Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in to the point are those of the host of the program and its guests.

They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of WGTE public media.

Doni: A recent Pew survey revealed that only 44% of Americans are familiar with the Libertarian Party.

Despite this lack of awareness, libertarian candidate Tom Pruss received 15,381 votes, which amounted to 4.1% of the total cast in the recent race for a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives for Ohio's ninth district.

This performance le some to label him as a spoiler, suggesting that his candidacy was the primary reason for Derek Marin's los to Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur.

Mr. Pruss, however, disagrees.

He identifies as a sensible alternative to the traditional red and blue political divide.

Join me for a discussion with Mr. Pruss about the importance of the Libertarian Party in the changing political landscape.

I'm Doni Miller.

Welcome ... To The Point.

Pleas connect with us on social media.

As you know, you can email me at doni_miler@wgte.org.

And for this episod and any other additional extras, please go to wgte.org/to the point.

As you know, we have had candidates, I'm sorry, representatives from both parties talking about the recent election.

We had someone on from the Republican Party.

We had Schuyler Beckwith on who's the chai of the local Democratic Party.

But I think you're going to be particularly interested with our guest today.

We have Tom Pruss, who is a libertarian an a former candidate for Congress.

And you've made quite a name for yourself in your party in this most recent race.

But before we get started in before you say anything right now, I'd like for you to explain to people exactly who the libertarian Libertarian Party is.

Tom: The Libertarian Party is a group of people who are diligently, diligentl planning to take over the world.

To leave you alone.

We truly believe in in self individualism into the smaller government.

The more self freedoms you have, the better.

So that's kind of it in a nutshell.

Doni So when you say leave us alone, you mean just stay out of our lives?

Tom: Correct?

Correct.

There's no reason for government to be in your bedroom, in your everyday business, things like that.

It's it's it's you are a grown person.

You know what's right.

What's wrong?

And we we really rel on the idea that we are our own.

We are our individual liberties are self-evident.

Our founding fathers were some of the brilliant, most brilliant people that ever came about to form a government that was of the people, by the people.

And what we've seen through the years is that it's become more of let the government take over.

For me, which is which just goes down a terrible rabbit hole.

Doni: So let's talk about that a little more.

So when you say that, you are advocating for the government to leave us alone, to stay out of our bedrooms, to stay out of our lives.

You're obviously advocating for a smaller.

Correct?

Tom: Correct.

The the idea of local governance is more important than in overall reaching larger government.

The chairman of the Lucas County Democratic Party was very correct when she said old governance.

All elections are local.

That's where they has the mos impact on your individual lives.

The the legislatio that your city council or county commissioners passed has more of a direct impact than what does nationally.

And again, as I said about the about our forefathers or the founding fathers, they were brilliant in the idea of they wanted constant conflict.

That's why we have three separate branches of government that goes on.

They wanted that to happen.

Thomas Jefferson was right about having, U.S. representative terms being two years.

So we have constant revolution, or we should have constant revolution.

Elections are not should not be.

Elections for federal offices should not be, should not be a national thing.

Doni: You know, so the core of your message, this campaign was what if you could, synthesize it to three sentences?

Tom: $0.03 was, you are your own person.

You are You know how to run your life.

You don't need government to be in there, you know, gets people in ther that fully understand that, that want to let you live your life and not rule over you.

Doni: You know, it's interesting that you say that because the discussion around the reasons that the strategies, put forth by th the Democrats in this last race, were not quite on point.

Would you say that the reason that you received so many unexpected votes, I might say, is because your message was more direct?

Tom: I think coupled with that, the idea that when you had Blue Team, Red team would have candidates that were more interested in in the talking points or the whatever, the whatever the pollsters say, all these are hot topics that you should campaign on and not deal with real issues, real issues like, you know, we have an out-of-control spending from the federal government, that really impacts us every day when you go to the grocery store, what's inflation?

But other than mone being printed out of thin air, to, to pay for things that we just can't afford anymore.

And, and in this country, we are at a true crossroads.

Are we going to continue to spend trillions of dollar on a new missile defense system or a or a battleship, or are we going to use that money to help our friends and neighbors who have a a terrible natural disaster on their hands and have city?

Doni But what would you say to those folks who would say to you, we need those missiles and battleships?

This is a tough tim in the world, right now, but we.

Need those kinds of things, right?

We need national defense.

