>> HELLO, I'M JAY BERSCHBACK, AND WELCOME TO THE WGTE TOWN HALL: DETECTING INVASIVE SPECIES IN THE GREAT LAKES.

DURING THIS HOUR, WE ARE DISCUSSING THE POTENTIAL OF INVASIVE SPECIES BEING INTRODUCED IN THE GREAT LAKES THROUGH BAIT SHOPS AND PAWN SUPPLY STORES AND THE RESEARCH THAT'S BEING CONDUCTED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO AND THE NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION, OR NOAA TO ADDRESS THIS CONCERN.

WE WILL ALSO HEAR FROM MEMBERS OF THE SPORT FISHING COMMUNITY AS WELL AS REGULATORY AGENCIES ON THE POTENTIAL IMPACT, INVASIVE SPECIES ON THE GREAT LAKES ECOSYSTEM.

IF YOU AT HOME HAVE ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, OR IF YOU WANT MORE INFORMATION, YOU CAN CONTACT THEM WITH THE RESEARCH TEAM OR CONTACT THE RESEARCH TEAM USING THE INFORMATION ON YOUR SCREEN.

TO GET OUR CONVERSATION STARTED, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THIS CLIP.

>> SO WHAT WE ARE DOING IS WE ARE LOOKING FOR INVASIVE SPECIES THAT MAY BE MIXED IN WITH THE REGULAR FISH BEING SOLD FOR BAIT.

>> THIS IS MORE OF A MARKET PROBLEM THAT WAS CREATED BY THE MARKET.

AND I LOOK AT THIS AS THE SOLUTION TO IT HAS TO BE A MARKET-BASED SOLUTION.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN DOING IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE SUPPLY CHAIN FOR THE BAIT, FOR THE BAIT STORES.

WHERE ARE THESE BAIT STORES GETTING THEIR BAIT?

WE HAVE MAPPED THE BAIT STORES AND THEN THE SUPPLIERS.

AND IF THERE'S A SOURCE THAT MIGHT BE MORE PRONE TO HAVING INVASIVE SPECIES IN IT, THEN THAT MAY BE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT.

>> FISHERMEN, THEY MAY TRAVEL A LONG WAY TO FISH, AND THEY MAY JUST PICK UP BAIT IN THEIR LOCAL WATERWAY.

THEY DON'T THINK ANYTHING ABOUT IT, THAT THEY ARE BRINGING IT INTO A DIFFERENT WATERSHED AND THEN THEY MAY RELEASE IT.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE ARE HOPING THAT OUR PROJECT HELPS TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ABOUT THAT.

ALSO DEVELOPING VOLUNTARY CERTIFICATION PROGRAM FOR BAIT SHOPS SO THAT THEY CAN SAY THAT THEY ARE PROUD TO BE INVASIVE-FREE.

SO A LOT OF THIS IS EDUCATION AND PUBLIC AWARENESS.

>> STARTING OUR DISCUSSION, LET'S MEET THE U.T.

SCIENTISTS WHO HAVE BEEN CONDUCTING THIS PROJECT.

ON OUR FIRST PANEL, WE HAVE DR.

KEVIN CZAJKOWSKI, PROFESSOR OF GEOGRAPHY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO.

AND DR.

CAROLE STEPIEN, DISTINGUISHED UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR OF ECOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO AND RESEARCH DIVISION LEADER AT NOAA.

WE ALSO HAVE DR.

ANDREW SOLOCHA, PROFESSOR OF FINANCE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO, AND WE HAVE NATE MARSHALL, A Ph.D.

GRADUATE STUDENT IN THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO.

SO FIRST OF ALL, WELCOME TO THE FOUR OF YOU.

THIS IS THE PANEL, FIRST OF THREE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING OUT TONIGHT.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> AND OUR FIRST QUESTION ACTUALLY GOING TO DR.

STEPIEN, AND THIS IS A GREAT WAY TO LEAD OFF THE PROGRAM.

WHAT PROMPTED THIS STUDY?

>> WELL, ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO, THERE WAS A CALL FROM THE U.S.

EPA, AT THE GREAT LAKES RESTORATION AND I WAS TRYING TO THINK OF SOMETHING NEW AND COOL WITH KEVIN AND ANDREW ABOUT WHAT TO DO.

FOR 25 YEARS, I WORKED ON ADAPTING THE LATEST GENETIC TECHNOLOGY TO HELP SOLVE OUR INVASIVE SPECIES PROBLEM, AND ORIGINALLY, I STARTED WITH THE ZEBRA AND QUAGGA MUSSEL INVASION THAT COME OVER FROM EUROPE AND WE GENETICALLY TRACKED WHERE THEY CAME FROM EUROPE AND HOW MANY SPECIES.

AND THEN WHEN THEY MOVED OUT WEST, VIA TRAILERED BOATS, WE TRACKED THE PATHWAYS.

ACTUALLY, THEY CAME FROM LAKE ONTARIO.

AND THEN GOT TRAILERED OUT THEN TO THE BOTTOM OF LAKE MEAD, ET CETERA, AND TO CALIFORNIA.

SO BOTH SPECIES WENT OUT THERE.

THERE WAS A GREAT BOATER EDUCATION PROGRAM IN THE WESTERN U.S.

OR IN THE WESTERN GREAT LAKES AND THAT DIDN'T WORK WELL IN THE EASTERN GREAT LAKES.

SO THAT'S WHERE THEY CAME FROM.

>> OKAY.

>> AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING.

>> WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND FROM THE DNA TESTING.

>> HERE WE ARE TESTING BAIT STORES AND POND STORES AS VECTORS FOR INVASIVE SPECIES ENTERING THE GREAT LAKES AND SO WE SAMPLED ALL THROUGH LAKE ERIE, THE WABASH WATERSHED, AND ALSO LAKE ST.

CLAIR REGION, AND SO WE WENT IN WITH OUR STUDENTS UNDER COVER AND THEY BOUGHT, LIKE, A FEW DOZEN BAIT FISH.

AND OUT IN THE OUT IN THE PARKING LOT, THEY ANESTHESIZED THE FISH AND WE TESTED WITH ENVIRONMENTAL DNA TESTING.

SO WE USED THE LATEST GENETICS.

WE USED METAGENOMIC TO IDENTIFY WHAT SPECIES AND CRITTERS WERE THERE.

>> VERY INTERESTING.

THANK YOU.

OUR NEXT QUESTION COMES FROM DR.

CZAJKOWSKI AND THE QUESTION IS: HOW IS GEOGRAPHIC MAPPING PART OF THIS STUDY?

>> WELL, AS A GEOGRAPHY PROFESSOR, THE FIELD OF GEOGRAPHY HAS CHANGED A LOT IN THE LAST 30 YEARS.

NOW WE USE GEOGRAPHIC INFORMATION SYSTEMS TO MAP THINGS AND LOOK AT WHY THINGS ARE WHERE THEY ARE.

IN THIS STUDY, WE HAD A SURVEY.

THE STUDENTS WENT TO PLACES WHERE ANGLERS WERE, PEOPLE WERE FISHING, MARINAS.

THEY EVEN WENT OUT ON LAKE ERIE WHEN IT WAS FROZEN AND HAD THE ANGLERS FILL OUT THE SURVEY.

AND THEY ARE ASKING THEM, YOU KNOW WHERE DO YOU FISH?

HOW OFTEN?

WHAT TYPE OF BAIT DO YOU USE?

AND WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THAT BAIT WHEN YOU ARE DONE WITH IT?

WE MAPPED THOSE THINGS.

WE ALSO DID THE MAP OF THE SUPPLY CHAIN AND THEN WE'RE HOPING ONCE WE FINISH ALL THE INVASIVE SPECIES ANALYSIS, TO MAP THAT AS WELL.

NOW, SOME OF THE THINGS WE FOUND WAS ABOUT A THIRD OF THE ANGLERS IN LAKE ERIE USE LIVE FISH BAIT TO FISH, AND IT TURNS OUT ABOUT HALF OF THEM DUMP THEIR LIVE BAIT ONCE THEY ARE DONE FISHING.

AND, YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY USED TO DO THAT WHEN I WAS FISHING TOO.

[ LAUGHTER ] BUT, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

>> SURE.

>> BUT IT TURNS OUT THAT IT'S NOT.

YOU KNOW, AFTER MEETING CAROL AND ANDREW ON THIS PROJECT, YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.

>> OKAY.

>> SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE FOUND, A LOT OF THE ANGLER ARE 40 YEARS OLD OR OLDER.

THEY HAVE BEEN FISHING FOR 20 YEARS AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.

WHAT WAS INTERESTING, WE ASKED THEM, HAVE YOU SEEN INVASIVE SPECIES IN THE LAKES OR IN THE RIVERS?

AND PRETTY MUCH ALL OF THEM HAVE SEEN SOME INVASIVE SPECIES.

MOST OF THIS WAS ROUND GOBIES.

BUT THERE WERE A FAIR NUMBER OF ANGLERS WHO SAID THAT THEY HAVE SEEN ASIAN CARP, THEY PUT THAT IN THEIR SURVEY.

WE ARE NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS.

IT'S SELF-REPORTING.

IT'S SOMETHING TO LOOK INTO FURTHER.

>> WONDERFUL.

THANK YOU.

NEXT QUESTION FOR DR.

SOLOCHA, AND THE QUESTION FOR YOU IS: WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED FROM STUDYING THE SUPPLY CHAIN OF LIVE BAIT?

