ANNOUNCER: THIS PROGRAM WAS PRODUCED IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE PULITZER CENTER.

(MUSIC) BILL HARRIS: HELLO, AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I'M BILL HARRIS, AND WE WANT TO WELCOME YOU TO THIS PROGRAM WGTE TELEVISION TOWN HALL MEETING ON INFANT MORTALITY.

THE TRAGEDY INFANT MORTALITY IS DEFINED AS THE DEATH OF A CHILD BEFORE ITS FIRST BIRTHDAY.

NOW, MOST PEOPLE AREN'T AWARE OF THIS, BUT LUCAS COUNTY HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST INFANT MORTALITY RATE, OR RATHER, LUCAS COUNTY HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST INFANT MORTALITY RATES IN THE STATE OF OHIO.

WHAT'S EVEN MORE ALARMING IS THAT THE MORE MORTALITY RATE FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS IS ALMOST TRIPLE THAT OF CAUCASIAN INFANTS.

THE CAUSES VARY FROM PRETERM BIRTH AND LOW BIRTH WEIGHT TO HUNGER IN HOUSING AND STRESS.

WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP OUR MOTHERS WITH CLINICAL ISSUES AT BIRTH, KEEPING THEIR BABIES HEALTHY, AND THEN GETTING THEM TO THEIR FIRST BIRTHDAY?

WELL, WE HAVE AMASSED A PANEL OF EXPERTS WHO ARE DOWN IN THE TRENCHES IN THE FIGHT AGAINST INFANT MORTALITY.

AND THEY ARE HERE TO BRING THE ISSUE TO THE SPOTLIGHT WHERE IT REALLY SHOULD BE THERE ON WITH VITAL INFORMATION SUCH AS TRENDS AND STATISTICS WITH RESEARCH ON WHY THERE IS SUCH A RACIAL DISPARITY ON THIS ISSUE, AND MUCH NEEDED INFORMATION ON THE VARIOUS RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO MOTHERS THAT NEED HELP.

AND YOU KNOW, THERE IS A SAYING IT TAKES A VILLAGE TO RAISE A CHILD AND THERE ARE PEOPLE AND ORGANIZATIONS RIGHT HERE IN OUR AREA LOCALLY, THAT ARE WILLING TO HELP.

NOW YOU CAN BE A PART OF THIS LIVE DISCUSSION.

THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS THAT YOU CAN JOIN US AND CONTACT US THE INFORMATION IS ON YOUR SCREEN.

WHEN YOU DO CONTACT US, YOU CAN ASK A QUESTION AND REQUEST INFORMATION BY WAY OF A PACKET THAT WILL BE MAILED TO YOU.

JOINING ME NOW IS OLA DANIELLE AVERY AND OB GYN LABOR AND DELIVERY NURSE.

SHE'S ALSO JOINED BY JULIE HOFF, WHO IS THE PROGRAM DIRECTOR OF MOM'S HOUSE OF TOLEDO.

AND FINALLY ROUNDING OFF OUR PANEL, DR. ERIC SZALINSKI.

AND HE IS THE LUCAS COUNTY HEALTH COMMISSIONER, WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU ALL WITH US TODAY.

THAT I'D LIKE TO START WITH YOU BY ASKING WHY DOES LUCAS COUNTY HAVE SUCH A HIGH RATE OF INFANT MORTALITY?

ERIC ZGODZINSKI: YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS ONE SIMILAR ANSWER, WE WOULDN'T HAVE A HIGH RATE OF INFANT MORTALITY IN OUR COMMUNITY, IT'S A EXTREMELY WICKED PROBLEM.

THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT GO INTO THE HIGH RATE OF INFANT MORTALITY WITH INSIDE LUCAS COUNTY, FROM THE THE THE LACK OF FOOD IN SOME AREAS TO THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE THAT THEY LIVE IN, THOSE INDIVIDUALS LIVE IN TO THE IDEA OF STRESSES ON THOSE MOMS, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, LOOKING AT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, THE SYSTEMIC RACISM PLAYS A HUGE ROLE IN THIS.

AND IF YOU GET DOWN IN THE WEEDS WITH SYSTEMIC RACISM, YOU'RE LOOKING AT, AGAIN, WHERE DO THEY LIVE, OR THE SERVICES THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE?

IT, THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THERE IS A WHOLE HOST OF INDIVIDUALS INSIDE THIS COMMUNITY THAT ARE ATTEMPTING TO ATTACK AND FOR MORTALITY, NOT JUST THE ONES THAT WE HAVE IN THE PANEL TODAY, BUT THERE ARE SO MANY HOSPITAL COUNTS IN NORTHWEST OHIO.

IT GOES ON AND ON.

IF WE KNOW THAT IT IS ISSUE AND WE HAVE WE HAVE TO FIGHT IT AND WE HAVE TO WIN IT.

