Crail, a distinguished university lecturer at the University of Toledo in the environmental science department.

You've got a an event coming up on November 21st.

Yes.

Talk to us about that.

So, so.

We got the students, basically.

So to describe guts better.

All right.

So we came back to campus and we began taking over native plantings that have been done on campus.

A lot of a lot of there.

There were some installations they hadn't been really cared for.

Facilities was supposed to take care of them.

They didn't really understand them.

It's difficult and it takes a specialized knowledge to to be able to do it.

So we started helping to manage the student Green Fund is is a is a fund that students contribute $5 each semester.

They can opt out of doing that, but it generates a lot of capital.

And so that paid a student to begin inventorying and figuring out where we needed to do some work.

And so we took over the installations that were done previously, managed them into something people were more excited about because they were not excited about them.

Because they were just let, let let go.

And so the the the formation of the, the the organization has been basically a student directed, student led model where students are paid to facilitate other students to do the collection, the germination, the growing and out planting.

At this point, we have about an acre and a half of gardens that we maintain.

And then the number we're beginning some of the land management on, on campus, knocking down the invasive species and putting a lot more of those ecosystem services back into place.

Very cool.

Yeah.

It's incredible what you're doing.

The if you haven't seen it, the garden outside of the glass bowl underneath or surrounding the rocket in full bloom.

It literally looks like the rocket is taking off.

Oh, cool.

It's what you have done.

Oftentimes when I hear people talk about.

Fire and smoke.

But but it's like.

But when people talk about, like, native plants, I often think, like, I guess I think like weeds and overgrown grass and like, it just looks ugly, right?

What you guys are doing on campus is is incredible.

Keep up the great work.

Keep us posted of the great things that you have going on.

Todd Crowe with University of Toledo, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you.

We're gonna take a break.

When we come back, we will have, Who are we talking to?

Matt Rubin and Julia Randall's.

We'll be right back on the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

You all right?

Yeah.

Good.

Thank you.

She's like, why am I always on camera?

I don't like to show.

That'll help.

We are joined now by Matt Rubin Julia Randall's with Crane Development.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having us.

You.

I feel like like, every, like six days I see some cool, new, cool project you guys are working on.

You guys need to calm down a little bit.

Yeah, like.

But you all, like, you've always been, like, crazy.

Like, I mean, you've been an overachiever from the first moment I met you.

I mean, like, at the University of Toledo, you were leading things and your student government or homecoming king or all of the things.

Yeah, yeah, couple of those things.

Come those titles.

Yeah.

Thank you.

And congratulations on the second season.

Yeah.

Congrats.

Thank you.

By the way.

Let's explain before we get too far.

Let's explain what crane development is and what's the work you guys do?

Sure.

Crane development is a real estate company focused in downtown Toledo.

So our mission is to accelerate the revitalization of downtown Toledo.

And we do that by acquiring properties and by redeveloping them, attracting new tenants, and also attracting investment to downtown Toledo.

And when did you to join forces?

In, August of 2018.

Matt was looking for investors and I had recently moved to Toledo.

I'm not originally from here.

And you're from.

I grew up in northwest Indiana.

Completed my degree in Indiana and then was working in Chicago.

Okay.

I moved back to Chicago as well.

Where?

In northwest Indiana.

To Indiana.

It's a really tiny.

To Indiana in the fall.

Yeah.

So you.

Is so beautiful.

So beautiful.

People flocked.

Yes.

To take it all.

We have one stoplight.

That's right.

Did you want to work with Matt?

Because he had been homecoming king?

Yes.

Is that what?

That was really it.

That was.

The key.

Yeah, that was it.

I could see that.

I will tell you, though, based on my day job, I have had the good fortune of work with many developers.

And I don't mean this to make you both feel uncomfortable, but you're always, warm, right?

And you're excited about whatever you're doing.

And that is not always the case.

And that isn't, again, to be snarky of others, but it is always pleasant to run into you.

And I think that if anyone going to get into some of your projects and success, but it is not to be dismissed that the work of success comes from people who people like to work with and people can tell are about sort of a bigger thing.