>> WELL, IT'S A REALLY INTERESTING PROCESS BECAUSE IT IS REALLY A MARKET PROBLEM.

WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE DEMANDING THE BAIT.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT GO FISHING AND THEN YOU HAVE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPLYING THE BAIT AND THEY SUPPLY THE BAIT FROM SEVERAL DIFFERENT AREAS, NOT JUST FROM THE LOCAL COMMUNITY.

AND THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE IS THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BUYING THE BAIT DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT KIND OF BAIT THAT THEY ARE BUYING.

AND THEN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SELLING BAIT REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SELLING.

SO THERE HAS TO BE A LOT OF MARKET INFORMATION THAT IS PASSED ON TO THESE PEOPLE TO TRY TO EXPLAIN TO THEM.

IT'S LIKE KEVIN, DUMPING THE HIS BAIT AFTER HE WAS DONE.

>> MM-HMM.

>> HE DID IT BECAUSE NOT BECAUSE HE WAS DOING IT INTENTIONALLY, BUT BECAUSE HE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT THING TO DO IS.

SO PART OF THIS IS AN EDUCATIONAL PROCESS TO THE CONSUMER AND ALSO AN EDUCATIONAL PROCESS TO THE SUPPLIERS.

SO WE HAVE A SUPPLIER IS THAT IS GOING TO BE TALKING ON THIS PANEL AND HE HAS A DEGREE FROM B.G.

IN ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES.

SO HE ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT KINDS OF BAIT ARE IN HIS SUPPLY.

AND WHEN WE TESTED HIS FISH, WE FOUND OUT THAT THEY WERE CLEAN.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE HE WAS WELL EDUCATED AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING TO HIS SHOP ARE PRETTY WELL EDUCATED.

WE HAVE TO CONTINUE THAT PROCESS.

ALSO THERE'S A NOTION ABOUT THE VOLUNTARY CERTIFICATE PROGRAM, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SUPPLY IS CLEAN OF ANY INVASIVE SPECIES.

NOW, THERE'S A SIMILAR PROGRAM THAT EVERYBODY IS FAMILIAR WITH WHEN THEY GO TO BUY AN APPLIANCE, WHAT THEY'LL FIND OUT IS THAT THERE'S A LITTLE STICKER ON THERE.

IT TELLS YOU HOW MUCH ELECTRICITY THAT YOU WILL USE FOR A YEAR.

WELL, THAT'S A VOLUNTARY PROGRAM.

THAT'S NOT MANDATORY.

THAT IS A WAY OF EDUCATING THE CONSUMER ABOUT THE PRODUCTS BECAUSE WHEN YOU WALK IN, YOU DON'T KNOW ONE WASHING MACHINE FROM ANOTHER WASHING MACHINE.

AND THE SAME THING IS TRUE WITH A FISHERPERSON, IS THAT THEY WALK INTO A BAIT SHOP.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE BUYING.

SO A LOT OF THIS IS REALLY EDUCATING BOTH THE SUPPLIERS AND THE FINAL DEMAND, THE FISHER PEOPLE.

>> VERY INTERESTING.

THE FINANCIAL SIDE KIND OF ON THAT ONE?

>> RIGHT.

>> VERY INTERESTING.

THANK YOU.

THE NEXT QUESTION IS FOR NATE MARSHALL, OUR FOURTH MEMBER OF THIS PANEL, PANEL ONE OF THREE.

WHAT RESULTS HAVE YOU FOUND FROM THIS STUDY, NATE?

>> YES, SO QUICKLY, I WILL JUST SAY WE WERE WELL AWARE OF THAT NONNATIVE SPECIES CAN BE IN BAIT.

WE WANTED TO SAMPLE BAIT SHOPS IN THIS AREA TO DETERMINE HOW OFTEN THAT OCCURS AND WHAT NONNATIVE SPECIES APPEAR IN THE BAIT.

SO OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, WE WENT TO ABOUT 45 SHOPS AND WE WENT TO THEM A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT TIMES, AND WOULD BUY ABOUT TWO DOZEN FISH EACH TIME WE WOULD GO OUT.

AND WE WOULD MORPHOLOGICALLY IDENTIFY THE FISH.

WE WOULD LOOK AT EACH INDIVIDUAL FISH OF THE TWO DOZEN FISH WE BOUGHT AND IDENTIFY WHAT SPECIES THAT WAS.

AND THEN WE WOULD ALSO TAKE WATER SAMPLES FROM THE TANKS WITHIN THE BAIT SHOPS AND SAVE THAT FOR FURTHER GENETIC ANALYSIS.

AND THE MAJOR TAKE AWAY FROM THIS FROM THAT PORTION OF THE STUDY WAS THAT LOTS THESE BAIT SHOPS HAVE NONTARGET SPECIES PRESENT IN THEIR TANKS.

AND WHAT I MEAN BY NONTARGET SPECIES ARE SPECIES THAT THEY AREN'T ADVERTISING FOR SALE, AND THEY ARE WITHIN THEIR TANK.

THROUGH OUR GENETIC ANALYSIS, WE IDENTIFIED 69 PERCENT OUR SAMPLES HAD NONTARGET SPECIES WITHIN THE TANK.

SO, YEAH, IT'S QUITE A HIGH NUMBER.

AND THESE NONTARGET SPECIES INCLUDE A LOT OF INVASIVES SUCH AS SILVER CARP, ROUND GOBY, ALEWIFE, RAINBOW SMELT AND WESTERN MOSQUITO FISH.

>> WOW!

SO ALMOST 70% IS WHAT YOU FOUND HAD THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD IN THERE.

>> OR THEY WEREN'T CLAIMING WAS IN THERE.

SOMETIMES THEY WERE SAYING THEY WERE SELLING GOLDEN SHINERS, BUT THEY ARE SELLING EMERALD SHINERS.

IT'S A PROBLEM IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SELLING.

THEY ARE CALLING IT SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> SO JUST A FOLLOW UP.

WHAT ARE THE GENETIC TECHNIQUES USED?

>> YEAH, FOR THE GENETIC ANALYSIS, THESE BAIT SHOPS WILL HAVE HUNDREDS TO THOUSANDS OF INDIVIDUALS IN A TANK.

SO YOU IT'S NOT FEASIBLE TO WALK INTO A SHOP AND IDENTIFY ALL THE FISH THAT ARE IN THAT TANK, LET ALONE TO DO IT TO ALL THE SHOPS IN THE REGION.

SO WE USE THIS TOOL WHERE WE WOULD TAKE A WATER SAMPLE AND IDENTIFY THE ENVIRONMENTAL DNA IN THE TANK AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS RIGHT NOW, WE ARE SHEDDING SKIN CELLS.

AND IN THE SKIN CELLS, THERE DNA IN THERE.

SO FISH ARE DOING THE SAME THING WHEN THEY ARE SWIMMING AROUND IN THESE TANKS.

THEY ARE RELEASING CELLS INTO THE WATER.

SO YOU CAN TAKE THAT WATER AND ISOLATE THE DNA OR THE GENETIC MATERIAL IN THESE CELLS AND THEN YOU CAN IDENTIFY THE SPECIES THAT ARE PRESENT IN THAT TANK FROM THE DNA.

SO WE DID THAT WITH ALL OF OUR SHOPS THAT WE VISITED, AND IT WAS A VERY USEFUL TOOL BECAUSE WHEN WE BOUGHT TWO DOZEN FISH, WE NEVER FOUND A ROUND GOBY OR A SILVER CARP.

BUT WITH THE DNA ANALYSIS, WE FOUND A FEW SHOPS THAT HAD THAT SPECIES OR HAD THAT DNA IN THEIR TANK, WHICH MEANS PROBABLY THAT SPECIES WAS EITHER IN THERE OR HAD BEEN IN THERE RECENTLY.

>> WOW.

OKAY.

INTERESTING.

FOR ANY OF YOU, WE HAVE A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS.

IF YOU FEEL LIKE GOING FIRST, WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE FOUR OF YOU.

BUT IT'S A GENERAL QUESTION, BUT HOW ARE THE RESULTS OF THE STUDY IMPORTANT FOR THE FOLKS WATCHING AT HOME TONIGHT FOR THE ECOLOGY, YOU KNOW, THE ECOSYSTEM, FOR NATURE, FOR THE FISH, FOR THE HEALTH OF LAKE ERIE.

HOW ARE THESE RESULTS IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE?

>> WELL, SILVER CARP ARE PARTICULARLY ALARMING BECAUSE THEY ARE SLATED TO BE A REALLY BAD INVADER OF THE GREAT LAKES.

AND THE SHOPS ARE PROBABLY GETTING THEM FROM THE OHIO RIVER SYSTEM, OR THE WABASH WHERE THEY ARE PRETTY PREVALENT, YOU KNOW, LOCALLY.

AND THEN MOVING THEM UP HERE FROM THE SUPPLY CHAIN OR SOME SHOPS EVEN BUY THEIR BAIT FROM ARKANSAS WHERE THEY ARE ALSO REALLY PREVALENT.

SO THESE FISH ARE SWIMMING UP THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER AT THE THRESHOLD OF THE GREAT LAKES.

THEY GET HUGE.

THEY GET TO BE THAT BIG.

THEY FEED REALLY WELL ON THE FOOD CHAIN.

THEY EAT ALL THE FOOD FOR THE FISH.