BILL HARRIS: LET'S BACK UP A LITTLE BIT AND GO TO THE DOCUMENT THAT WE JUST SAW IN THE PREVIOUS HALF HOUR AND WITH A PART OF THE DEALING WITH A LITTLE KID BY THE NAME OF AMARRIAN.

THE HOW'S HE DOING NOW?

AND FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T GET TO SEE THE DOCUMENTARY IN THE PREVIOUS HALF HOUR, BRING US UP TO SPEED ON WHERE HE WAS THE BEGINNING AND WHAT HIS PROGRESS HAS BEEN LIKE?

JULIE HAAS: ABSOLUTELY.

SO AMARRIAN CAME TO US WHEN HE WAS SIX WEEKS OLD, WHICH IS TYPICALLY THE EARLIEST THAT WE WILL TAKE THOSE KIDS INTO MOM'S HOUSE AND HE WAS BORN PREMATURELY.

HE DID NOT HAVE ALL OF HIS INTERNAL INTERNAL ORGANS DEVELOPED YET.

AND SO HE STARTED OUT AS WEEKLY DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENTS.

A FRUSTRATED MOTHER, SHE WAS YOUNG, SHE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO OR HOW TO DO IT.

AND HE WAS BEHIND ON HIS DEVELOPMENT.

BUT WE ARE HAPPY TO SAY THAT HE IS NOW HE WILL BE TO AT THE END OF JUNE.

HE IS MEETING EVERY DEVELOPMENTAL BENCHMARK THAT WE ASSESS THEM ON IN OUR PROGRAM.

AND HE RECENTLY STARTED TALKING AND USING SENTENCES AND TALKING WITH HIS OTHER TODDLER FRIENDS SO HE HAS MADE STRIDES AND IS NOW ONLY DOING APPOINTMENTS ON A MAINTENANCE BASIS INSTEAD OF A WEEKLY BASIS.

BILL HARRIS: VERY GOOD SUCCESS STORY.

YEAH, IT'S AMAZING.

HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET ONE OF THOSE AS WE MOVE AHEAD.

AS A NURSE, CAN YOU TELL ME HOW DO YOU HANDLE THESE HIGH RISK SITUATIONS AT BIRTH AND THE LIKE, AND EVEN IN BEYOND THAT, TO GET THIS CHILD, ANY CHILD TO THEIR FIRST BIRTHDAY, OLLA DANIELLE AVERY: ARE HIGH RISK SITUATIONS ARE MANAGED WITH LOTS OF EDUCATION FOR OUR STAFF, BEING VERY EVIDENCE BASED IN OUR PRACTICES, HELPS US TO MAKE ENSURE THAT WE'RE DOING THE SAFEST THING FOR OUR MOM AND OUR BABIES.

BILL HARRIS: AND SO THAT'S THAT, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD START.

BUT HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU FOLLOW THAT THROUGH TO GET THAT CHILD TO THEIR, TO THEIR FIRST BIRTHDAY?

OLLA DANIELLE AVERY: YOU KNOW, EDUCATION OF THE PARENT, AND KEEPING THEM INVOLVED IN THE DECISION MAKING FOR THEIR CHILD'S HEALTH.

YEAH, WHAT?

YEAH, EMPOWERING THE MOTHER.

YEAH.

YOU KNOW, AT BIRTH, THE VACCINATION SCALE, THE VACCINATION SCALE STARTS, AND EDUCATING THE MOMS ABOUT WHY WE VACCINATE AND HOW THIS WILL HELP YOUR CHILD IN THE LONG RUN, THINGS OF THAT NATURE, WHAT VACCINATIONS WILL AND WILL NOT DO, WHAT RUMORS HAVE SCARED PEOPLE AWAY FROM VACCINATIONS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE, BILL HARRIS: WELL, ALMOST LIKE COVID, THEN THAT SAME KIND OF FEAR, IT CAN BE YES.

ISN'T THAT INTERESTING?

HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT DOCTOR DOGS DEFINITELY, ERIC ZGODZINSKI: YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THERE IS APPREHENSION, ESPECIALLY AFTER AMERICAN COMMUNITY ABOUT VACCINATIONS, AND YOU SAID IT VERY WELL, THAT AGAIN, THAT HASN'T SEE WHETHER IT'S COVID, OR FOR THOSE KOTA IMMUNIZATIONS.

WE HAVE TO KNOCK THAT DOWN.

AND AGAIN, THAT IS A TRUST THING.

AND I'M SURE YOU SEE THAT EVERY DAY.

YEAH.

BILL HARRIS: DO IS IS THERE ONE PARTICULAR CAUSE THAT IS MORE PREVALENT THAN ANOTHER IN WHETHER IT'S SOCIAL OR MEDICAL THAT LEADS US TO THE HIGH INFANT MORTALITY RATE WE HAVE JULIE HAAS: ON THE DOCUMENTARY, IT TALKED ABOUT LOW BIRTH WEIGHT?

