GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

Amna Nawaz is away.

On the "NewsHour" tonight: Rescue workers desperately search for trapped survivors after thousands are killed by a major earthquake that shook Turkey and Syria.

The U.S. works to recover debris from the Chinese balloon it shot down.

What China is trying to accomplish with repeated incursions into U.S. airspace.

And while women in Afghanistan face intensifying oppression from the Taliban, many still find ways to have their voices heard.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

Stretches of Southern Turkey and Northern Syria are in ruins tonight after a powerful earthquake ripped through the region.

The numbers are staggering, more than 3,700 dead, some 13,000 injured and tens of thousands of homeless.

The predawn quake hit in Southern Turkey with a 7.8 magnitude and shook buildings as far away as Israel.

A second quake followed with hundreds of aftershocks.

A moment of pure terror, people fleeing for their lives in Malatya, Turkey, whole buildings reduced to dust as the powerful earthquake ravaged Turkey and Syria.

Rescuers now battling freezing temperatures as they sift through debris, searching for survivors and pulling out the dead.

Many left waiting in shock for news of family and friends.

BIRCAN RIZVAN, Turkey Resident (through translator): There are people still trapped under rubble.

I have a friend living in this apartment.

His children were rescued from the top floor, but his daughter broke an arm.

We will see what happened to those living on the ground floors.

GEOFF BENNETT: Turkey's President Erdogan called it the worst disaster since the 1930s.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, Turkish President (through translator): We do not know how far the number of dead and injured will rise, as debris removal works continue in many buildings in the quake zone.

Our hope is that we will recover from this disaster with the least loss of life.

GEOFF BENNETT: One woman trapped in her destroyed apartment building rescued by crane.

Cheaply and improperly built apartments have been a problem across the country, many of them now teetering on the edge of collapse.

Across the border in Syria, workers scramble to pull victims out from under destroyed buildings, a harrowing scene of a baby born in the rubble who was rushed to safety.

The mother did not survive.

Elsewhere, a rescuer frantically carried a little girl away from ruins.

One survivor of the quakes described his family's escaped from an almost certain death.

OSAMA ABDEL HAMID, Earthquake Survivor (through translator): I have four children and my wife.

We were at home sleeping peacefully.

We felt the quake.

It was very strong, so I pulled out with my wife and kids and ran directly towards the entrance of the house.

As we reached the entrance of the building, it collapsed totally on us.

A wooden door fell on us, which saved us.

The building consists of four stories.

None of the people in the other three stories have survived.

GEOFF BENNETT: At this hospital in Afrin, more evidence of the enormity of the loss.

Bodies wrapped in blankets filled the floor.

The hardest-hit regions in Syria are home to millions of displaced refugees from the country's civil war, living in poverty with little access to health care and few resources.

The United Nations secretary-general tonight calling for support for both countries.

ANTONIO GUTERRES, United Nations Secretary-General: Let's work together in solidarity to assist all those hit by this disaster, many of whom were already in dire needs of humanitarian aid.

GEOFF BENNETT: The U.S. says it's working with Turkish authorities to provide assistance and rescue crews.

More offers of aid have been pouring in as the world watches the death toll climb.

We're joined now from Istanbul by Kieren Barnes, the Syria country director for the humanitarian group Mercy Corps.

Thanks for being with us.

And this is a very complex search-and-rescue operation.

It's been hampered by severe cold and snow.

There are also powerful aftershocks.

What's the situation the ground right now?

KIEREN BARNES, Syria Country Director, Mercy Corps: Well, thanks, Geoff.

Our team is actually based in Northwest Syria.

And it's probably one of the most vulnerable parts of this region.

So there's very limited infrastructure in that part of Syria.

So one of the biggest challenges today has simply been the electricity functioning, communication working, so that we can actually contact our teams that are on the ground and actually assessing what those needs are and how people have been impacted.

We're primarily looking at shelter as the immediate need, because, within Northwest Syria, a lot of the infrastructure is damaged, houses have collapsed, apartment blocks have collapsed.

So people are without homes at the moment.

So, shelter is the most immediate one.

We are in probably the worst part of winter.

The next few days are going to be extremely cold.