AND HERE WE FOUND IT LOCALLY, JUST A FEW MILES FROM THE STATION TWO YEARS IN A ROW, IN A LOCAL BAIT SHOP.

>> WOW.

>> AND SO THEY MUST BE GETTING THEM FROM SOMEWHERE.

CAPTAIN PAUL WHO IS SPEAKING LATER, THOUGHT THEY PROBABLY CAME IN WITH GOLDEN SHINERS OR.

SO AND ALL OF THESE LITTLE MINNOWS LOOK-A-LIKE.

IT'S EASY TO MAKE A MISTAKE.

IT'S BAD FOR THE GREAT LAKES IF ENOUGH GET RELEASED.

LIKE, REMEMBER THE LION FISH, YOU KNOW, OFF OF FLORIDA WENT ALL THROUGH THE CARIBBEAN THROUGH AQUARIUM RELEASES.

>> ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE IS THAT THE BITE SHOPS, THE SUPPLIERS GET MOST OF THEIR BAIT FROM EITHER INLAND PONDS OR THEY FIND THEM FROM LAKE ERIE.

NOW, WHEN THEY GET THESE BOATS AND THEY CATCH ALL OF THESE SHINERS, THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY COULD DO THAT ALL THE WAY UP INTO AUGUST, SEPTEMBER, AND OCTOBER, AND THAT IS THE REASON THEY HAVE TO STOP THEN IS THAT THE FRY FOR THE PERCH AND THE WALLEYE ARE ABOUT THE SAME SIZE.

SO WHEN THEY SCOOP THEM UP, THEY CAN'T DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE TWO.

AND IT'S ILLEGAL TO SELL THE FRY FOR THE PERCH AND THE WALLEYE.

SO THEY HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE THE AREA.

ONE THE BIGGEST SUPPLIERS IN OHIO IS FROM THE CINCINNATI REGION WHICH IS RIGHT BY THE INVASIVE SPECIES FROM THE OHIO RIVER.

>> WE ALSO FOUND SMALL WALLEYE AND YELLOW PERCH IN THE BAIT, FULLY PHYSICALLY FOUND THEM BEING SOLD.

>> WOW!

>> SO YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SELLING THEM WHEN WE NEED THEM TO GROW UP TO EAT.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SELLING YOUR IMPORTANT SPORT FISH AS BAIT.

>> EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE CANNIBALLISTIC.

>> RIGHT, THEY DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, BUT WE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE AND THE IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT.

>> RIGHT.

>> WE DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO EAT THEIR OWN YOUNG.

>> PROBABLY A GOOD POLICY.

ANOTHER QUESTION, MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER IT DR.

CZAJKOWSKI, ARE ALL INVASIVE SPECIES QUOTE/UNQUOTE BAD?

AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT WORD "BAD."

>> I'M NOT SURE I CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

>> WELL, ANY OF YOU?

>> WELL, THERE'S A DEFINITION OF INVASIVE SPECIES.

THEY ARE INVASIVE.

THE DNR AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS DO THIS IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO BE INVASIVE.

IT'S INVASIVE BECAUSE IT PUSHES OUT THE OTHER SPECIES.

SO THAT'S WHERE THE DAMAGING COMES FROM, IS THEY TAKE OVER.

SO FOR INSTANCE, PEOPLE TAKE RED SLIDDERS, TURTLES AND THEY DUMP THEM INTO THE LAKES AND THEY THINK THAT WHEN THEY BUY THEM, THEY ARE THIS BIG.

THEY ARE CUTE AND ALL OF THAT.

BUT THEY GET TO BE THAT BIG AND WHAT THEY DO IS THEY DUMP THEM INTO THE LAKES.

AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY ARE VERY AGGRESSIVE SPECIES, AND THEY COULD PUSH OUT THE PAINTED TURTLES WHICH ARE THE NATIVE TO THE AREA AND DEPRIVE THEM OF THE FOOD THAT THEY NEED.

>> AREN'T YOU SAYING THAT WALLEYE ARE INVASIVE SOME OF THE OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY?

>> YES, AND SOME OF THE FOOTAGE FOR THIS WAS FILMED IN SEATTLE AND IN LAKE WASHINGTON AT NOAA, THE WALLEYE AND YELLOW PERCH ARE INVASIVE AND THEY ARE EATING THE BABY SALMON.

SO THE FISHERIES OUT THERE ASKED ME, PLEASE USE YOUR ASSAYS, YOUR GENETIC TESTS BECAUSE WE NEED TO KNOW WHERE THESE THINGS ARE AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

THEY WERE INTENTIONALLY INTRODUCED BY THE U.S.

FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE YEARS AGO, BACK IN THE 1800s, THEY BROUGHT BOXCARS FROM THE GREAT LAKES AND DUMPED THEM ALL OVER WESTERN RESERVOIRS AND LAKES FOR FISHING.

>> TO STOCK THEM.

>> AND THE PACIFIC SALMON IN THE GREAT LAKES.

THOSE WERE INTRODUCED.

>> RIGHT.

>> SO THEY ARE INVASIVE.

THEY ARE NOT NATIVE, AND THE QUESTION IS: ARE THEY A PROBLEM?

THEY WERE INTRODUCED BECAUSE THEY WENTED TO REDUCE THE POPULATION OF ALEWIVES.

>> WHICH WERE ALSO INVASIVE.

>> AND NOW IT'S AN IMPORTANT FISHERY AS WELL.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S QUANTITATIVE.

LIKE WHAT WE VALUE AS HUMANS.

>> IT'S CRAZY.

>> IT'S THE IMPACT ON HUMAN DETERMINES HOW IT'S INVASIVE.

>> AND THE CARP, THE COMMON CARP WERE INTRODUCED FROM EUROPE BY THE EARLY SETTLERS IN THIS REGION.

THEY BROUGHT THEM OVER FOR FOOD.

YOU KNOW, THE DISGUSTING GIANT CARP WE HAVE IN ALL OF OUR MARSHES, ET CETERA.

AND SO THOSE ARE INVASIVE TOO, BUT THEY WERE BROUGHT OVER INTENTIONALLY FOR FOOD.

>> WOW.

IT'S FUNNY, I KNOW I DO WEATHER FOR MY PROFESSION, AND I TELL I GO TO STUDENTS AND TALK ABOUT HOW THE WEATHER IS ALL CONNECTED.

SOMETHING HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN JAPAN WILL EVENTUALLYISM PACK OUR WEATHER AND WHATEVER EVENTUALLY IMPACT OUR WEATHER, AND IT SEEMS THAT'S THE THEME, THE UPS AND DOWNS AND IT SEEMS LIKE THATS A THEME.

WE BROUGHT THE CARP OVER 100 YEARS AGO, 200 YEARS AGO AND THAT HAS AN IMPACT OF WHAT WAS BROUGHT LATER AND THEN A SPECIES GOT HERE AND THEY BROUGHT SOMETHING ELSE TO TAKE CARE OF THAT SPECIES.

WE TOOK FISH OUT WEST.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S ALL CONNECTED.

IS THERE A WAY TO KIND OF COMBAT THIS IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

>> WE HAVE TO CHANGE OUR THINKING.

WE HAVE TO THINK OF IN TERMS OF SYSTEMS.

SO WE HAVE TO DEVELOP A SYSTEMS THINKING, IN TERMS OF OUR LEADERS, OUR REGULATORY BODIES, THAT THEY HAVE TO THINK IN TERMS OF A SYSTEM.

WHAT I DO DOES HAVE AN IMPACT ON YOU.

>> THAT'S A GOOD ANSWER.

AND THE GOLD FISH BRINGS HOME FROM THE FAIR.

IT GETS BIGGER AND BIGGER.

AND AFTER A WHILE THEY DON'T WANT TO TAKE CARE OF THE FISH IN THE AQUARIUM.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

YOU RELEASE IT.

AND THEN THESE THINGS CAN GROW TO BE 6 FEET LONG.

AND THEY LOVE IT HERE.

WE CAN'T GO FISHING OR SEINING OR SAMPLING IN ANY OF OUR RIVERS WITHOUT FINDING A LOT OF GOLD FISH.

SO THAT'S PRETTY SOBERING.

>> WHAT SHOULD FISHERMEN DO WITH THEIR LIVE BAIT THAT THEY DON'T USE?

>> MY UNDERSTANDING NOW IS >> YES, YOU HAVE DONE THIS.

WE WILL GIVE YOU LIKE A FIVE-YEAR CUTOFF AND YOU ARE FINE.

>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY SHOULD DISPOSE OF IT, IN THE TRASH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> I THINK PUT IT ON ICE AND LET IT GO TO SLEEP IS THE MOST HUMANE THING.

AS A SCIENTIST, I HAVE TO USE A REALLY EXPENSIVE ANESTHETIC, MS222, IT'S PROBABLY BETTER JUST TO LET THEM THEY ARE COLD BLOODED.

JUST LET THEM GO TO SLEEP AND, YOU KNOW, IN THE COLD.

AND THEN GET RID OF THEM.

>> JUST DON'T RELEASE THEM.

>> DON'T RELEASE THEM.

>> DON'T JUST DUMP THAT EXTRA BAIT OUT BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEMS TEND TO BE.

>> AND OTHER THINGS TRAVEL WITH BAIT BUCKETS.

>> AND PEOPLE HAVE THESE LITTLE PONDS.

SO THERE'S A POND RIGHT BY OUR HOUSE, AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IS THE SWAN CREEK COMES THROUGH OR IT'S REALLY, REALLY SMALL.