What would you say to thos folks who say, well, you know, the government, really, despite the bad rap, it gets it is is is not the major player in inflation.

What would you say to those folks?

Tom: I would say that I woul disagree tremendously with that.

The federal Reserve, a private company which is contracted by the federal government to print our money.

They they do everything they can to kowtow to the government's will of of of pumping more money into the economy.

And again, when you have so much money, when you devalue the dollar that way, when there's more money to chase less goods out there, that's what causes inflation.

It's not because the grocery store that operates on a 1% margin raised your raise.

Your cost.

You know, I am a business owner.

When inflation hits me, I have to pass that on to my clients.

I can't I can't continue to ea this or I will not a business.

Doni: That's absolutely right.

So what do you think makes your party more attractiv than what should make your party more attracted to Democrat in the current Democratic Party if you consider the traditional Democratic values?

Okay.

Tom: I consider us a, small liberalism in the idea of our philosophy.

Fiscally conservative.

We're I always laugh because I think we're we're more conservative than Republicans in the way it comes fiscal.

So we are more liberal than it is for the Democrats when it comes to social aspects of it, because we truly believe that we don't care what you do in your personal lives.

Whereas there has been legislation about demanding people use pronouns or things like that.

I can't force you to do anything, Donny, that you don't want to do, and I shouldn't never legislate you to do things that you don't want to do.

But I think the the biggest a draw to the Libertarian Party of course, is the idea of that individual liberty.

Liberty, background.

And I think that would put more Americans identify themselves as independent.

That's true.

You're just going to see whether it's green constitutionalist, libertarian.

You're going to see more.

These smaller parties grow in numbers just because we need a plurality within our electoral system.

The blue, blue, red, paradigm that exists right now is not sustainable in this day and age.

Doni: Because.

Tom: Because of, the idea, it's like you only have the lesser of two evils.

If there are two evils, you're still evil.

You need somebody to walk in there.

I've always used this analogy of is Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were on the ballot.

And you said, oh, that's the only two I can vote for.

And Fred Rogers walks in here.

Are you going to tel Fred Rogers you have no chance?

But I'd rathe have this despot over this one.

And I think that's where we come to the point in our country.

Not that our politicians are despots or evil or things like that.

It's the idea that we only get two really bad choices, and it seems like it's getting worse and wors as the years go down the line.

Doni: So what would what keeps your party from following in those same footsteps?

If you think about the fact that both parties are saying that they are being responsive to the needs of the American people, and they've made decisions that direct their paths in that way, yet they end up being, as you've described them, two parties that are basically evil.

What's your.

Tom: What sets us from what.

Doni: Prevents you from doing that?

Why should why should we trust you?

Tom: I I think that's because we, we, we approach thi with little more sensibilities and a little bit we, we have the idea of where we have come from, what what our challenges have been and what they are.

There's no I can't guarantee I personally cannot guarantee 20, 30, 40 years or even 100 years from now that a libertarian party is going to morph itself into some egomaniac or something.

I mean, lord knows who thought that the the the party of Abraham Lincoln would turn it the way it is now?

Right.

Okay.

And and the party of FD turns into a party that's now.

I mean, nobody sees those things down the line.

It's the we base it on the individual.

And if we if we instill in peopl the idea of our founding fathers and their and their basic instinct of what government should be, I mean, George Washington didn' want one foreign entanglements, but yet here we find ourselves the leader of foreign entanglements, whether it be NATO, whether it be, the things like that.

I mean, these ar these are important things that, you know, we should have heated their warnings and yet we did not.

Doni: So what would you do?

We only have a few minutes left in this segment.

So, but I want I want you to try and answer this.

If you can.

What would you have done if you had one differently than what Marcy Kaptur is doing?

Tom: Well, the first thing I would advocated is that we that we do everything we could to repeal the Patriot Act.

I find it ironic that Congress always creates legislation that does totally the opposite of what it says.

There's nothing patriotic in the Patriot on the Patriot Act.

It gives the NSA carte blanche to decide that they're going to start spying on people, things like that.

It curtails your civil liberties as much as it can.

So my job would be in Congress to to sit there and make sure that we protect the individua rights of the American citizens.

Who, by the way, is the government?

Not these people that get elected to their.

They're just a representative of what people feel that represents them as the most.

Doni: So hold that thought.

Okay.

We're going to go away.

But we'll be right back.