So we have that additional pressure on top.

So, having a safe place to sleep, mattresses to sleep on, blankets, these kind of very basic, but immediate needs are for the next few days.

I think, following that, there's going to be some other critical areas that we do need to look at.

And that will include things like the access to water.

People who have been moving throughout the last 12 years of this conflict living in temporary shelters such as tents, they need water on a regular basis simply to survive.

Those water sources, we know, have been damaged through this earthquake.

So, we need to find ways to find that water to bring it to those people, to maintain what is actually our regular work in Syria.

So, I think those are going to be some key challenges and what we're going to be working on over the next few days and throughout the weeks ahead.

GEOFF BENNETT: For Syrians who have endured a brutal civil war, this sense of suffering is really all too familiar.

According to the International Rescue Committee, many Syrians have been displaced as many as 20 times.

How is that exacerbated by the effects of this earthquake?

KIEREN BARNES: Yes, and this -- to be honest, it includes some of our staff as well who work with us.

They are also displaced families who throughout this conflict have been affected and have had to move multiple times.

The Syrian population is extremely resilient.

And the fact that they have continued to survive throughout the last 12 years of this conflict does speak a lot about those communities.

However, here we are again with another crisis.

The last 12 months have been tough.

We have had the Ukraine conflict, which has also impacted on the availability of food.

We have had cholera just before the winter, which again has had -- has been devastating for communities.

And now we have what's happened today, which is really devastating and concerning about what happens next.

We do know the Syrian people will keep moving forward.

That is for sure.

But they are going to need a significant amount of support.

And that's also the concern that we have is, Syria has been dropping off the kind of priority list for the past few years because of other situations around the world.

But, with what's happened today, it's something that cannot be forgotten.

And we need to step up.

We need the international community to support the people of Syria tonight and tomorrow night and then through the rest of the weeks and months ahead.

GEOFF BENNETT: And Turkey, as you know, is facing a collapsing currency, runaway inflation.

How is that economic hardship affecting the rescue effort?

And how will it affect the recovery effort long term?

KIEREN BARNES: Yes, the economic collapse, to be honest, in the whole region has been extremely difficult for people, even just finding jobs to continue their daily lives, prior to this current crisis.

We have seen the Syrian pound also have huge issues around inflation.

Things are devaluing all the time.

It makes it very difficult for people to have businesses, to find jobs, and to support themselves.

The global economy is impacting on this in a very significant way.

So, what happens around the world have impacts on those people inside Syria additionally.

And this will make it hard.

One of the probably bigger concerns in the immediate future will be the access to goods.

We have, as Mercy Corps, preposition stocks, such as mattresses, blankets, jerricans, these kinds of things that we can distribute immediately.

But those resources will run out, and we will need suppliers, we will need contractors to have those stocks.

And I think it's being able to access that, again, will be -- will -- there will be pressure on that over the coming weeks, because everybody will be looking for those items, and we will all be trying to source it.

GEOFF BENNETT: Kieren Barnes with the humanitarian group Mercy Corps speaking with us from Istanbul tonight.

Kieren, thank you.

KIEREN BARNES: Thanks.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines: Russian forces kept up the pressure in Eastern Ukraine, possibly building toward a new offensive.

Already, heavy fighting intensified around the city of Bakhmut.

Meantime, crews works to restore power in Odessa after a fire.

It started in equipment that's been damaged by repeated Russia shelling.

Israeli forces killed five Palestinian gunmen early today in the latest raid on the occupied West Bank.

The Israeli military said a gun battle erupted as troops tracked down militants after a failed attack on a Jewish settlement.

Palestinian officials called the raid a crime.

More than 40 Palestinians and seven Israelis have been killed so far this year.

Tens of thousands of nurses and ambulance workers in Britain are back on strike.

Unions say the 48-hour walkout is the largest in the history of the U.K.'s public health system.

Health workers today renewed their demands for a pay increase amid the worst inflation in four decades.

They said it's killing their profession.

REBECCA COSGRAVE, Striking Nurse: I think we're going to find it harder and harder to recruit, harder and harder to retain staff.

A lot of people have left the profession already because they're so disillusioned.

I think we have got to look to the future.