THEY DAMMED IT UP, AND CREATE THEIR POND AND THEN IT CONTINUES ON.

WELL, THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY PUT FISH INTO THOSE PONDS, LIKE GRASS CARP OR THEY COULD PUT ANY KIND OF FISH, AND THEN IN EARLY SPRING, WHEN IT FLOODS, THOSE FISH GO RIGHT DOWN INTO THE MAUMEE RIVER AND THEN GO INTO LAKE ERIE, WHICH IS A VERY CONVENIENT SUPPLY CHAIN.

>> MM-HMM.

>> MM-HMM.

>> ALL RIGHT.

ANOTHER QUESTION.

IS THERE ANY IMPACT ON THE ALGAE BLOOMS FROM THE INVASIVE SPECIES.

THAT'S BEEN IN THE NEWS FOR THE TOXIC ALGAE EVEN THE DRINKING WATER.

IS THERE ANY RELATION BETWEEN THE INVASIVE SPECIES AND THE ALGAE THAT HAS BEEN BLOOMING?

>> WELL, THAT'S A GOOD POSSIBILITY.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE TWO INVASIVE MUSSELS, ZEBRA AND QUAGGA MUSSEL.

AND THE QUAGGA MUSSEL HAS BEEN SHOWN SCIENTIFICALLY TO PROCESS PHOSPHOROUS DIFFERENTLY AND ACTUALLY RELEASES IT AND PHOSPHOROUS IS IN THE NUTRIENT THAT FUELS HARMFUL ALGAL BLOOMS SO IT IS THE PRIMARY LIMITED NUTRIENT THAT'S IN FERTILIZER THAT HELPS PLANTS GROW.

AND JUST LIKE IT HELPS OUR FARM FIELDS GROW, IT HELPS THE HARMFUL ALGOBLOOM TO GROW.

AND ANOTHER THING IS THAT SILVER CARP HAVE BEEN SHOWN SCIENTIFICALLY THAT THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT MICROSYSTEM TOXIN, THE TOXIN IN THE ALGAE BLOOMS.

THEY ARE IMMUNE TO IT.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THEY DEVELOPED THAT IN CHINA OR, WHAT BUT THEY JUST PASS IT THROUGH AND THEY MAKE IT ACTUALLY WORSE.

SO IF AND WHEN THEY GET INTO THE GREAT LAKES, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO HELP.

>> AT ALL?

>> NO.

>> YOU THINK IF THEY WERE EATING, IT THEY WOULD HELP IN PROCESSING IT.

>> IT GOES RIGHT THROUGH THEIR BODIES.

>> THE ZEBRA MUSSELS, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING I'M NOT A SCIENTIST, BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE ZEBRA MUSSELS WILL EAT THE ALGAE IN THE LAKE, AND ANY OF THE TOXIC ALGAE, THEY JUST SPIT OUT.

SO WHAT THEY ARE DOING, THEY WILL JUST RELEASE IT RIGHT IN.

SO WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS THEY ARE TAKING OUT THE COMPETITION FOR FOOD.

>> THE GOOD STUFF.

>> THEY ARE TAKING OUT THE COMPETITORS.

THAT'S RIGHT.

>> WOW!

>> THAT AGAIN, THAT JUST SHOWS HOW IT'S ALL CONNECTED.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND WE HAVE 184 ESTABLISHED INVASIVE SPECIES IN THE GREAT LAKES.

>> AND WE HAVE TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS SERIOUSLY BECAUSE IF YOU IF YOU IMAGINE TOLEDO AND YOU TAKE AWAY LAKE ERIE, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

YOU HAVE A TOWN OF MAYBE 10,000 PEOPLE.

THE AMOUNT OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY THAT RESULTS FROM LAKE ERIE IS ENORMOUS.

IT IS CRITICAL TO THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY.

SO WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF WHAT WE HAVE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH, THE FOUR OF YOU.

I APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION, THE CANDOR.

ANYWAY, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR EVENING.

WE APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DISCUSSION SO FAR, AND, AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK.

NOW WE WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS WORK ON THE GREAT LAKES AS A WHOLE.

TO GIVE US A STARTING POINT, LET'S WATCH THIS SHORT CLIP.

>> THEY ASKED JUST TEN YEARS AGO, WHAT WE WOULD DO, WE WOULD TAKE DNA FROM EVERY INDIVIDUAL AND HAVE TO RUN THAT SEPARATELY.

SO NOW WE CAN JUST PUT A GENETIC TAG ON THE SAMPLE, AND WE CAN GET BACK ALL THE DNA FROM ALL THE ORGANISMS AT THE SAME TIME.

AFTER THE HUMAN GENOME, THERE'S BEEN A GREAT REVOLUTION IN TECHNOLOGY.

AND HERE WE CAN CAPTURE SOME OF THAT INNOVATION TO HELP THE ENVIRONMENT, AND IN THIS CASE, DETECT INVASIVE SPECIES.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AROUND AT UP TOWNS LIKE PORT CLINTON, SANDUSKY, AREAS THAT ARE RIGHT ON THE LAKE, THEIR BUSINESS, THE HOTELS, THE RESTAURANTS, THE BAIT SHOPS, ALL OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS ARE TUNED IN TO THE FACT THAT PEOPLE COME TO THE LAKE TO GO FISHING.

SPORT FISHING IN OHIO IS A $2 BILLION A YEAR INDUSTRY.

THE BIG ISSUE WITH US IS THE ASIAN CARP.

LAKE ERIE IS AN IDEAL PLACE BECAUSE OF THE NUTRIENT LEVELS THAT WE HAVE IN THE LAKE.

THE ASIAN CARP ARE THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T CATCH BY HOOK AND LINE.

THEY TAKE OUT THE BOTTOM PART OF THE FOOD CHAIN.

IF THEY GET INTO LAKE FOOT CHAIN.

IF THEY GET INTO LAKE ERIE, THEY WILL DESTROY THE NATIVE FISH.

THAT'S OUR BIG ISSUE.

>> WE NOW HAVE WITH US SOME EXPERTS ON GREAT LAKES INVASIVE SPECIES AND THIS IS OUR SECOND PANEL.

FIRST OFF WE HAVE DR.

ROCHELLE STURTEVANT, PROGRAM MANAGER OF GLANSIS AND NOAA AS WELL.

WE HAVE JAY HEMDAL GENERAL CURATOR AT THE TOLEDO ZOO AND THEN TOM HENRY ON THE END HERE AN ENVIRONMENTAL ENERGY WRITER FOR THE TOLEDO BLADE.

SO WELCOME ALL OF YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE TONIGHT.

SO PANEL TWO, WE WILL START WITH DR.

STURTEVANT.

AND I JUST SAID GLANSIS AND NOAA AND ALL OF THESE ACRONYMS.

CAN YOU FIRST TELL US WHAT IS THE GLANSIS PROGRAM AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN AND WHAT IT DOES IT DO.

>>> SURE, SO GLANSIS IS A WEB-BASED SYSTEM.

IT STANDS FOR THE GREAT LAKES AQUATIC NON-INDIGENOUS SPECIES INFORMATION SYSTEM.

IT WILL ALLOW ANYONE TO FIND OUT ANY INFORMATION ON THE 187 INVASIVE SPECIES IN THE GREAT LAKES.

THE 18 SPECIES ARE MOVING AROUND TO THE LAKES AND A LOT OF THEM ARE NATIVE TO LAKE ONTARIO AND INVADED ABOVE THE NIAGRA FALLS AFTER THE WELLLAND CANAL WAS BUILT.

AND THEN WE HAVE 67 SPECIES THAT THE SCIENTISTS HAVE IDENTIFIED AS LIKELY TO INVADE THE GREAT LAKES OR AT SOME RISK TO POSE A PROBLEM SHOULD THEY GET HERE.

WE ARE CONSTANTLY COMBING THROUGH AND DOING RISK ASSESSMENT.

THE HEART OF GLANSIS IS ABOUT TRACKING THE MOVEMENT OF THOSE SPECIES THAT ARE HERE IN THE GREAT LAKES.

SO WE HAVE DISTRIBUTION MAPS.

WE'RE CONSTANTLY GETTING DATA FROM OUR STATE DNRs FROM FIELD RESEARCHERS, UNIVERSITY-BASED RESEARCHERS AND FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC WHO FINDS SOMETHING AND SAYS, WHAT IS THIS?

WE WILL SEND SOMEONE OUT TO CHECK IT OUT AND WE'LL PUT THAT INFORMATION IN THE MAP.

SO YOU CAN GO IN AND LOOK FOR A SPECIES AND YOU CAN SEE WHERE IT IS.

YOU CAN PUT IN YOUR WATERSHED NAME AND PULL UP A LIST OF, HEY, WHAT'S IN MY WATERSHED.

SO IT'S A REALLY GOOD INFORMATION RESOURCE, AND THAT'S REALLY THE CORE OF IT.

>> OKAY.

AND A FOLLOW-UP, HOW DOES NOAA STUDY INVASIVE SPECIES?

AND CAN YOU TELL FOLKS AGAIN WHAT NOAA IS.

>> SO NOAA IS THE NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION AND GLANSIS WHICH I JUST DISCUSSED IS A NOAA PROJECT TO PROVIDE INFORMATION, BUT IT'S NOT THE ONLY NOAA PROJECT ON INVASIVE SPECIES.