PREMATURE, BUT IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS, I BELIEVE IT IS BOTH I DON'T THINK YOU CAN CLASSIFY IT AS JUST A SOCIAL ISSUE, JUST A MEDICAL ISSUE.

YOU SAID AT THE BEGINNING, IT TAKES A VILLAGE, RIGHT.

BUT FOR SOME OF THESE YOUNG LADIES WHO ARE HAVING BABIES, WHAT IF THEIR VILLAGE DOESN'T EXIST?

BILL HARRIS: THAT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT, WHAT IF THE VILLAGE DOESN'T EXIST?

WHAT HAPPENS?

IF IT DOESN'T EXIST, JULIE HAAS: THEN YOU HAVE TO BUILD YOUR OWN VILLAGE.

BUT FOR SOME OF THESE YOUNG LADIES, IF THEY'VE NEVER HAD A VILLAGE, THEY MAY NOT KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

SO THEN THEY TAKE THE TIME AND THEY START TO BUILD THIS VILLAGE.

BUT AS WITH ALL THE WRONG PEOPLE, IT DOESN'T WORK IN THE SENSE THAT WHAT THEY NEED THE ACCESS TO, THEY NEED PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO ENCOURAGE THEM THAT ARE GOING TO LEAD THEM TO THE RESOURCES THAT ARE GOING TO EMPOWER THEM, TO PUT THEM IN THE TRAJECTORY OF PROVIDING THOSE TYPES OF SERVICES FOR HER AS A PARENT AND HER CHILD, WHETHER THAT'S EDUCATION, WHETHER THAT'S FINDING A CONSISTENT MEDICAL DOCTOR, TO GO SEE FOR THE FAMILIES.

AND SO SOMETIMES WHAT THEY THINK, AND THEIR PERCEPTION OF WHAT A VILLAGE SHOULD BE, IS NOT WHAT IS GOING TO BENEFIT THEM THE MOST.

BILL HARRIS: YOU KNOW FROM WHAT I'VE READ ON THE DEPRESSED MOTHER?

NO, WE'RE ABOUT TO BE MOTHER THAT IS DEPRESSED.

THIS IS THIS IS NOT AN UNCOMMON THING.

IN THIS AREA OF DISCUSSION, DO YOU SEE MOTHERS THAT HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF STRESS, AND IF SO, WHAT WHAT THE FACTORS THAT LEAD INTO THE STRESS OLLA DANIELLE AVERY: PREGNANCY AND AS A WHOLE IS CAN BE A STRESSFUL CONDITION.

IT'S NOT AN ILLNESS.

SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ATTACK IN THE SAME WAY.

BUT PREGNANCY DOES CHANGE YOUR BODY, IT CHANGES YOUR HORMONES, IT CHANGES HOW YOU FEEL.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS PLAY INTO HOW A WOMAN IS GOING TO PROCESS NEW INFORMATION.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT SHE FEELS SUPPORTED AND SAFE, SO THAT SHE CAN GROW THE HEALTHIEST BABY.

AND IN TERMS OF DEPRESSION, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE I WANT TO MAKE SURE AS A HEALTHCARE PROVIDER THAT I AM DOING MY VERY BEST AT THE BEDSIDE WHEN I INTERACT TO BE PRESENT WITH MY PATIENT TO LISTEN TO HER CONCERNS, TO EDUCATE HER WHERE THE KNOWLEDGE GAPS MAY BE.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS WILL ADD UP TO A MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE MEMBER IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT HOPEFULLY COULD SHARE THAT WITH OTHER WOMEN IN HER POSITION BILL HARRIS: WITHOUT REVEALING ANYTHING PRIVATE ABOUT ANYBODY'S SITUATION CAN YOU GIVE JUST GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE SAID, A CASE THAT YOU HAVE DEALT WITH AND WHAT YOU'VE HAD TO SAY TO A MOTHER TO REALLY MAKE HER FEEL CALM AND INSECURE.

OLLA DANIELLE AVERY: I HAVE HAD PATIENTS WITH DANGEROUSLY HIGH BLOOD PRESSURES AND DUE TO THE FACT THAT SHE HAD UNSTABLE CHILDCARE, SHE WANTED TO LEAVE THE HOSPITAL AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE.

AND WE TALKED OVER THE COURSE OF MY 12 HOURS ABOUT THE RISKS THAT SHE WOULD INCUR LEAVING THE HOSPITAL VERSUS HOW INCONVENIENT HER LIFE WOULD BE.

OR HER HER VILLAGE, HER VILLAGES LIFE WOULD BE INCONVENIENCED BY HER REMAINING IN THE HOSPITAL.