GEOFF BENNETT: The nurses plan to strike again tomorrow.

In the meantime, they say emergency care and cancer treatments will continue.

In Hong Kong, a landmark national security trial began for some of the city's most prominent pro-democracy activists.

Their supporters gathered outside the court for a trial expected to last 90 days.

The 18 defendants are accused of holding an illegal primary in 2020 and trying to bring down the government.

It's seen as part of China's clampdown that has mostly silenced Hong Kong's pro-democracy movement.

Back in this country, Dell is the latest tech company to cut jobs.

That computer maker says it's shedding 6,600 positions, about 5 percent of its work force.

And, on Wall Street, stocks fell over fresh worries about interest rates and inflation.

The Dow Jones industrial average lost 35 points to close it 33891.

The Nasdaq fell 119 points, or 1 percent.

The S&P 500 slipped 25.

And still to come on the "PBS NewsHour": calls for paid leave grow louder 30 years after the passage of the Family Medical Leave Act; hundreds of migrant children remain separated from their families despite the push to reunite them; and we look at the major takeaways and surprises from the Grammy Awards.

The U.S. sent divers to salvage what they believe is spy equipment from the Chinese balloon shot down this weekend off the South Carolina coast.

William Brangham has the story.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Geoff, Chinese officials still maintain this was a civilian weather balloon that went off course and again criticized the U.S. for shooting it down.

But the Pentagon has rejected that claim, saying it was clearly for surveillance and under the control of the Chinese government.

Last month, the balloon entered U.S. airspace over Alaska, but it became public last week as it traveled over Montana and some U.S. military facilities, before continuing on towards the East Coast.

The balloon was shut down once it was over the Atlantic on President Biden's order and its thousands of pounds of falling debris post little hazard.

The Pentagon said another Chinese balloon has been detected over Latin America, and that at least three other Chinese balloons briefly crossed parts of the U.S. during the Trump administration.

Officials say their presence was not known at the time and only discovered by reviewing archived satellite imagery.

So, for more on China's possible strategy here, we're joined by Susan Shirk.

She's a longtime China analyst, and she chairs the 21st Century China Center at U.C.

San Diego.

Her latest book is "Overreach: How China Derailed Its Peaceful Rise."

Susan Shirk, thank you so much for being here.

The Chinese claim this is a weather balloon blown off course.

The Pentagon says that's not true.

It was clearly a surveillance device.

Where do you come down on that argument?

SUSAN SHIRK, University of California, San Diego: Well, I'm persuaded by what the Pentagon has to say.

I think weather device is just a cover story.

It may persuade some people in China, but certainly not internationally.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Help me understand something here.

Last week, Secretary of State Antony Blinken canceled a long-planned diplomatic mission to China because of this balloon.

Surely, the Chinese knew this balloon was going to be over the United States on the eve of this diplomatic mission.

So how do you explain that?

SUSAN SHIRK: Well, it certainly is a puzzle, because Xi Jinping and the Chinese government were eager to have Blinken go to China and to try to prevent this downward spiral in relations with the United States from continuing.

China has a lot of domestic problems right now.

Xi Jinping has a need to restore confidence in his leadership.

So they really did want him to come.

So this is very self-defeating.

And I conclude from that that's it's the result of poor internal coordination, and not a decision by Xi Jinping himself.

I think that Xi probably has approved this program of surveillance balloons, but I really doubt that he approved this particularly brazen effort to transverse the entire continental United States just a few days before Blinken was about to come.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: President Xi, the way he's portrayed, at least in Western media, is as the most powerful leader China has had in decades and a sort of omnipotent, all-powerful leader.

So, if what you're describing is correct, how -- it seems to dent that image that he is this all-controlling, all-seeing leader.

SUSAN SHIRK: Well, yes.

And we had a lot of these problems of poor coordination in earlier periods in China, where you had a collective leadership, and the top leader didn't necessarily know what various bureaucracies were doing.

But, in the case of Xi Jinping, he has claimed full responsibility, and yet he hasn't organized a system in which he can control everything.

It's a big, complex, bureaucratic system.

And once he gives the green light to the program, subordinates do what they think Xi Jinping wants to do.