WE HAVE RESEARCHERS AT THE GREAT LAKES ENVIRONMENTAL RESEARCH LAB WHO ARE WORKING ON UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE NEXT INVADERS ARE LIKELY TO BE.

THEY ARE DOG RISK ASSESSMENT.

THEY ARE LOOKING FOR THINGS LIKE ASIAN CARP, IF THEY GET INTO THE GREAT LAKES WHAT HABITATS ARE GOING TO BE SUITABLE?

WHAT ARE THEIR POPULATIONS LIKELY TO DO?

WE HAVE RESEARCHERS WORKING ON WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS OF ZEBRA AND QUAGGA MUSSELS ON THE GREAT LAKES?

WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS OF BITHTRAPPY.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE MORE DISTANT IMPACTS THAT THEY ARE HAVING.

AND THEN WE HAVE AN EXTENSION SERVICE THROUGH C GRANT AND THERE'S ONE HERE IN OHIO.

AND I'M AFFILIATED WITH MICHIGAN'S C GRANT.

AND OUR C GRANT EXTENSION PROGRAMS ARE REALLY ALL ABOUT TAKING THAT SCIENCE AND GETTING IT INTO THE HANDS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DEALING WITH THESE THINGS IN REAL LIFE ON THE GROUND.

SO WE ARE WORKING WITH FISHERMEN IN TERMS OF WHAT CAN YOU DO DIFFERENTLY WASHING YOUR BOATS?

THERE'S C GRANT FOLKS WORE WORKING WITH THE BAIT TRADES.

THERE'S A CERTIFICATION PROGRAM CALLED AQUATIC INVASIVE SPECIES HASOP AND THAT WAS ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED FOR THE SPACE PROGRAM ON HOW TO MAKE YOUR ROCKETS AND YOUR FOOD FOR ASTRONAUTS AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE.

>> WHAT WAS THAT AGAIN.

>> IT'S CALLED HASOP, HAZARDOUS ANALYSIS CRITICAL CONTROL POINT AND IT'S A SYSTEM FOR LOOKING AT AN OVERALL PROCESS IN AN INDUSTRY AND FIGURING OUT WHERE THINGS COULD GO WRONG.

AND THEN PUTTING SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE AT THOSE POINTS.

SO WE'RE APPLYING THAT TO BAIT FISH IN THE GREAT LAKES AND LOOKING AT, WELL WHERE IN THIS WHOLE SUPPLY CHAIN COULD SOMETHING GO WRONG AND WHAT CONTROLS CAN WE PUT IN PLACE?

AND A LOT OF OUR BAIT HARVESTERS THAT OPERATE IN THIS REGION, AND SOME OF THE RETAIL CHAIN ARE REALLY, YOU KNOW, THEY WILL GO OUT OF THEIR WAY AND COME TO PROGRAMS AND LEARN HOW TO DO THIS KIND OF PROCESS AND HOW TO EXAMINE THEIR OWN SYSTEMS AND FIGURE OUT BETTER WAYS TO DO THINGS.

SO THOSE ARE KIND OF SOME OF THE NOAA C GRANT PROGRAMS THAT ARE GETTING DOWN TO THE LOW COMMUNITIES AND WORKING WITH FOLKS TO TRY TO SHUT THINGS DOWN AND EVERYTHING DOWN TO LOCAL BOAT WASH STATIONS.

>> WOW.

WONDERFUL.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IT'S VERY INFORMATIVE.

THE NEXT QUESTION IS FOR JAY HEMDAL.

NICE NAME BY THE WAY.

FROM THE ZOO AND THE QUESTION FOR YOU IS CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE TOLEDO ZOO'S EXHIBIT ON INVASIVE SPECIES.

>> SURE.

WHEN OUR AQUARIUM RENOVATION WAS COMPLETED IN 2015, ONE OF THE EXHIBITS THE NEW AQUARIUM WAS AN EXHIBIT WHICH WE CALL LIVING POLLUTION.

IT'S ANIMALS THAT ARE IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY DON'T BELONG.

IT'S A HARD MESSAGE TO GET ACROSS TO SOME OF THE KIDS.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE PROPER EDUCATION OCCURRING AND THE CONCEPT IS DIFFICULT TO DESCRIBE AND WE CERTAINLY CAN'T STAND BY THE TANK AND TRY TO EXPLAIN IT.

SO WHAT WE DID WAS THIS, WE PUT A TOILET BOWL IN THE TANK AND THAT'S VISUAL POLLUTION, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

>> CERAMIC DOESN'T HURT THE ANIMALS.

THEY LOOK AT THAT AND LAUGH AND THEY SAY WHY IS THE TOILET BOWL UP THERE?

AND THEN THE PARENTS HAVE TO LOOK UP AND READ THE PANELS.

AND THEN THEY INFORM THEIR KIDS.

>> THE ZOO IS SO GOOD.

SOMETIMES THE KIDS DON'T KNOW THAT THEY ARE LEARNING.

IT'S FUN LEARNING FOR SURE AND THAT'S ONE OF THE EXHIBITS THAT SHOWS THAT.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR FOLKS AT HOME, AQUARIUMS, THEIR HOME AQUARIUMS, AS THAT RELATES TO A PATHWAY FOR INVASIVE SPECIES.

>> IT'S A POTENTIAL PATHWAY.

I HAD HOME AQUARIUMS EVER SINCE I WAS A LITTLE KID.

IN FACT, IN THINKING ABOUT THIS SHOW, I RECALL MY FATHER WOULD TAKE ME TO A BAIT STORE 50 YEARS AGO AND THE BAIT OWNER, THE STORE OWNER WOULD HAND ME A NET AND LET ME TO LOOK FOR THE ODD FISH AT THE BOTTOM, THE CATFISH AND I WOULD TAKE THEM HOME FOR MY AQUARIUM.

THEY WERE NOT INVASIVE SPECIES.

AND THE BAIT STORE OWNERS GOT A KICK OUT OF IT BECAUSE I WAS SO INTO THE FISH.

MOVING FORWARD, I WORKED IN PET STORES.

I WORKED IN THE WHOLESALE PET TRADE AND NOW IN PUBLIC AQUARIUMS AND I REALIZE THAT THERE'S THE POTENTIAL FOR THESE ANIMALS THAT ARE BEING BROUGHT INTO THE UNITED STATES FROM ALL AROUND THE WORLD, AND KEPT IN PEOPLE'S HOMES IF THEY ARE NOT CARED FOR PROPERLY AND ESSENTIALLY RELEASED TO THE BECAUSE THEY ARE UNWANTED.

THEY COULD IN TURN BECOME INVASIVE SPECIES.

MOST AQUARIUM FISH ARE TROPICAL.

WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT AS MUCH IN NORTHWEST OHIO AS MUCH.

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA HAS DOZENS OF INVASIVE SPECIES THROUGHOUT THE WATERWAYS DOWN THERE.

THE QUESTION IS.

HOW FAR NORTH WOULD THOSE FISH BECOME STILL BE A PROBLEM?

WE JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WINTER KILL TEMPERATURE IS FOR A LOT OF THESE FISH.

ADDITIONALLY, IT MAY NOT BE THE FISH THEMSELVES WHEN THEY ARE RELEASED BY A PET OWNER.

WHAT THEY ARE CARRYING SOME DISEASE THAT GOES UNSEEN THAT COULD POTENTIALLY INFECT NATIVE POPULATIONS?

SO.

>> SO IT'S NOT JUST THE FISH, BUT IT COULD BE WHAT THEY ARE BRINGING WITH THEM?

>> IT COULD BE.

IT'S UNSEEN.

THERE ARE A FEW CASE WHERE FISH VIRUSES HAVE BEEN TRANSPORTED FROM ONE LIVING FISH TO ANOTHER AND STARTED UP NEW DISEASES.

IT JUST IMPACTS THE POPULATION, THE NATIVE POPULATIONS IN WAYS YOU WON NORMALLY RECOGNIZE.

>> AS PEOPLE CAN TRANSMIT AND CARRY DISEASES VIA PLANE OR BOAT, MUCH THE SAME, MORE OF THE SAME.

IT'S NOT JUST THE PERSON OR THE FISH THERE.

IT'S DISEASE OR THE CONDITION THAT THEY HAVE THAT THEY ARE BRINGING WITH THEM.

>> MM-HMM.

>> BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR AQUARIUMS, RIGHT.

>> NEXT QUESTION, TOM HENRY FROM THE BLADE.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT.

YOUR QUESTION, HOW WOULD YOU RANK THE INVASIVE SPECIES PROBLEM AND POTENTIAL PROBLEMS COMPARED TO OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS IN THIS AREA?

>> DEFINITELY RIGHT UP THERE.

I'M TRYING TO THINK BACK 2002, 2003 IN CLEVELAND, I WAS COVERING A GREAT LAKES CONFERENCE AND THE U.S.

EPA AT THAT TIME HAD SURPRISED SOME PEOPLE BECAUSE FOR YEARS, IT WAS ALWAYS ASSUMED THAT CHEMICAL CONTAMINATION WAS GOING TO BE THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE IN THE GREAT LAKES REGION, AND FOR THE FIRST TIME, THEY SAID FOR THEIR GREAT LAKES OFFICE THERE IN CHICAGO, THAT THEY SAW INVASIVE SPECIES SURPASSING CHEMICAL CONTAMINATION AS AN ISSUE.