AND IT WAS, IT WAS LITERALLY AN EIGHT HOUR CONVERSATION THAT WE WENT BACK AND FORTH, BECAUSE SHE WAS PACKED AND READY TO WALK OUT THE DOOR.

EVERY TIME I WALKED IN, AND HER BLOOD PRESSURES WERE FRIGHTENINGLY HIGH, SHE WAS IN DANGER.

AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A SITUATION WHERE WE WOULD HAVE BEEN EXPECTING MATERNAL MORTALITY, BECAUSE SHE HAD BEEN, SHE HAD LEFT AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE.

YEAH.

BUT IT WAS BECAUSE OF HER CIRCUMSTANCE BECAUSE OF HER VILLAGE FAILING HER.

THAT IS REALLY, BILL HARRIS: CAN YOU HOLD THE JUST THE MONITOR, I WANT TO CONTINUE ON THERE.

BUT I JUST WANTED FOR OUR VIEWERS AT HOME, TO LET YOU KNOW, REMEMBER, YOU CAN BE A PART OF THIS DISCUSSION HERE TONIGHT, AND THE INFORMATION IS ON YOUR SCREEN.

AND WHEN YOU CONTACT US, YOU CAN ASK US A QUESTION THAT WE WILL GIVE TO THE PANEL.

AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE WILL OH, WE ALSO WANT YOU TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

THOSE OF YOU WHO WANT TO INDEED BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU CAN CONTACT US USING THE SAME INFORMATION ON THE SCREEN.

AND WE CAN WE CAN TELL YOU ABOUT WAYS THAT YOU CAN GET INVOLVED.

AND YOU CAN HELP US NOW THAT YOU'RE ABOUT READY TO CHIME IN RIGHT ERIC ZGODZINSKI: BEHIND WHAT ALL I SAID ABOUT THE STRESSORS AND YES, BEING PREGNANT, HAS A HUGE STRESS.

BUT LET'S LOOK AT THE OTHER STRESSES TOO.

THAT MOM GOES IN?

DOES SHE KNOW WHAT SHE'S GOING TO LIVE?

DOES SHE KNOW HOW SHE'S GOING TO PAY FOR RENT?

HOW ABOUT THE FOOD ON OUR TABLE?

I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY OTHER THINGS THAT SOME SOME MOMS HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT OTHERS DON'T, THAT THOSE JUST THOSE STRESSORS JUST INCREASE IN CAUSES CONCERNS WITH THE PREGNANT MOM OR THE MAMA JUST GAVE BIRTH?

I MEAN, THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT WE SOMETIMES DON'T THINK ABOUT, BECAUSE WE CAN'T PUT OURSELVES INTO THOSE MOMS POSITIONS AND ALL THE STRESSES THAT THEY HAVE.

BILL HARRIS: YOU YOU WERE TALKING BEFORE AIR AND I ASKED YOU LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS FOR A MINUTE.

JULIE IN THE DOCUMENTARY, THERE WAS A BRIEF CONVERSATION ABOUT ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES, ACES, IT'S CALLED, CAN YOU SHARE HOW THESE COULD IMPACT THE MOTHER AND THE CHILD, ESPECIALLY THE ONES WHO REALLY NEED TO GET TO ONE OF THESE A REALLY AN JULIE HAAS: ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCE IS EVERYTHING THAT ERIC JUST STATED.

SO WHEN A YOUNG LADY IS PREGNANT, AND SHE IS LIVING IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, WHERE SHE IS GOING EVERY 24 HOURS TO FIGURE OUT WHERE SHE'S GOING TO SLEEP AT NIGHT, WHAT SHE'S GOING TO EAT, HOW SHE'S GOING TO EAT.

THAT IS A CONSTANT STRESS.

STRESSOR, TOXIC STRESS IS TYPICALLY THE COMMON TERM FOR IT.

BUT WHEN A BABY IS BORN INTO THAT ENVIRONMENT THAT IS ALREADY WHAT THEY CALL AN ACE OR AN ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCE.

AND 61% OF AMERICANS HAVE AT LEAST ONE ACE, AND THE MORE ACES THAT YOU HAVE, IT'S ON A SCALE OF ONE TO 10.

THE MORE ACES THAT YOU HAVE, THE MORE LIKELY YOU ARE TO DEVELOP CHRONIC HEALTH CONDITIONS.

SO IF A CHILD IS COMING INTO THIS WORLD ALREADY WITH ONE ACE, BECAUSE OF THE ENVIRONMENT THEY ARE BEING BORN INTO, AND THE UNKNOWN, THEN THEY'RE ALREADY STARTING OUT ON A CRACKED FOUNDATION.

YOU DON'T BUILD A HOUSE WITHOUT A FOUNDATION, RIGHT?

SO HOW CAN THESE FAMILIES, THESE MOMS, THESE BABIES BUILD THEIR VILLAGE?