So, I mean, some people believe that there may be elements within the Chinese PLA who were trying to subvert the diplomacy.

But I think it's more likely that people were on kind of autopilot here and they just kept doing it.

And then the winds may have had something to do with it as well.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Reportedly, there were also failed attempts by U.S. officials to contact their Chinese counterparts when this balloon was circling the U.S. What does that -- this incident tell us about the superpowers' ability to talk when they need to talk when there's a potential crisis?

SUSAN SHIRK: Yes, I believe this is the most worrisome feature of the whole incident.

The Biden administration tried to consult with their Chinese counterparts.

Either the Chinese didn't answer the phone or they answered the phone, but said they needed more time.

Nobody feels they can take a position until Xi Jinping authorizes it.

That might have been part of the problem.

But, in any case, there -- our ability to coordinate during the crisis is really very poor and very worrisome.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: As we mentioned, this trip by Blinken that was canceled that theoretically will happen again was to reduce tensions between the two nations.

Do you think those tensions can be reduced?

SUSAN SHIRK: I'm not sure.

I'm pretty agnostic on that question.

But I believe we have to test it.

And that's why I thought it was very positive that the president met Xi Jinping in Bali, that Blinken was going following.

And it would give us an opportunity to see whether or not Xi Jinping would be willing to moderate some of his more belligerent foreign policy, his repressive domestic policy in order to stabilize relations with the United States.

I really don't know the answer to that.

But I thought that we needed to try, especially at this time, when China's economy is on the ropes.

I mean, there are a lot of good reasons for Xi to want to moderate these policies in order to restore confidence and improve the Chinese economy.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, Susan Shirk of the 21st Century China Center, thank you so much for being here.

SUSAN SHIRK: My pleasure.

Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: This weekend marked the 30th anniversary of the Family and Medical Leave Act becoming law.

But the law, which provides unpaid job-protected leave to millions of Americans, still comes up short for too many workers.

Laura Barron-Lopez has a look at its impact and the challenges ahead.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: The Family and Medical Leave Act was hailed as revolutionary for its time when President Bill Clinton signed it into law in 1993.

Workers were guaranteed job protection if they needed to take time off to care for themselves, a newborn baby, or a sick family member.

At a White House ceremony last week, former President Clinton said the landmark legislation is more widely acknowledged than any other action of his presidency.

And he shared one father's story about the law's impact.

BILL CLINTON, Former President of the United States: He grabbed me by the elbow.

And I turned around.

He had big tears his eyes.

And he said: "My little girl's not going to make it much longer."

But he said: "Because of the Family and Medical Leave Act, these months I have spent with her are by far the most important time of my life."

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: But the Family and Medical Leave Act, or FMLA, only goes so far.

According to a recent analysis, 44 percent of American workers do not qualify.

For more on this, I'm joined by Jocelyn Frye.

She is president of the National Partnership for Women and Families.

Jocelyn, thanks so much for joining the "NewsHour."

You have described the Family and Medical Leave Act as groundbreaking.

What impact has it had on families over these last 30 years?

JOCELYN FRYE, President, National Partnership for Women and Families: Well, first of all, thank you for having me.

I mean, it's had an extraordinary impact.

We estimate that, over 30 years, more than 463 million people have used the FMLA at some point.

That is simply an astounding number.

And I think it speaks to the need that was present 30 years ago and the continuing need that families face just to make sure that they can care for loved ones in moments of an emergency.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And at the end of the day, though, this is unpaid leave for families.

So what limitations does this law pose for workers?

And what specific demographics are left uncovered by this law?

JOCELYN FRYE: Well, you're right.

I mean, it is unpaid leave.

So, while, on the one hand, it's job-protected, there are a lot of workers who simply can't afford to take time off and lose pay.

We estimate that, each year, about 10 million workers don't take leave.

And seven million of those workers don't do so because they can't afford to take unpaid leave.

The other thing that we know, of the 44 percent of workers who aren't covered by the FMLA, that workers of color are disproportionately in that number, 48 percent of what Latinx workers, 47 percent of Asian workers, 43 percent of Black workers.

So workers of color are bearing the brunt of the gaps of the FMLA.