NOW WE GOT CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE GOT OTHER ISSUES TOO, BUT IT'S IT'S DEFINITELY IT'S DEFINITELY A MAJOR ISSUE.

AND I THINK A LOT OF IT, YOU KNOW, GETTING BACK TO SOME OF THE CAUSES AND REASONS, I MEAN, THERE'S, YOU KNOW WE'RE IN AN ERA OF GLOBAL TRADE.

IT'S IT'S HARD TO STOP THIS, EVEN GOING BACK TO THE TERRORIST ATTACKS OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001, I HAD SCIENTISTS TELLING ME AFTERWARDS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE MAYBE JUST ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF THAT IS THAT WE'LL HAVE MORE PROTECTION AT BORDER CONTROL AND TRY TO STOP SOME OF THESE INVASIVE SPECIES.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN A WHOLE LOT OF THAT YET, BUT WHAT IT GETS DOWN TO ARE THE IMPACTS.

YOU KNOW, THEY DISRUPT THE BIOLOGY OF OF THESE LAKES AND IT'S IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE HAD SCIENTISTS BOB HEATH FROM KENT STATE MADE A GOOD POINT ONE TIME.

HE SAID HE SAID, YOU KNOW, AT ANY GIVEN TIME, THINK ABOUT IT.

WE'RE YOU KNOW, WE ARE STUDYING SOMETHING.

WE FIND SOMETHING.

WE WRITE UP A PROPOSAL WITH SCIENTISTS.

WE GET THAT FUNDING FOR THAT, AND THEN OUR RESEARCH WE GO OUT AND SPEND TIME, YOU KNOW, COLLECTING DATA.

WE GET THAT PEER REVIEWED.

HE SAID, THIS IS SUCH A MOVING TARGET, THE BIOLOGY OF THE LAKE, HE SAID AT ANY GIVEN TIME WE COULD BE FOUR TO FIVE YEARS BEHIND WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING OUT THERE.

AND, YOU KNOW, ANY TIME YOU AFFECT THE BIOLOGY, YOU ARE GOING TO AFFECT THE OTHER FISH SPECIES AND THAT AFFECTS THE, YOU KNOW, HUMANS, OUR ECONOMY AND WHY PEOPLE COME TO THIS AREA TO FISH, THE TYPES OF SPORT FISH AND IT HAS A RIPPLE EFFECT ON A LOT OF THINGS.

>> AND HOW OFTEN WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU WRITTEN ABOUT THIS OR THE BLADE HAS DONE A STORIES ON THE INVASIVE SPECIES, NO MATTER WHAT IT MIGHT BE.

I KNOW WE HAVE DONE A LOT OF ALGAE STORIES WITH THE RECENT FEW YEARS WITHIN THE LAKE, WHAT ABOUT INVASIVE SPECIES?

HAVE YOU DONE ANY KIND OF FEATURES OR HAVE YOU GOTTEN GOOD FEEDBACK FROM THE READERS?

>> I ALWAYS GET GOOD FEEDBACK ON THESE STORIES AND PEOPLE HAVE TO REALIZE THERE'S A LOT MORE GOING ON THAN ASIAN CARP, BUT YOU KNOW, ZEBRA MUSSELS AND THEN QUAGGA MUSSELS AFTER, THAT WERE THE BIG AND, YOU KNOW, SCIENTISTS A LOT OF TIME, AND LAWYERS, THEY WANT TO HAVE THIS TREATED AS BIOLOGICAL POLLUTION, SO THE LAWYERS CAN USE OTHER TOOLS LIKE THE CLEAN WATER ACT TO GO AFTER THEM.

BUT I MANY STORIES AND COLUMNS AND BLOGS I HAVE DONE, I HAVE REFERRED TO THE ASIAN CARP ISSUE AS A AS A SLOW-MOVING BIOLOGICAL TRAIN WRECK, YOU KNOW.

SOMETHING THAT YOU WE HAVE SEEN FOR YEARS MOVING UP THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER, AND AT MANY POINTS WE WERE HOPING THAT THERE WOULD BE SOMETHING DONE TO STOP AND NOW, YOU KNOW, IT KEEPS ENCROACHING AND MOVING CLOSER.

BUT PEOPLE ARE VERY INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE.

I HAD A FORMER U.S.

EPA REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR SAY TO ME ONE TIME, HE SAID, TOM, YOU CAN TALK TO PEOPLE UNTIL YOU ARE BLUE IN THE FACE ABOUT ZEBRA MUSSELS.

ZEBRA MUSSELS BUT STANDING A BOAT AND HAVING AN 85-POUND FISH LEAP OUT OF THE WATER AND HIT YOU IN THE LET'S SAY BELOW THE BELT, THAT'S WHAT REALLY WAKES UP ON THE ISSUE OF INVASIVE SPECIES.

>> AND THAT'S VISUAL.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT ON THE NEWS OR IF YOU LOOKED ON THE INTERNET, THAT THOSE FISH JUST HOPPING LIKE IT'S LIKE IT'S A PARADE OR SOMETHING AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, A OF SOME KIND.

BUT TO SEE THAT FIRST >> POPPING OUT LIKE POPCORN ALONG THE RIVER.

>> AND THEY ARE HEAVY.

THEY ARE BIG FISH.

>> YES.

>> IT'S A BIG ISSUE ABOUT.

30 SECONDS LEFT, DR.

STURTEVANT, WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE POTENTIAL FUTURE OF INVASE SPECIES IN THE GREAT LAKES?

ABOUT 30 SECONDS.

>> I WOULD SAY WE MADE SOME GOOD STRIDES ON THE BALLAST WATER MANAGEMENT.

HOPEFULLY WE KEEP THAT IN PLACE AND MAKE STRIDES.

I HAVE THINK WE NEED TO APPLY SOME OF THE SAME THINKING TO BAITS, TO ORGANISMS AND TRADE TO AQUARIUMS, AND START LOOKING AT WHERE THE CONTROL POINTS FOR THOSE ARE.

AND THEN I THINK WE ALSO HAVE TO GET REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT THE SPREAD BETWEEN THE LAKES AND SPREAD FROM THE GREAT LAKES INLAND AND VICE VERSA OR FROM THE GREAT LAKES TO THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER.

WE SPENT A LOT OF THE LAST 20 YEARS REALLY FOCUSED ON BALLAST WATER AND WE MADE SOME REAL PROGRESS THERE, BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY STORY.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF ADDITIONAL THINGS WE NEED TO BE WORKING ON.

AND HOPEFULLY WE HAVE LEARNED FROM SOME OF OUR SUCCESSES WITH BALLAST WATER AND WE ARE READY TO MOVE ON SOME OF THESE OTHER ISSUES.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, THANK YOU, THE THREE OF YOU.

VERY INFORMATIVE.

EYE OPENING IN SOME INSTANCES.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND INFORMATION.

WE WILL MOVE ON NOW TO PANEL THREE.

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

AND NOW WE WANT TO CONNECT THIS INFORMATION TO THE LOCAL END USERS.

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS CLIP.

>> NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE TO KEEP OUT INVASIVE COMING, JUST SWIMMING UP THE RIVERS.

THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE THE THINGS SOLD IN BAIT STORES.

>> SO I JOINED THE UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO FOR THIS LAB WITH DR.

CAROL STEPIEN WHICH DOES INVASIVE SPECIES WORK AND ENVIRONMENTAL GENETICS WORK.

I HAVE GONE TO SOME BAIT SHOPS TO BUY SOME BAIT FISH.

SO WE WOULD GO TO A BAIT SHOP AND BUY A DOZEN OR TWO DOZEN BAIT.

WE WOULD FILTER OUT THE FISH AND TAKE THE WATER SAMPLE AND TAKE THAT BACK TO THE LAB.

>> AND THEN THAT WATER THAT THEY COME IN SHOULD CONTAIN DNA FROM ALL THE FISH IN THAT TANK.

THE PRIMARY WAY THAT WE GET DNA OUT OF THESE SAMPLES FROM POND PETS AND BAIT SHOPS IS WE PRECIPITATE IT.

WE SPIN IT IN A CENTRIFUGE.

THE THINGS THAT ARE HEAVIER THAN WATER WILL GO TO THE BOTTOM OF THE TUBE.

AND ONCE WE CENTRIFUGE THEM.

WE USE ETHANOL AND A PIPETTE TO TRANSFER THE PRECIPITATE THAT'S THERE AFTER WE POUR OFF THE WATER.

AT THE END, YOU HAVE A SMALL PELLET AND PROBABLY CONTAINS SOME ALGAE AS WELL, BUT IT ALSO CONTAINS SKIN CELLS, DNA THAT'S INSIDE OF CELLS LIKE SKIN CELLS AND ALSO DNA THAT'S OUTSIDE OF CELLS.

>> WE CAN DUMP OUT THE WATER AND TAKE ALL THAT DEBRIS AND TAKE THE DNA OUT OF IT.

AND THEN WE CAN SEQUENCE THAT MARKER AND WE KNOW WHAT SEQUENCES COME BACK TO WHAT FISH THEY ARE FROM.

>> WHAT I'M HOPING TO DO IS IMPLEMENT SOME OF THESE ASSAYS.

BOTH IN THE GREAT LAKES AND ACROSS ALL OF OUR OCEANS, AND ISLANDS, ET CETERA ON BUOYS AND DRONES AND ANY SORT OF PLATFORMS WE HAVE.