So before we get into the nuts and bolts of that, as somebody who has benefited from your work.

Both on a personal level and professional, thank you for bringing the energy that you do.

Matt.

That's what you wanted me to say, right?

Yeah.

Thank you very much.

I mean, Toledo is is really an incredible community.

And, you know, I originally from outside Detroit and came here in 2007 to go to school at UT.

Got to play for the rockets for a couple of years.

I was on the team when we beat the University of Michigan, which was a big highlight.

It was awesome, but Toledo was just a place where there's so much opportunity and there's so much to do.

I don't think I could have been a startup real estate developer, you know, in Chicago or New York, but Toledo is a place where you can look for opportunity, and you can easily find it and find the place where you fit in to actually make a difference.

And I think that's that's something really unique and special about Toledo.

And it's something that's kept me here.

And, my wife Brianne is from Youngstown originally.

She also came here for the University of Toledo.

We both stuck around and just really have fallen in love with the community, and it's been so fun to get involved and be able to actually help, help make a difference and help build things up.

So Crane is working on a number of a pretty unique, investments in downtown Toledo.

But why downtown Toledo?

Why not do some strip mall in Sylvania?

Or maybe you do that as well?

I don't know, but, like, what drew you to want to invest in properties or projects in downtown Toledo?

What first got me interested in downtown Toledo was being a resident.

So I moved to downtown Toledo in 2011 12.

And just during a couple of years of living there, you could really see the potential.

It's a it's just a beautiful part of town.

You've got ships that are going up and down through the mommy River.

There's always activity, something to walk to.

You've got the beautiful architecture.

And so I think just being in that neighborhood and then starting to see things with ProMedica come together and then realizing, you know, these people are going to need somewhere to eat, somewhere to shop, somewhere to live.

And what opportunities are out there?

The thing that I was really missing and wanting to accomplish that was, was the background and understanding of construction, because that's really I mean, the the biggest, most important thing of the development and the riskiest thing.

And so when I met Julia and got to understand her background and we started working together on these projects, that's when things really took off and when the potential really started to get realized.

What was the.

The first project?

What was your very first project with Crane?

614 Adam Street, which was Fallen Fodder Restaurant and now is today is surnames.

Yeah.

I mean, is there a is there a signature that you guys have when you're doing a redevelopment that like, you know, this is the kind of floor we're going to use or we're going to, you know, cut a hole in the wall like this or we want, is there some recipe there that you say, hey, this is the this is the thumbprint of a crane development project.

I think.

So we, we definitely focus on multiple buildings in a single block.

So, you know, we'll pick up 1 or 2 at a time, but our goal is really to assemble, you know, the majority of that block.

And that allows us to create, you know, neighborhoods within cities.

And I think that's a really exciting.

I was going to ask if that was intentional, because it's very clear it's people that I am you or my landlord.

At full disclosure, I my law office is on Adams Street and that corridor of Adams, that little section of Adams between Erie and what is that?

Huron is basically almost all crane development.

You're working on a huge project on the corner right now.

That's going to be a mixed use development.

And then your other location is, is Huron, right where the other side of Huron, more by Mud Hens, where you've done multiple things over there.

So that that is an intentional decision to to do that.

It is definitely on Adams Street.

We own six of those buildings that that current development on the corner is actually IBC property.

Oh, okay.

And we're so excited that they were able to pick up that building and get that done, because it really takes, you know, more than just us.

Yeah, we need.

About a ton of work in there.

We need about, you know, ten size crane development to see Toledo.

Really.

But people don't understand it.

It isn't just the site control is critical, right.

You get to say what happens on this corridor and how everything can complement one another.

I'm curious.

We talked a little about the first one, but what are you working on now, if you don't mind giving us a quick splash?

And I work for a park system, and presumably we all have family and loved ones, and you don't have a favorite, but you have a favorite.

So what?

What are you working on now?

That's got you kind of dug in and you want to talk about here today?

Yeah.