And I'd like to pick up where you just left off.

We will be right back.

Please stay with us.

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Doni: Libertarian Tom Pruss is with us.

He is also a former candidate for Congress in this last election.

Received an amazing number of votes for, for a part that was honestly underfunded.

You talked about the media when I was reading, preparing for for my talk with you.

You talked about not having, a fair amount of media being ignored by the media, essentially.

And still you showed up and you showed out.

So we're we're talking this morning abou what you would do differently.

And you talked about, the very first thing that you would do differently than, than Congresswoman Kaptur would be to repeal the Patriot Act.

Why would you pick that as opposed to, issue like rampant voter suppression?

Immigration.

Why would those issues that really do go to the hear of the humanity of this country, if in fact the Libertarian Party is focused on allowing people to live wit with less government intrusion?

Well, you and again.

Tom: Those are important aspects of it.

Most of my libertarian friends would have said the first thing I would do is audit the fed, you know, and things like that.

I use the Patriot Act because it's probably the most egregious part of what government has done to curtail rights within within the country.

And the the surveillance of individual people in the United States.

You know, Mis Kaptur had 43 years, you know, if I were there for 43 years, there's no question there would be a lot of issues that could be attacked and, and and looked at.

But again, I just find that to b one of the most important part of, of the federal governmen is the things that they do to, to suppress our individual rights and liberties.

Doni So do you think something like the Patriot Act is really reflective of what people were were discussing as their frustrations during this last election?

Tom: I think this this last election and the number of votes that I received, I think it was more agains the negative barbs between the two candidates.

If you watched the ads that were on television, I think most voters rely on those types of things to give them an idea of what they can stand for.

I agree.

If you walked away from that, you would say Marcy Kaptur is only concerned about women having abortions, and you're only cared about Derrick Marion because he wants to to build a wall and kick out all those immigrants.

And and at some point, people have to start talking about more issues.

And I think people are gettin tired of voting against somebody and wanting to vote for somebody.

Doni: I will agree with you that that this was a particularly difficult, campaign.

I've talked to folks who are younger than I who are not interested in politics anymore because they view it as not a topic and not a discussion of the issues anymore, not a discussion of what they need as peopl living in these United States, but rather attacks some totally misinformed myths, misinformation, lots of misinformation and fairly negative, approaches to each other.

How, though, do they turn that around?

How does the Libertarian Party not become involved in that?

Tom: Very similar to the protests in the 1960s.

It's about being involve on the correct way of changing minds and hearts about what government can do for you.

Doni: So what's the correct way of changing minds and hearts?

Tom: The correct way would be getting more people involved and letting the know how directly does a a piece of legislation, especially again, going local, how that piece of legislation affects you?

I laug how people always say about you libertarian only come out every four years.

You try out a no name person.

But they don't think about there's thousands of of libertarian elected officials in this country.

We have the mayor of Portsmouth, we have, a city councilman in Oregon, Ohio that's a libertarian.

Doni: And there was a candidate for president.

Tom: And always a candidate for president.

So if they even fully understand.

And just to back this up for a second, our candidate for president was an openly gay man.

And to think that in 2020, the year of the woman, we had a woman running for president against two men, two older men.

Yet we had no press, no knowledge of that, no acknowledgment of it, because people are like, oh my gosh, we can't afford to waste our vote on this.

And it's something that's not going to happen.

It's not a wasted vote.

If you're voting for principle, if you're voting for conscience, if you're voting for somebody that you could take.

I agree I agree more with that person.

So again, to wi the hearts and minds you have to the people out there have to understand that there's more than just the two parties and there's a party out there.

There's other parties out there that reflect your views.

Join them, help them out.

Doni: You know, speaking of that, I know that you know, that people were calling you a spoiler.

Tom: I can't because I learne something that's already rotten.

Seriously?

Doni: Oh, okay.

That's pretty good.

But they were calling you a spoiler and, essentially, saying that it was your fault that Marcy won and and, Derek and.

Tom: I have a little newsflash for everybody.

Out of the almost 16,000 people that voted me, I probably personally, no.

100, and I know of 300 of them.

And most of my friends that voted for me are registered Democrats.

Who are who who although they, they supported Marcy.

They, they said well it's time for her to, to go.

I like Tom, I like his philosophy, I like hi I know he's a sensible person.

That would, you know, do good things.