IF IT'S ALREADY STARTING OUT CRACKED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

WHERE DOES THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT COME IN, IN THIS REGARD?

ERIC ZGODZINSKI: YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I MENTIONED THE NORTHWEST, NORTHWEST OF OUR HOSPITAL COUNCIL, AND THEY'RE A HUGE PARTNER WITH US.

AND WE ATTEMPT TO AGAIN GET AS MANY GRANTS AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.

THERE'S OTHER AGENCIES INSIDE OF THE COMMUNITY THAT ALSO GET GRANTS AND DO PHENOMENAL WORK IN SO MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS.

HEALTH DEPARTMENT REALLY ATTEMPTS TO TO WORK WITH ANY PARTNER POSSIBLY CAN AND COORDINATE.

AGAIN, WE CAN'T DO IT ON OUR OWN, YOU KNOW, THE HOSPITAL SYSTEMS CAN'T DO ON THEIR OWN, IT DOES REALLY TAKE A VILLAGE.

AND WHAT WE ATTEMPT TO DO IS BRING AS MUCH MONEY AS WE CAN INTO INTO LUCAS COUNTY, AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE PROGRAMS THAT ARE GOING TO HOPEFULLY MOVE THE NEEDLE ON IMPROVING MORTALITY, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T OFTEN TALK ABOUT IS THE FATHER FIGURE.

YEAH, WHERE'S DAD?

WHERE IS WHERE'S THAT DAD NEEDS TO BE THERE TOO.

THAT'S SO IMPORTANT.

JUST IT'S JUST CAN'T BE MOM.

AND SO AGAIN, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE TRY TO WORK OUT WORK ON TO IS MAKE SURE THAT DADS GET INVOLVED.

HOW SUCCESSFUL CAN YOU BE ON THAT?

WELL, AGAIN, IT IS ALWAYS AN UPHILL BATTLE.

BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO THE MIDDLE SOMEHOW AND AGAIN, MAKING SURE THAT THE SUPPORT SYSTEM WE TALKED ABOUT INCLUDES DAD BILL HARRIS: YOU KNOW, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT VOICE YOUR TIME WITH US.

I THOUGHT I REALLY WANTED YOU TO MAKE CLEAR ON THE AIR AND THE DISPARITY BETWEEN BLACK AND WHITE BABIES AND SOME OF THE DYNAMICS THAT EXIST BETWEEN THOSE TWO RACES.

CAN YOU EXPAND ON THAT OLLA DANIELLE AVERY : I WAS SHARING WITH THE PANEL EARLIER THAT I FIND IT REALLY DISHEARTENING THAT THE BABIES THAT ARE BORN PREMATURELY AND ADMITTED TO THE NICU, THE AFRICAN AMERICAN WHAT THAT IS, I'M SORRY, THE NEONATAL INTENSIVE CARE UNIT.

SO IT'S LIKE THE TEENY TINY BABIES.

ALL RIGHT, SO WE'RE PREEMIES GO UNTIL THEY'RE STRONG ENOUGH TO BREATHE ON THEIR OWN AND EAT AND MAINTAIN THEIR OWN TEMPERATURE.

THEY'RE THE TINIEST WARRIORS IN OUR HOSPITAL.

SO WHEN THEY'RE WORN PREMATURELY AND ADMITTED TO THE NICU, THE BABIES THAT TEND TO DO BEST, DESPITE PREMATURITY ARE THE AFRICAN AMERICAN BABY GIRLS, OR AVERAGE AND THEN AFRICAN AMERICAN BABY BOYS.

SO IT'S DISHEARTENING THAT THEY ARE THE STRONGEST FIGHTERS OR HAVE THE BEST SUCCESS RATE IN THE HOSPITAL, AND THEN WE DISCHARGE THEM HOME AND THEY'RE DYING AT A FASTER RATE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

THE WHAT'S CAUSING?

WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY HARD TO PIECE IT TOGETHER.

BUT IT'S THE FACT THAT YOU EXPLAIN THAT IT TAKES A VILLAGE TO RAISE A CHILD LIKE WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOUR VILLAGE HAS BEEN DISMANTLED?

BILL HARRIS: DID YOU SAY THAT FOR WHITE BABIES?

IS IT THE OPPOSITE?

OR WHAT?

WHAT'S THE DYNAMIC THERE OLLA DANIELLE AVERY: THAT WHITE BABIES DO POOR?

THEY'RE IN THE NICU.

AND THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS, BABIES DO HAVE MORE SUCCESS, BETTER, STRONGER.

SURVIVAL RATES IN THE IN THE HOSPITAL IN THE NEONATAL INTENSIVE CARE UNIT GAVE A NAME FOR THAT SITUATION THAT THAT CAN'T RECALL.