I think right now we're working on, I think what's the most exciting development in downtown Toledo right now, which is Huron Yards?

Yes.

And so this is the block right along the third baseline of this third field on Huron Street, bounded by Monroe in Washington and then Erie on the other side.

So we have been able to assemble, significant properties on that site and done some, some redevelopment of some former industrial properties to really bring it alive into, to change the vibe on the block and to really bring in some new, new ingredients.

How old are some of the buildings that you're working with?

The majority of them are turn of century.

Yeah.

So our phase one was the open produce building, right?

That was built in 1896.

Wow.

We utilized historic tax credits on that.

And so we're really proud that we were able to reposition that building in its original glory.

Absolutely no disrespect to the businesses that are on that street, but it always felt like the back door to the Mud Hens, right?

Like it's the I mean, the most significant thing on that block just seemed to be the service entrance to this third field.

And what you guys are doing with Huron Yards is, I mean, truly redefining what that road looks like.

It's it's really cool.

What's there now and what will be coming to here on yards.

So phase one open produce building includes 14 apartments, a small office space.

We're currently finishing a grocery store on the first floor.

All right.

A neighborhood market.

We still have a little bit of commercial space left on the first floor of that building.

And then phase two was the acquisition of the Blarney Real Estate, as well as completing our beer garden and the old alleyway building, which is now our restaurant, which opened this weekend.

The station.

So fun.

It's great.

Good, good.

And we'll have co-working space up above the the station.

So, yeah, I mean, to your earlier point, I think that beer garden in particular, you know, it used to be a truck lot with a loading dock that stabbed two buildings together.

Yes.

How'd you think a lot of people drank in it?

Yeah, I think so.

So, you know.

We're keeping the history alive.

Stick to the theme.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it.

Yeah.

Given what they want.

You.

Know, right on the other.

Side of the the beer garden, we also have the building that has Huron Street Studios, the glassblowing shop.

Oh, okay.

And right behind that is one of Fenton Toledo's best kept secrets, which is Toledo's share winery and wine room.

I've been guests on the show.

Very cool.

Alleyway entrance.

Sort of.

Sort of secret speakeasy.

Kind of.

You have.

To have that past.

You do have to have the password.

Yeah.

Very cool.

Talk to talk to me about historic tax credits.

I mean, that's a piece of how you guys all this stuff together.

What I mean, is there how challenging has that been for you guys?

Do you feel like you've sort of become experts on this now that you can see a building and be like, I know what we're doing.

Yeah.

Cause there's some I mean, there's some rules there that you have to follow.

Some rules.

Absolutely.

And downtown development is is really challenging.

Yes it is.

The the environments tough in terms of interest rates and cost of construction.

And you know, in this market, you know, rents, you know, if you compare them nationally are pretty low.

And so when you have low rents and high cost of construction, it makes it really difficult to build things and to attract investment.

So you have to get really scrappy and you have to get really smart in terms of how you use these programs, because they're absolutely critical.

And we're going to try to achieve that mission of accelerating the redevelopment.

We've got to be creative to figure out how to do that.

And so the historic tax credits are, you know, they're really essential to be able to make these deals happen and to be able to change change these properties.

If you could wave a magic wand, what's something that's missing downtown if funding and and and all of the other things around building something weren't an issue.

What what would you drop into downtown to make it better?

I would drive more retail.

I think that I think that unique experience of smaller boutiques or interesting, you know, offerings is hopefully the next step for for downtown.

Do you guys have your eye on another area like that corridor of Adam Street or where you are in here?

I can't tell you that because then the price will go up.

Well, we do have a third phase to here on yards.

So that building that currently houses here on street studios and the winery, the floors above there are still in need of, of redevelopment.

So cool place that.

Yeah it would be.

Very cool.

Those windows in those buildings are very cool.

Yeah.

And that's a concrete structure too.

So you know, whereas a lot of these warehouses are wood or timber and brick, this one's all concrete.

So it's a wholly different esthetic which I think will be really exciting.

From a construction side.