For these analysts I call them I, they must be ESP mind readers or something like that because they, they're quick to assume that these people would have voted for Derek Marion over me.

I don't know of many Republicans that are pro-immigration, pro bodil autonomy, pro drug legalization.

So I have a very hard time grasping that concept that those people would have voted for Derek Marin and knowing that even my so they're making grandiose assumptions, knowing that my son, who's a registered Democrat who voted for me.

Thank you.

Joe.

That he would have that he would have voted for Derek Marion.

So that's the type of people that ideal.

And knowing that most o my votes came from Lucas County, where Marcy Kaptu handedly defeated Derek Cameron.

I have a strange feeling those people felt comfortable enough that Marcy was going to win reelection, that they felt that they could vote for me.

Doni: Really?

Tom: I really I absolutely.

Because Derek had a commanding lead in all the surrounding counties.

There' no way that somebody who's had, who received only $20 from two friends that he swore do not send him money.

And, and a Facebook page garnered 15,000 votes.

And yet you're saying that I'm the one that caused this election to go the way it did?

Doni: But, you know, part of that part of the conversation is that the approach of the the local Libertarian Party to this election was really not aggressive enough in terms of getting, the presence out there, in terms of raising the money, in terms of sharing your message.

So the folks that I talked to when when we talked about, you're coming on to talk to me today, said, you know, where are they?

Like if they really want to help us.

Why aren't they telling us more about that?

And so your your Facebook pag and your refusal to accept money and only getting the, the $200 and all of that, it it feels sort of it makes the process.

And please, I say this wit the greatest amount of respect.

It makes the approach seem a little disingenuous.

Tom: And it's not disingenuous because again, I'm I'm against a huge I don't wake up one morning and say I'm going to run for office.

We received ballot access in in in August.

Doni: And so difficult.

Tom: It is you because.

Yeah.

Because the Republican legislature created legislation that prevents third parties and getting them the ballot for this reason.

They hate the idea of competition.

They're thinking, of cours we have to run against the red or the blue.

The blue team.

The last thing we want to do is have a gold team out there running against us as well.

So politician once they get in power and again it's both sides.

Once they get in power they create an idea to keep themselves in power.

That's the whole purpose of their legislation.

It's for the same reason why issue when one went down tremendously.

Because the the muddying of the waters, you could say of of the message and things like that.

Doni: Valid language was confusing.

Absolutely.

Tom: Absolutely.

I mean, in Lucas County, the Republicans only garnered one person to get reelected, and that was from a I was a state senator or state representativ with a gerrymandered district.

So every other office that they managed to field the, the, the, the the Luca County Republican Party is very, impotent at this point because they only managed to fiel four people for a county race.

All the rest.

Doni: Well, so back so then to my point.

If these things are things that the, the Libertarian Party find difficult to manage, why not run a more aggressive, more informed campaign.

Tom: Well and again I was going to I'm going to tell yo that you ain't seen nothing yet.

Doni: Okay.

Tom: We do have elections coming up next year.

And this year, now that we have ballot access, it's easier for us to recruit candidates to get people on the ballot, to actually formulate a campaign and do this, in a two months time.

You know, it's very difficult, very difficult.

So now we have strategies, we have planning.

We're going forward.

You'r going to see many more new names on the ballo when you go to the ballot box.

Doni: So does, your performanc in this race, this most recent race lay the groundwork, pathway for you to run again.

Tom: I tell you what.

No.

It has given a lot of people hope.

Just just this past week, I received a phone call from a gentleman in Jefferson County, Ohio.

He's.

He saw the results, and he said, how did you do it?

I want to do this.

And this is a man who' family is deep in that county.

Things like that.

His his background is agriculture.

And he has, he's a professor, and he says, I want to run for office.

You're my inspiration now.

Doni: Wow.

Tom: So it has that effect.

I'm.

It's like I'm just a schmo.

You know who who told when the party asked him.

Hey, would you run?

Sure.

People say, well, that's disingenuous to you or you weren't.

You weren't really, legitimate on this campaign.

I said no, once I was in, I was in, you were in.

Doni: So you were schmo that got 4% of the vote.

I am really, really glad to talk to you.

And thank you for joinin us.

Tom: Thanks for having me.

Doni: Keep in touch.

I'd like to talk about this more and thank you all for joining us as well.

And as you go through your day.

Remember to be kind.

Just because you can.

I'll see you next time.

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