HOW YOU HOW YOU SAID IT, IT HAS BEEN REFERRED TO AS LIKE A WIMPY WHITE BOY PHENOMENON, THAT THE WHITE MALE NEONATES ARE THE ONES THAT STRUGGLE THE HARDEST TO OVERCOME THEIR HURDLES IN THE NICU.

AND THEN, BUT WHEN THEY GET OUT IN SOCIETY, THEY'RE DOING JUST FINE.

THEY'RE NOT DYING AT THE SAME RATE AS THE PEOPLE AS THE BABIES THAT WERE THRIVING.

IS THERE AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?

THAT, ERIC ZGODZINSKI: YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I THINK THERE THERE ARE SO MANY FACTORS.

ONE IS, YOU KNOW, CRIBS, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE HAVE A PROGRAM CRIBS, FOR CRIBS, YOU KNOW, KIDS, CRIBS FOR KIDS, EXCUSE ME.

AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES, MOMS DON'T KNOW THAT YOU REALLY SHOULD NOT BE SLEEPING WITH YOUR WITH YOUR CHILD, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD BE PUTTING THEM IN A CRIB.

AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME SOME CULTURAL THINGS THERE TOO.

YOU KNOW, FOR GENERATIONS, MAYBE A FAMILY HAS SAID, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE WAY WE'VE DONE IT FOR FOR EONS, WE'RE CONTINUING TO DO THAT WORK.

WE KNOW NOW THAT IT'S PROBABLY BETTER.

I KNOW, I REMEMBER BACK IN MY, MY FAMILY, MY DAD AND MY WOULD SLEEP WITH MY WITH MY SISTER THAT WELL, YOU CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE, YOU NEED TO PUT THEM IN A CRIB.

SO IT'S THAT TYPE OF THING.

I THINK YOU NEED TO DRILL DOWN AND FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHY THAT HAPPENS.

IT'S VERY INTERESTING.

AND THAT RESEARCH WOULD WOULD TELL US MAYBE WHAT COULD BE HAPPENING IN LUCAS COUNTY.

BILL HARRIS: AS FAR AS FOR WHAT WE'RE HERE TO ENCOURAGE OUR AUDIENCE REMEMBER, NOW YOU CAN YOU CAN BE A PART OF THIS DISCUSSION TONIGHT, WE WANT YOU TO CALL IN THE INFORMATION IS ON YOUR SCREEN WHERE YOU CAN CALL WITH YOUR QUESTIONS.

AND WHEN YOU CONTACT US WITH A QUESTION YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION, THEY'LL FUNNEL THAT QUESTION TO US TO GIVE TO THE PANEL.

AND ALSO, IF YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE TONIGHT, YOU CAN CONTACT US USING THE SAME INFORMATION THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN.

AND WE WILL TELL YOU ABOUT WAYS THAT YOU CAN GET INVOLVED AND HELP.

SO BY ALL MEANS, TAKE A MOMENT OF YOUR TIME RIGHT NOW.

GO TO THE PHONE, WE'VE GOT PEOPLE HERE IN THE STUDIO BEHIND US THAT ARE ON THE PHONE BANKS, AND THEY'RE READY TO TAKE YOUR CALLS RIGHT NOW.

SO YOU CAN ASK YOUR QUESTION, AND AT THE SAME TIME, YOU CAN REQUEST INFORMATION.

OKAY.

GO AHEAD.

JULIE HAAS: I WOULD LIKE KIND OF JUMP ON WITH WHAT ERIC WAS SAYING.

I THINK HEARING HIM TALK ABOUT THE CRIBS FOR KIDS PROGRAM THAT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT OFFERS.

IT GOES BACK TO THE EDUCATION PIECE THAT WAS REFERRED TO AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE PANEL.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S A THERE'S A LACK OF EMPOWERMENT TO GET THE EDUCATION EVEN, I'M NOT TALKING TO A DEGREE NECESSARILY, I'M TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IN THE HOSPITAL, WHEN YOU HAVE A BABY YOU WATCH VIDEOS TO LEARN HOW TO BATHE YOUR BABY YOU.

THEY GIVE YOU THESE TOOLS.

AND SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO REPEAT THOSE IN ORDER FOR THEM TO STICK.

BUT IT'S LIKELY THAT SOME OF THOSE YOUNG LADIES ONCE THEY LEAVE A HOSPITAL DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO CONTINUE EDUCATING THEMSELVES.

AND SO I THINK EDUCATION PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN THE SOLUTION TO INFANT MORTALITY.

OLLA DANIELLE AVERY: I'D LIKE TO ALSO PIGGYBACK ON THAT.

IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU HIT ON THE EDUCATION PIECE.

PART OF BEING EMPOWERED AND EDUCATED IS KNOWING WHERE YOUR RESOURCES ARE.

AND IF NO ONE EDUCATES YOU ABOUT CRIBS FOR KIDS, THEN YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO UTILIZE THE RESOURCES THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO YOU.