And certainly you both must have an answer for this, but what what are the pieces of the process that you enjoy the most?

I mean, net negotiating, tax credits and things of that for ID.

Is excruciating.

Those are my words.

But, you know, is it the the in my opinion, the first part in the in part.

Everyone likes the idea portion.

Super fun.

And then the party when you have the thing is great.

The middle is where you kind of cut your teeth and where people sort of sort of rise above others.

The process.

Middle part.

What's your favorite part of that for the two of you?

I love the middle part, I really do.

You know, we kind of pride ourselves on.

We plan slowly, we build it on paper, and then we try to execute quickly.

And so that that middle execution phase is very challenging.

But every day you go home.

It looks different than when you got there in the morning.

And so to have a physical product of the hard work, you know, that's really satisfying.

That's well said.

Matt, how about you?

You know, it's there's different challenges and problems that that come up every.

Question match.

I think.

You know, I think it's I think it's the people because when you're, you know, when.

In.

The best of characters.

It's the.

Characters.

Because in that, you know, the early planning stages, you know, it's truly an eye on a conference room, just trying to figure out how to make the numbers work.

And I'm saying you got to bring cost construction down and you got to bring.

It up.

Yeah.

And, you know, eventually we figured it out.

But then, you know, when we're in the field and things are getting built and you meet the people that are engaged in these buildings every day, and they tell you the stories about how they're parents or their cousins used to work at the Oak and Produce building.

I mean, that was probably.

Every single person of anybody in the building had some kind of story of somebody that they knew that worked there, so that that part of being really intertwined in the history that happens, like while we're actually doing it.

Yeah.

We're talking with Matt Rubin and Julia Randles with Crane Development.

Gretchen, I just want to make sure you heard him say, rents going up.

I think I heard construction costs me to come down.

Real quick.

It's now time for Gretchen.

Wacky quiz.

Rapid fire questions.

Here we go.

For both of you.

If you're making dinner tonight, what are you making?

I really have.

I want some pasta.

I've been craving it.

I think spaghetti.

We do a lot of the the ready made Costco dinner, so maybe salmon would be.

All right.

All right.

You find a genie, have three wishes.

You can't wish for more wishes.

Oh.

I want higher rents, lower construction costs and more capital.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, right.

I've got the seven.

An eight year old and a four year old and.

And one of them told me that if you if you can't wish for wishes, you should have a notebook.

And then ask that anything that you write down in the notebook would come true.

And so that's the one that I would.

Okay.

That's one of.

The reasons that I would ask.

So I. Got I got to credit my kids.

For that.

Yeah.

My kids dumb.

That's you could have dinner with anyone from history.

Who would it be?

Van Morrison.

Moses and Morrison love to drink in the old trucks.

I don't think.

He drinks anymore.

Yeah, that's what it used to.

Yeah.

All right.

What do you think you're gonna dream about tonight?

And why is it Matt Killam?

Yeah.

That's my Irish wrote that.

Thank you, John Walsh.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yes.

Good dream about stone walls is that, you know, that sounds like a nightmare to me, but.

Yeah.

Good for you.

Julia.

Matt, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you.

Thank you for it.

We're taking a break.

When we come back, we'll be joined by Andrew Newby.

We'll be right back on the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

We're joined by a friend of the show, Andrew Newby.

We had you on.

Good morning.

Hi.

Hello.

Good afternoon.

Good evening.

Good day.

I feel like, What is that?

Oh, my goodness, that's the Truman Show.

Yeah, right.

That's what this is.

That really.

This is all.

We're all actors.

We're all actors.

This isn't real.

No no no no.

Wait.

What?

Andrew, thank you so much for joining us.

We had John last time talking about Toledo spirits.

Yes.

Let's just kind of start there.

I think people may know you from that space, but let's just.

If people aren't familiar with flu spirits.

Yeah.

What do you guys up to?

Yeah.

You know, Pluto spirits down on some street in the Vistula neighborhood with our cocktail bar, bellwether.