TO BE ABLE TO DETECT WHAT IS LIVING IN OUR NATION'S FRESH WATERS AND MARINE WATERS, AND SO THESE ARE WAYS THAT WE WON'T DISTURB SYSTEMS, BUT WE CAN KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO RIGHT NOW, THERE'S KIND OF A DECOUPLINGS OF THE BIOLOGICAL WORLD FROM THE PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL OCEANOGRAPHY.

THE WORK I HAVE BEEN DOING, THE RESEARCH WORK HAS BEEN TRYING TO BRING THAT TOGETHER.

SCIENCE CAN TELL US A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO US, LIKE WHEN WE BRING OUR KIDS TO THE LAKESHORE, OR TO THE BEACH, WHAT DO WE WANT THEM TO SEE?

WHAT DO WE WANT THE NEXT GENERATIONS TO GROW UP WITH AND APPRECIATE?

I THINK THAT WE CAN USE TECHNOLOGY FOR GOOD, TO COEXIST WITH THE NATURAL WORLD.

>> AND WITH US NOW, WE HAVE OUR THIRD PANEL FOR THIS EVENING.

FIRST OF ALL WE HAVE CAPTAIN DAVE SPANGLER, THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE LAKE ERIE CHARTER BOAT ASSOCIATION.

WE HAVE CAPTAIN PAUL PACHOLSKI, LAKE ERIE CHARTER BOAT CAPTAIN OF ERIE HOPPER SPORT FISHING CHARTERS, AND WE HAVE MARIO CAMPOS, THE OWNER AND MANAGER OF MAUMEE BAIT AND TACKLE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE THIS EVENING.

THE THIRD PANEL, THE FINAL PANEL FOR TONIGHT, AND YOU FOLKS ARE THE LOCAL END USERS, THE LOCAL GUYS OUT IN THE WATER, OUT SELLING THIS STUFF TO THE PUBLIC, AND TO FISHERMEN, FISHER PERSONS.

SO FIRST QUESTION, WE WILL GO WITH MARIO HERE.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR BUSINESS AND ITS ROLE IN STOPPING INTRODUCTION OF INVASIVE SPECIES INTO OUR LAKES?

>> RIGHT.

I OWN A MAUMEE BAIT AND TACKLE WHICH IS A SMALL FISHING OUTFITTERS RIGHT ON THE MAUMEE RIVER.

WE DEAL WITH THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF FISHERMEN COMING IN EVERY DAY WHETHER IT'S LEACHES OR MINNOWS, WE HAVE A BIG MINNOW TANK.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS, IT'S A VERY VISUAL PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE.

THESE GIANT CARP FLYING THROUGH THE AIR, SMACKING YOU AND YOU NEED A BASEBALL BAT AND A HOCKEY HELMET TO GET THROUGH IT.

NOBODY WANTS, THAT TRUST ME.

I LOOK THEM IN THE EYE AND EXPLAIN THAT.

I HAVE VISUAL CARDS THAT I HANG IN DIFFERENT PLACES IN ANY SHOP, AND I TELL GUYS, HEY, IF YOU SEE THIS PARTICULAR LOOKING WEIRD TYPE OF MINNOW, THROW IT ON ICE AND WE'LL GET IT TO THE DNR AND THE RIGHT DNA GUYS TO SEE IF IT'S SOMETHING.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO INFORM THE PUBLIC.

ONE OF THE THINGS I DO ON MY WEBSITE, IS I TAKE ALL OF THIS INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE GATHERED TODAY, BREAK IT DOWN INTO LAYMEN'S TERMS.

HEY, WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THESE THINGS.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE NOT DUMPING YOUR BAIT BUCKETS BACK IN YOUR NEIGHBOR'S POND AT NIGHT TO HELP FEED HIS BASS THAT HE HAS IN THERE.

IT'S THE LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT CAUSE THE PROBLEM.

NINE OUT OF TEN PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT, AND THEY APPRECIATE IT.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT AGO HERE WAS THE GOBY PROBLEM.

IT'S IT'S A LOT OF FISHERMEN NOW, IF THEY CATCH A GOBY OR HOOK IT, THEY WILL THROW IT ON SHORE OR TOSS IT IN THE TRASH.

THEY HAVE DON'T THROW THEM BACK IN THE WATER.

THEY DON'T GENTLY PUT THEM TO SLEEP, OKAY?

THAT'S NOT OUR BUSINESS.

SO THE SO WE ARE RIGHT THERE AT THE FRONT LINE, TRYING TO EDUCATE THE CUSTOMER.

AND WE KEEP AN EYE ON OUR SUPPLIERS TOO.

WHEN I GET THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF GALLONS OF MINNOWS A YEAR, I LOOK THROUGH THEM AS I'M SCOOPING THEM OUT GIVING THEM TO THE CUSTOMER, I'M EYEBALLING THEM.

IF SOMETHING DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT, I WILL DUMP IT IN MY BUCKET.

WE CHANGE OUR WATER FREQUENTLY.

WE DON'T WANT ANYTHING INVASIVE COMING IN.

WE LOOK FOR MUSSELS AND DIFFERENT KINDS OF LARVAE.

IF THEY HAVE GROWTHS ON ANY OF THEM, WE CHECK THOSE OUT.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE WELCOME DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT WANT TO COME IN AND TAKE A LOOK AT OUR TANKS.

AND THE DNR, THE WILDLIFE, THEY LIKE TO INSPECT TOO.

HEY, DOESN'T BOTHER ME IF WE FIND SOMETHING WEIRD IN THERE, WE WILL GET IT TAKEN CARE OF.

THAT'S THE POINT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

AND YOUR SUPPLIERS, CAN YOU MENTION WHERE YOU GET THE BAIT FISH FROM AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT IT'S A LEGITIMATE BUSINESS THAT'S GIVING YOU WHAT THEY SAY THEY ARE GIVING YOU?

>> SURE.

I TRY TO GET MOST OF MY BAIT FROM RIGHT HERE, THAT IS SEEN RIGHT UP IN LAKE ERIE, SO WE KNOW THAT THEY ARE COMING RIGHT OUT OF THE LAKE.

SOMETIMES WE DO FIND THAT THEY DO PULL THEM FROM OUT OF STATE, IF IT'S GETTING TOWARDS THE END OF THE YEAR, EARLY OR LATE FALL SO WE ASK FOR THE CERTIFICATIONS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE QUARANTINE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE QUARANTINE ACROSS THE STATELINES AND THE TANKS HAVE BEEN INSPECTED.

THERE'S ALSO SOME LOCAL POND FARMERS THAT THEY GROW THEIR OWN MINNOWS THAT I GET THEM FROM.

WE HAVE DIFFERENT WAYS.

I CHECK THEM IN THEIR TANKS AND MAKE SURE IT'S NOTHING INVASIVE COMING IN.

YEAH.

>> VERY INTERESTING.

>> IT HAS TO FALL ON ME AND THE GUYS THAT WORK FOR ME.

MM-HMM.

>> BEFORE IT GETS OUT TO THE CUSTOMER.

>> MM-HMM.

>> MM-HMM.

THE NEXT QUESTION IS FOR CAPTAIN DAVE.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THE INVASIVE SPECIES ON THESE SPORT FISHING INDUSTRY, RIGHT NOW?

>> AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WE'RE WE'RE SETTING THERE PRIMARILY LOOKING AT THE ALGAE SITUATION AS NUMBER ONE, BUT IN OUR BACKGROUND, ACTUALLY INVASIVES AND THE ASIAN CARP ARE REALLY 1A, IF YOU WOULD.

WE ARE EXTREMELY CONCERNED WITH THAT PARTICULAR FISH BECAUSE OF WHAT IT CAN DO TO THE BOTTOM PART OF OUR FOOD CHAIN AND TAKE OUT THE FISH THAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO CATCH IN THE FIRST PLACE.

SO WE KNOW THAT LAKE ERIE IS PRIME TIME.

THE MAUMEE AND THE SANDUSKY RIVER ARE PRIME TIME AREAS FOR THOSE TWO SPECIES AND IF THEY DO GET IN HERE, LAKE ERIE IS GOING TO BE IN EXTREMELY DEEP TROUBLE.

AND OUR BUSINESS WILL PROBABLY GO AWAY.

THERE'S REALLY NOTHING WE CAN DO WITH AN ASIAN CARP.

YOU CAN'T EVEN CATCH THOSE BY NORMAL HOOK AND LINE METHODS.

SO WE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

WE ALSO ARE VERY ENCOURAGED BY PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THE GRI.

IT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER, THE GREAT LAKES RESTORATION INITIATIVE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY TRACKED A LOT WITH THE COAST GUARD IN THE PAST SIX YEARS IS THAT WHEN THEY COME IN TO LAKE ERIE WITH FOREIGN FREIGHTERS, THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CHECK EVERY SINGLE BALLAST TANK ON EVERY SHIP FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS.

AND THAT MONEY COMES FROM GRI MONEY.

SO EVERY YEAR, WE GO TO WASHINGTON, AND KEEP PUSHING AND PUSHING BECAUSE IT KICKS A LOT OF TIMES IT GETS ZEROED OUT IN A BUDGET AND WE NEED TO HAVE THAT BACK IN FOR A LOT OF OTHER REASONS TOO, BUT THAT'S ONE OF THEM.

>> SO IF THAT FUNDING STOPS, THE CHECKS ON THE BALLAST COULD ALSO STOP?

>> IT COULD STOP.