SO AGAIN, JUST SHARING THE INFORMATION, MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE IS INFORMED THAT THEY CAN UTILIZE AN ACCESS TO THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE IN THE COMMUNITY, IT WOULD DEFINITELY CHANGE WHAT PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO DO.

ABSOLUTELY.

BILL HARRIS: IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A COMBINATION OF BOTH MEDICAL AND SOCIAL AGENCIES IN THE LIGHT THAT COME TOGETHER TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM.

THAT'S, THAT'S GOING TO BE KEY GOING FORWARD, ISN'T IT TO COMBAT THIS?

JULIE HAAS: ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THERE ARE SO MANY RESOURCES IN THE AREA, I MEAN, WITHIN NORTHWEST OHIO, THERE ARE OVER THERE ARE 1000S OF NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE JUST ABLE AND ARE RECEIVING GRANT MONEY TO HELP PEOPLE IN ALL AREAS MEDICALLY, EDUCATIONALLY TRANSPORTATION RESOURCES.

IT'S JUST HAVING THE ABILITY TO FIND THEM.

AND SOMETIMES YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE TO START WITH THOSE RESOURCES.

BILL HARRIS: YOU'RE THE COUNTY LEVEL DOC, OF COURSE, IS COMMISSIONER OF THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

WHAT WOULD YOU FORESEE THAT CAN BE DONE AT THE STATE LEVEL, THE JR, SOME LAWS TO AN ACCIDENT LAWS THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL?

DO YOU HAVE ANY ACCESS TO STATE LEGISLATORS IN THE LIGHT TO TRY TO MAKE THESE THINGS HAPPEN?

ERIC ZGODZINSKI: YOU KNOW, UM, WE HAVE SOME VERY ACTIVE STATE LEGISLATURES FROM LUCAS COUNTY IN NORTHWEST OHIO THAT ARE FOCUSING IN ON ISSUES LIKE INFANT MORTALITY.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S A LACK OF DESIRE BY OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS, OR THE ABILITY TO, AGAIN, ENACT LAWS, WHAT WHAT I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT IS INTERNALLY, I THINK, AS A SOCIETY, I THINK THERE'S A SOCIETAL ISSUE WITH, WE'LL CALL IT THE SANCTITY OF LIFE, I THINK THERE'S A SOCIETY ISSUE OF ACCEPTANCE OF JUST THE NORM.

THERE'S AN ACCEPTANCE OF, YOU KNOW, WELL, THAT'S NOT REALLY MY PROBLEM.

I THINK MORTALITY IS EVERYBODY'S PROBLEM.

IT'S LIKE MANY PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEMS ARE EVERYBODY'S PROBLEM.

BUT LET'S LOOK AT INFANT MORTALITY.

I MEAN, WHAT CAN THE INDIVIDUAL DO YOU MEAN THAT TO BE A GREAT NURSE, YOU MIGHT NOT BE A DOCTOR, YOU MAY NOT HAVE A SOCIAL DEGREE, BUT CAN YOU HELP ME?

ARE YOU GOOD AT MATH?

CAN YOU HELP TUTOR SOMEBODY IN SCHOOL SO THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE WITH A BETTER EDUCATION GET A BETTER JOB, AND SO WE CAN REDUCE THE ISSUES OF THE SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS?

YOU KNOW, CAN YOU CAN YOU HELP DRIVE SOMEBODY TO A, TO AN APPOINTMENT TO A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT?

YOU KNOW, CAN YOU HELP CARB I MEAN, THE LOOK INTERNALLY OF YOUR SKILL SET TO HELP THE PROBLEM.

I THINK THAT'LL GO A LONG WAY.

BUT THE THE ISSUE OF I THINK, LOOKING AT LAWS, YOU KNOW, THE LEAD ISSUE IN LUCAS COUNTY, YEAH.

TOLEDO HAS THE COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR HAVE DONE A FABULOUS JOB OF TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MOVE THE NEEDLE THERE, AND WE'RE GOING TO MOVE THE NEEDLE, I'M CONFIDENT THAT WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS ATTACK THOSE TYPE OF PROBLEMS.

DON'T FORGET, THERE ARE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES THAT DO IMPACT MOMS, THE DADS AND THE BABIES.

SO WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THOSE AS WELL.

TISH, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LADY THANK WELL LED, YOU KNOW, WE'RE AN INDUSTRIAL COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO SAY WE'RE PAYING FOR THE SINS OF OUR PAST, BUT WE YOU KNOW, THOSE THOSE LEGACY ISSUES, YOU KNOW, SOILS, AND AIR AND WATER.

THOSE ARE ALL CONCERNS THAT WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING AS WELL.

AND, YOU KNOW, BILL HARRIS: WE STRUCK A NERVE IN THE AUDIENCE TONIGHT, BECAUSE ONE OF THE CALLS THAT CAME IN, SAYS THEY WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE DADS IN THIS PROBLEM OF INFANT MORTALITY.