And we are making fantastic, fantastic spirits meaningfully sourced from our region or inspired by our region.

And always, always a fun, fun time.

Our next big launch for Toledo Pierce is going to be a ten year old bourbon that will launch next month.

And canned cocktails.

We'll start coming out here soon.

That's I mean, when I first discovered you guys, it was through your Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, brand.

And, like, I was fascinated by when I did a tour of the facility, like, you had stuff that was, you know, on the shelf that we're not going to touch that for for a decade.

Right.

Right.

How do you know how long?

I mean, have you had one where it's like, hey, we're going to keep this here for five years.

And then you take it down and you're like, that was a waste of five years.

Yeah, absolutely.

It is.

The, You don't want to forget about it.

Like.

I forgot we have those 100 barrels sitting over there.

But that is that is part of that process.

Patience is such an important ingredient in that process because, when you're aging something, being up, being able to figure out where that line is, where it pushed over to something that maybe isn't as exciting just because it's maybe gotten to smooth and that's not that interesting.

So that is definitely part of the process, aging, testing and thinking through that aspect of it.

What's going to do what it's going to do.

But it's kind of hard to predict, hey, this particular set of ingredients in this particular environment is going to do this exact thing.

So seeing.

Some.

Amazing videos online, also of the, karaoke brunch.

So.

There appears to be dancing on tables there.

There does appear to be some dancing on tables, but it looks and then them being thoroughly sanitized.

Because that's really important.

The important part of that step is.

In.

The early sanitizing.

Yeah.

So one of the things that we try to do with our craft spirits is really trying to create experiences that help you engage with making these really interesting things we're making.

Yeah.

But here's all this other stuff to kind of move that along.

Right.

So, we do it once a month.

Group karaoke, brunch, a sing along, sing along.

Lucy.

Brunch.

It is a blast.

Then every Sunday, we do a boozy bingo brunch.

And it's just a fun.

A fun way of doing something different.

Relaxing, easy environment.

Great food, great people, great cocktails.

Speaking of the environment and a lot of patients.

And in Toledo.

Yes, yes.

Sort of.

All those things.

Somehow all those things go into a blender and do it takes every one of them simultaneously, almost to repurpose, cultivate urban green space to serve the greater.

So I don't want to step on the toes of of a great narrative.

Can you talk us a little bit about the birth of this?

Even conceptually, for those of the people who might not understand what the idea of community gardens are, but this is sort of a next level up from that.

That's right.

Yeah.

Through this.

Yeah.

So cultivates lido.

I founded with Thomas Waggoner, who was a retired exec from Andersons.

We met through the United Way.

And he brought this idea to Toledo about developing some of our underused spaces into for profit farms.

And so, over the course of about the past two years, we engaged with the community, went to the existing urban farmers, went to these organizations that are doing that hard work.

And really just explored how would we go about developing urban farms in the, in the urban core, in the, in the city?

And spent a lot of time modeling that out and kind of working through what that program would be.

And out of that came Cultivate Toledo, which is really all about creating a self-sustaining food system.

How do we harvest?

How do we utilize the blight?

How do we leverage the blight that we have in our in our neighborhoods?

How do we turn those into small farms?

How do we train individuals from the neighborhoods to work those farms?

How do we then harvest that produce?

How do we then sell that produce back into the local, the local market, the local economy, and return those dollars back to those individuals that have been working that farm?

Are you talking.

Like.

Abandoned properties.

Turned into outdoor farms.

Or these.

Buildings.

Turned into.

So we're focusing in on and that's that that's that comes up a lot about, hey, we've got a lot of underutilized open space, open, open, physical indoor space.

But we're really focused in on empty lots.

So the city has gone through with the land bank in, gotten rid a lot of this blight these houses and cleared a lot of space.

Fantastic strategy.

But now we have about 1700 empty lots in the city that there's, you know, always concepts, always conversations around building new housing and that kind of infill.

But we're pretty far away from, I think, what that's going to be.

And I think, if we were to think about even 10% of those, 25% of those turning those into urban farms, we can produce at about 15%, we could produce about $6 million back into the local economy.