YES, IT COULD STOP, BECAUSE THE COAST GUARD HAS A HAS A PROGRAM THAT THEY GO THROUGH, AND AGAIN, IT'S FOR THE SALTIES, THE ONES THAT COME FROM OVERSEAS.

MOST OF THE BAD ACTORS WE HAVE IN THE LAKE NOW CAME FROM THE CASPIAN SEA AND EUROPE, SOME PLACE.

THE GOBY IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.

ALL OF THE MUSSEL VERSIONS ARE COMING FROM THERE.

WE HAVE AN AWFUL LOT OF THEM THAT CAME FROM BALLAST WATER.

AND THE MORE WE CAN CHECK THAT, THE BETTER IT WILL BE TO STOP SOMETHING ELSE OUT THERE.

AND, OF COURSE, THE ASIAN CARP IS A SPECIAL CASE THERE.

>> CAPTAIN PAUL.

THE SAME QUESTION, BUT LOOKING TO THE FUTURE, I KNOW YOU MENTIONED A LITTLE BIT, IT COULD WIPE OUT THE BUSINESS.

CAN YOU GIVE ME MORE SPECIFICS?

IS IT GOING TO BE A SLOW PROCESS?

DO YOU SEE PEOPLE LIKE, IS IT MORE OF THE FACT THAT IT MIGHT TAKE OUT WHAT'S IN THE LAKE NOW, AS FAR AS WALLEYE AND PERCH OR WILL PEOPLE NOT GO FISHING BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO GET HIT BY THE 85-POUND CARP FLYING AT THEM.

>> THE MAJOR WORRY ABOUT THE CARP IS NOT FLYING OUT OF THE WATER.

IT'S DEPLETING THE FOOD SOURCE, THE BASE OF THE FOOD CHAIN, THE ZOOPLANKTON AND THE ALGAES.

THAT'S A MAJOR CONCERN THAT IF THERE'S NOTHING FOR THE YOUNG TO THRIVE ON, THEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY DRIVE DOWN YOUR POPULATION OF SPORT FISH, AND OUR SPORT FISHING INDUSTRY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR 11,000 JOBS, YEARLY JOBS.

AND THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER.

I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE THOSE 11,000 JOBS, BUT IT'S THERE ARE THINGS THAT AS FISHERMEN, WE CAN ACTUALLY TAKE MORE PROACTIVE APPROACH.

I REALLY LIKE WHAT HE SAID MARIO SAID ABOUT WHAT THEY DO AS A STORE, BUT WE AS FISHERMEN, WE CAN DO THINGS TOO.

AND A LOT OF OUR GUYS HAVE SWITCHED TO WHEN THEY GET THEIR MINNOWS, THEY JUST DUMP THEM IN A ZIPLOC BAG WITH NO WALTER AND MAKE SURE THERE'S NO WATER, AND KEEP THEM ON ICE.

THEY ARE GOOD ALL DAY.

IF YOU PREFER TO KEEP YOUR MINNOWS ALIVE, THEN AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S GETTING HARDER AND HARDER TO PUSH THOSE SHINERS WHICH IS THE PREFERRED BAIT FOR PERCH.

AND WHEN YOU DO HAVE THEM, OR ANY MINNOWS, WITH THE AVAILABILITY, OR LACK OF AVAILABILITY, IT'S QUITE EASY TO JUST AT THE END OF THE DAY, PUT THEM IN BETWEEN NEWSPAPERS, DRY 'EM OUT.

ONCE THEY ARE DRIED OUT, PUT THEM IN A FREEZER BAG AND STICK THEM IN THE FREEZER.

THE NEXT TIME YOU GO FISHING, IF YOU CAN'T FIND ANY SUITABLE BAIT, YOU WILL HAVE AT LEAST SOMETHING OR YOU CAN MAYBE BUY LESS BAIT AND USE YOUR FROZEN BAIT.

SO EITHER WAY, THOSE WON'T REPRODUCE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

AND HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT MAKING SURE WHEN YOU ARE PURCHASING BAIT THIS IS FOR EITHER OF ONE OF YOU THAT YOU ARE BUYING LEGITIMATE SAFE BAIT?

DO YOU I MEAN, LIKE OUR FIRST PANEL, THERE'S AN IDEA THAT WITH THE WITH THE APPLIANCES, THERE'S A YELLOW STICKER.

IT'S VOLUNTARY.

IT WILL USE ABOUT THIS MUCH ELECTRICITY.

IS THERE ANY KIND OF STICKER ON A CERTAIN BRAND OR ANYTHING THAT SAYS THIS IS CERTIFIED TO BE WHAT IT IS?

>> I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE.

[ LAUGHTER ] DURING THE SPRING, IT ISN'T NEARLY THE ISSUE THAT IT IS IN THE FALL.

AND BECAUSE OF WHAT PAUL WAS SAYING, WHERE WE LOSE THE ABILITY TO GET OUR EMERALD SHINERS, THAT'S PRIME FOOD FOR OUR PERCH FISHING SEASON WHICH GOES IN THE FALL.

SO NOW WE'LL START SEEING SOMETHING CALLED THE GOLDEN SHINER, AND THEY COME FROM VARIOUS PLACES, EVEN AS FAR SOUTH, I GUESS, AS ARKANSAS.

THOSE ARE RUNS THAT WE REALLY ARE CONCERNED WITH.

THE SHAPE AND THE LOOK OF ONE THAT'S THIS SIZE, IF YOU REALLY STUDY IT, YOU MIGHT NOTICE THAT IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FROM AN ASIAN CARP, BUT, YOU REALLY HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT TO KNOW THAT THAT IS THE WRONG ONE.

SO THAT'S WHERE WE REALLY THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE THE BIGGEST ISSUE THERE.

THE PART ABOUT TAKING YOUR BAIT BACK AND DISPOSING OF IT SOME PLACE ELSE, WE OF COURSE, ALL OF US, AS CAPTAINS, WE CONTROL THE BAIT, AND WHEN WE COME BACK IN, I DON'T DUMP BAIT.

WE DO WHAT PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT.

WE ACTUALLY WE'LL ACTUALLY SALT IT AND FREEZE IT AND WE CAN REUSE IT.

IT'S KIND OF A SOFTER BAIT, BUT IT WILL WORK.

AND I ALWAYS TALK TO MY CLIENTS AND SAY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU COME OUT AND GO PERCH FISHING, DON'T DUMP IT BACK INTO THE LAKE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE SHINERS, THE REAL SHINERS.

KEEP 'EM!

YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE THEM FOR ANOTHER WEEK OR TWO.

>> YEAH.

>> AND WE ALSO BUY FROM GOOD BAIT SHOPS THAT HAVE A KNOWN REPUTATION.

THESE GUYS, THEY GET THEIR BUSINESS TO DO THEIR BEST TO MAINTAIN HEALTHY TANKS WITH THE RIGHT BAIT, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU PUT SUCH AN EMPHASIS ON WHAT KIND OF BAIT YOU ARE GETTING, IT'S NOTHING FOR PEOPLE TO DRIVE 30, 40 MILES OUT OF THEIR WAY TO GET THE BETTER BAIT, THE EMERALD SHINERS.

THAT'S THE HOLY GRAIL OF PERCH FISHING.

SECOND CHOICE WOULD BE GOLDEN SHINERS AND THIRD DOWN THERE IS THE WISCONSIN MUD MINNOW.

AND THAT'S ABOUT THE LAST CHOICE FOR ANYBODY HERE.

BUT VERSUS HAVING NO BAIT, WE WILL USE THEM.

>> ABOUT 45 SECONDS, MARIO.

FINAL QUESTION.

AND I KNOW YOU MENTIONED THAT IT'S VERY VISUAL WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT BAIT, HOW CAN THE AVERAGE PERSON, THEY GO TO A BAIT SHOP, THEY BUY SOME LIVE BAIT, HOW CAN THEY HELP THE ISSUE?

HOW CAN THEY DETERMINE WHAT'S GOOD BAIT AND WHAT IS NOT?

IS THERE ANY WAY?

>> THEY CAN ASK.

TAKE THE 5 OR 10 SECONDS.

HEY, WE HEARD ABOUT THESE ASIAN CARP.

WE HEARD THAT THEY LOOK A LOT LIKE A SHAD.

AND WE HAVE AND I LEFT IT OVER THERE AT THE CHAIR.

BUT WE HAVE PAMPHLETS THAT SHOW WHAT ONE LOOKS LIKE COMPARED TO ONE OF THE INVASIVE SPECIES.

TAKE 30 SECONDS AND THE SAME THING.

IF THEY HAVE A QUESTION, THROW IT IN THE ZIPLOC BAG, DRY IT OUT.

TURN IT INTO YOUR CAPTAIN OR TO ONE OF >> THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND INFORMATION FROM THE LOCAL END USERS RIGHT HERE IN OHIO AND LAKE ERIE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THIS HAS BEEN SUCH AN INFORMATIVE AND EYE-OPENING DISCUSSION, FOR SURE.

UNFORTUNATELY, IT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS SHOW.

I WANT TO THANK ALL OF OUR PANEL MEMBERS AND MEMBERS OF OUR LIVE STUDIO AUDIENCE WHO HAVE BEEN QUIET THIS ENTIRE BROADCAST.

AND, OF COURSE, THANK YOU AT HOME FOR WATCHING THIS WGTE TOWN HALL: DETECTING INVASIVE SPECIES IN THE GREAT LAKES.