NOW, HAVING A FATHER FIGURE IS SO IMPORTANT FOR THAT CHILD.

AND I HOPE ALL OF YOU JUMP IN ON THIS.

JULIE HAAS: SO I'LL START, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TAKE PRIDE IN AT MOM'S HOUSE IS INCLUDING THE DAD, WHETHER MOM AND DAD ARE TOGETHER, WHETHER THEY ARE STILL LEARNING THE BASICS OF CO PARENTING, BUT A DAD'S LIFE IN THE ROLE OF A CHILD IS ESSENTIAL.

BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS THAT A MOM HAS THE ABILITY TO EDUCATE HER CHILD ON, MODEL, CERTAIN BEHAVIORS, THERE ARE THINGS THAT DADS DO.

AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT THAT MAN IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THAT CHILD'S DAD.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF MOM IS WITH ANYBODY ELSE.

AND SO THAT ROLE THAT HE PLAYS IS GOING TO BE CRUCIAL.

AND SO PART OF THE VILLAGE IS IN THAT FOUNDATION IS GETTING MOM AND DAD TO THAT PLACE WHERE CO-PARENTING CAN EXIST, WHERE THEY CAN WORK TOGETHER.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THEM AND THEIR ISSUES AND WHATEVER CONFLICTS THAT THEY HAVE.

IT'S ABOUT THAT CHILD AND PUTTING THE FOCUS ON THAT CHILD AND THE DECISIONS THAT THEY MAKE AND WHAT IS GOING TO WORK BEST FOR THEM, ERIC ZGODZINSKI: CHILD, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE MOM, THE DAD HAS RESPONSIBILITY TO THE MOM, WHEN THEY COME HOME FROM THE HOSPITAL, I FEEL, YOU KNOW, I DEALT WITH MY YOUNGEST DAUGHTER ON A MONITOR FOR I THINK WAS EIGHT MONTHS AFTER SHE WAS BORN.

AND MY JOB WAS WAS REALLY TO HELP MY WIFE TO, YOU KNOW, TO BE ABLE TO SLEEP WHEN SHE COULD, I HAD TO HELP WITH A MONITOR, YOU KNOW, I HAD TO, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, TAKE CARE OF THE HOUSE, I DID THOSE THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT MY WIFE STRESS LEVELS WERE LOW.

AND SO YEAH, WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CHILD WITH THE DAD AND AND THOSE THINGS THAT CAN BE ADDED TO THAT CHILD'S LIFE FROM THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT, BUT WE CAN'T FORGET ABOUT THE HELP THAT THE FATHER FIGURE THAT OUT OF THAT MALE IN THAT IN THAT HOUSEHOLD HAS TO HELP THAT MOM, THROUGH THOSE THROUGH THOSE FIRST COUPLE MONTHS.

DEFINITELY BILL HARRIS: THERE'S EDUCATION NEEDED THERE.

WHAT DO YOU SAY THAT BECAUSE IF FOR SOME PARTICULAR REASON, WHEN A COUPLE GETS MARRIED YOUNG AND IF IF THAT POTENTIAL FATHER THAT HUSBAND FATHER HASN'T LEARNED THE IMPACT IS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, THE STRESS THAT'S ON A WOMAN, THE HORMONAL CHANGES THAT TAKE PLACE, THE BODY CHANGES, AND HOW THAT AFFECTS A WOMAN AND HE NEEDS TO KNOW THAT THAT IT'S ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT WE HAVE TO BE THERE TO SUPPORT HER.

ALTHOUGH THE NUMBERS STILL REMAIN HIGH HERE IN LUCAS COUNTY, THERE IS HELP WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE READY TO REACH OUT AND TO YOU AND YOUR BABIES.

NOW, BABIES THRIVE WHEN THEY GET PROPER CARE, AS WE'VE NOTED HERE TONIGHT, AND SO THE MOMS WHEN THEY GET THE PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL CARE THAT THEY NEED, AND WE ALL DO TONIGHT'S PROGRAM HAS BEEN A HELPFUL AS WELL HELPFUL ONE TO YOU AND IDENTIFYING THE PEOPLE AND THE RESOURCES THAT YOU CAN CONTACT ONE AT A TIME FOR THIS TOWN HALL MEETING TONIGHT AND I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR SPONSORS, THE PULITZER CENTER, OUR PANEL, OUR PHONE, VOLUNTEERS, AND ESPECIALLY THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE WATCHING HERE TONIGHT.

IM BILL HARRIS WE WANT TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THE TOWN HALL.

INFANT MORTALITY GOODNIGHT.

ANNOUNCER: THIS PROGRAM WAS PRODUCED IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE PULITZER CENTER (MUSIC) (MUSIC)