We could produce about 161 1.6 million tons of food grown locally.

And that's even just thinking about us.

Like from a consumer perspective, I want have access to locally grown produce.

Why should it be shipping from somewhere else when we can grow it right here and return those dollars back into the community?

If I was a cynic and I was listening right now, yeah, there's if there's three.

I don't think anyone's ever accused.

He's not listening, though, so it doesn't.

That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

That's what cuts down to my senses.

So there's three main and I want because I know the answer to this.

I want to make sure everyone hears it.

Yeah.

I guess first of all, there is no the most important ingredient to what we've talked about here is good soil and good earth.

Right?

So if someone was seeing somewhere like, is this are these plots, parcels, vacant lots suitable for things to put in your mouth.

Tell them why it is so.

We're actually building on top.

So it would be wonderful to have a mediation strategy.

There's lots of different ways we could go about that.

And I think eventually down the road, if I was to get three wishes, that would be one of them, that we'd be able to do that.

But we're really focusing in on.

We're actually covering the ground first and we're building on top.

And that allows us to really move past that entire conversation.

It allows us more efficiency as far as irrigation goes, allows us more efficiency as far as the growing medium goes.

And then we can also develop that medium to the things that we're going to grow.

That's a great answer and I know it to be true.

Yeah.

The next potentially is the more challenging.

So the math exercise of this right.

Absolutely.

Let's put the human capital in first.

Farming is hard work right.

Yes.

And people nowadays are always talking about how much young people or anyone doesn't want to work anymore.

Yeah.

The human capital of this, there is a willing and able.

And I know there's an educational part of this.

Two terms of training.

There's a workforce that can support Cultivate Toledo, in your opinion?

Yeah.

We have, a significant number of individuals that are ready.

We had farms for them.

Great.

I think one of the, you know, farming is hard work, and that is, you know, there is no there is no one saying in this process that, you know, hey, this is going to be really easy for everybody.

But one of the things we decided early on with Cultivates Lido is that we really want to be the facilitators for the urban farms.

So we think of these individuals as farmer entrepreneurs.

And what we're doing is we're we're eliminating the bureaucracy of starting up a farm, and we're eliminating the hassle of selling the produce.

So the front end, in the back end cultivated takes care of those things for the farmer.

They can just.

Grow so they can focus on growing.

And we provide that training so they can learn how to grow.

We we provide oversight.

So they're well maintained that don't feel like they're lost.

They don't feel like they're alone.

And they can focus on growing.

And that really is kind of the joy as the joyful aspect of the farming.

Yeah.

How do you or.

The farmers decide what to grow?

So we've gone around the state and talked to a number of other farms that are doing something similar to this and really analyzed with, with their help, what's what was profitable, what wasn't profitable.

And we've really focused in on core crops that every single type of cuisine could use.

So carrots, tomatoes, lettuce, spinach, those types of things that are very straightforward to grow but also are consumed in a number of different ways and a number of different cuisines in a number of different formats.

At the.

Risk of like kind of over.

Like inserting myself in the business plan, right?

But I. Think about like if I'm a restaurant and I need, you know, however many, you know, pounds of lettuce every month.

Yes.

This one farm, this one farmer isn't going to be enough for me.

Absolutely.

That's why this is this has to include multiple farms.

So our model shows we need 100 farms in, in Toledo to truly make that an effective story, that we can go someplace, we can go to a restaurant, or we can go to an institution, or we can go to, ideally, a food processor that's making a large amount of something and get a contract from them for a volume.

So now we've got a, a very large number of farms all supplying for that one particular, that one particular contract.

The I guess the last sort of challenge to me is consumer based, right?

So we are a fast paced, overly processed.

Yeah.

When's last time you ate a vegetable?

That's what I mean.

Right.

So again, I'm not not a soapbox thing by any means, but you're also sort of reintroducing that this is actually what people should be eating.

Yeah.

So the nutrition aspect of it, the health aspect of it is an extraordinarily important piece.

Unfortunately that's a layup.

And well.

It's it's really interesting because it's actually the other side of, you know, our what we do at Toledo Spirits is that this is this is a time where people are thinking more health conscious.

They are being more aware of what they're consuming.

So what they're consuming, they're being more discerning about.

And I think it works for both both sides of of that equation.

Yeah.

You're saying Heart of Glass is good for your heart?

Yeah.

That's why it says heart.

Yeah.

The heart of glasses.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My cardiologist approved.

Yes.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Gin has a lot of botanicals in it, so it's, you know, it's it's a salad.

Yeah.

That's right Here first.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think that I think that is an extremely important aspect of it.

And I think, the, the trends culturally are of course, I think are heading that direction.

But also I think just the desire that of, of eating something grown locally, that's people want that if they have easy access to it.

And that's, that's a big part of this of our concept for a food hub or a food aggregation point where we want to make this so it's easy to access these things.

How can people get involved if they are living next door to an abandoned lot?

Yes.

How do they get involved if they own a restaurant and want to buy carrots from you?

How do they get involved?

What what what are the ways, some ways that people can plug into this concept.

So they can learn more at Cultivate Toledo or, restaurants being able to register to say they're interested.

When we have produce available, there's a list, a text message or an email that goes out on Mondays when we have inventory to say, hey, here's here's what's available.

Individuals being able to support us in other ways, including even time and volunteering around special skills or even just saying, hey, we're we're about to build a new farm.

We definitely need help coming and clearing and and getting it prepped, getting the site prepped.

To that end, where to where the equipment gets loaned, shared.

What is the yeah.

So that's part of the model is that we will create a tool library that people will be able to use those, you know, for the most part for these farms talking about a lot of small hand tools.

We set up irrigation.

We set up automation around those things.

But eventually thinking about having a an excavator or a spreader or anything else like that.

You say 100 farms is a.

100 farms and our is our goal.

We want to convert 250 lots in the city of Toledo to 100 farms.

Wow.

Where are you at today?

We've got one.

Sure, I'll start somewhere.

But that was really about slow rolling.

The.

Well, there's.

So much.

Yeah, right.

So figuring out, like, how we wanted to lay out a farm, figure out what works.

So we spent the first year with that farm, really just just kind of figuring out what what works here.

But the, the second year of that farm, produced a lot of produce.

We started a partnership with Mobile Meals of Toledo.

So they are a dedicated customer now that we can sell most things that we grow to.

So, it's definitely a process that takes time and patience, whether we're talking about tomatoes or bourbon.

Andrew Newby, Toledo Spirits and Cultivate Toledo one more time on the website.

Cultivate Toledo.

Org.

There you go.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

We come back, we'll wrap up this edition of the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

Man.

What?

What a great show.

It's a good show.

This is what I love about this program.

And and I'm so excited to be back here for season two is, you know, we had three very different conversations.

But the common thread through all of them is people that are connected to their passion and using it to make our community better.

Yeah.

I mean, Andrew is just the last example that we just talked to.

I mean, the definition of an entrepreneur owns a company.

His wife owns a company.

They they have the coffee plates, they have spirits.

I mean, and then in addition to that, he takes the time and energy and interest in educating himself on these community gardens and then and developing cultivate Toledo to, to better means to, to a better end to the community.

And Matt.

Julia.

Right.

Saying, hey, here's some buildings.

Let's let's redevelop these.

Yeah.

To increase housing, increase retail, a grocery store coming to downtown, reimagine this neighborhood.

And then obviously, what Todd's doing at the University of Toledo with native plants, you know, inspiring the next generation.

I mentioned that, you know, I just like I, I when I see his excitement.

You know, for those rocks in my backyard, and I'm just like, I just don't care.

I wish I did, but I don't.

If you had.

If I had him.

Yeah.

That's right.

Absolutely.

This is what I love about this program.

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Thanks to all of our guests for joining us.

Thanks to you for joining us as well for another episode of the 419 for Matt.

Gretchen, I'm Kevin Mullin.

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