And those are gaps that we should fill.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And President Biden recently said that he was going to continue to push for paid family and medical leave.

Efforts to pass that last year failed largely because of one Democratic senator, Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia.

He did not support tethering that, the paid family and medical leave, to the Inflation Reduction Act, which was that party-line vote by Democrats.

There's also, though, a new bipartisan group in the House that is trying to pass this paid national leave program.

And they're meeting for the first time tomorrow ahead of the president State of the Union speech.

Can a national paid leave program pass a divided Congress?

JOCELYN FRYE: Well, I think it certainly can.

I mean, we have to remember that the FMLA was a bipartisan bill.

There were both Republicans and Democrats who worked for its passage.

The other thing we have to remember is that it was vetoed twice by President Bush before it was finally enacted and signed into law by President Clinton.

So -- and it took nine years to pass the FMLA.

So, while the Congress may look challenging at the moment, we are not giving up, and we will never give up, because we know that the public across the country, Republicans and Democrats and independents, want paid family and medical leave.

So, we will continue to push for it.

And if we -- we came close with Build Back Better, but the good thing is that we came so close, closer than we have ever been before.

And we know that it's still going to happen eventually.

So we will just keep pressing.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And I should note that the president was pushing for 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave.

Some small businesses, Jocelyn, and conservative think tanks have said that a national paid leave program would either reduce productivity in the workplace or it would also create a heavy financial burden on small businesses that have less than 10 employees.

What's your response to that?

JOCELYN FRYE: Well, I would say, first of all, those are the same criticisms that we heard or people did hear 30 years ago when the FMLA was passed.

And I think the data speaks for itself.

What we know is that large majorities, 92 percent of employers, say that the FMLA has not been a problem.

A third of those employers say that it's actually helped with productivity.

So, we know that the research speaks otherwise.

We also know that there are employers out there today who do have paid family and medical leave who will say that it has been good for business.

It helps to retain workers.

It makes them more productive.

So, many of those critiques are just not borne out by the data.

And I would say, for very small businesses, what I would say to them is, if you listen to groups like Small Business Majority, what they will tell you is that investment of a paid leave program at the national level will take off some of the costs that the small businesses now have to deal with.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Jocelyn Frye of the National Partnership for Women and Families, we have to end it there.

Thank you so much for your time.

JOCELYN FRYE: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: It has been more than a year since the Taliban banned teenage girls in Afghanistan from school, and women there can't attend college, aren't allowed to work with aid groups or even go to amusement parks.

In essence, they cannot lead normal lives.

We have been speaking to young girls whose dreams had been stifled and women protesters who have been standing up against this crackdown in the face of serious threats.

Nick Schifrin has their stories.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Afghan women are undaunted, but they're hunted.

A woman in the red scarf will call Roya, she and her friends are at war.

The Taliban target her and other female activists who dare to protest, including last August in what they call the Dark Day, one year of Taliban.

We spoke to her by phone and are protecting her identity.

ROYA, Protester (through translator): They beat me and my friends up.

Most of us were held hostage.

They were shooting guns right in front of us, and they were threatening us.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Before the Taliban takeover, she worked in the government.

Her daughters attended school.

They and she lost everything.

She's fighting for the life she once had.

And, for that, she's punished.

ROYA (through translator): They hit my back with the butt of a rifle.

They hit my hands with a whip.

They kicked me too.

Just like me, most of my friends have been beaten up and arrested.

Some of my friends were Taliban hostages for almost a month.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Nevertheless, she persists, demanding change, but suffering immediate blowback.

ROYA (through translator): After every protest, I couldn't go home for almost a month, because there was the possibility of my location being discovered and my getting arrested.

Each time after I protest, I receive calls from anonymous numbers.

They warn me that, if I protest again or come out onto the street, I will be killed or vanished in a way that nobody will be able to understand what happened to me.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And yet her acts of courage create confidence in a younger generation, including this 20-year-old college student we will call Farah.

FARAH, College Student: I'm watching women who are protesting in the streets.

It's a big hope for us.

And if there would be a revolution, absolutely, it will be done by women.

NICK SCHIFRIN: She was studying to become a dentist, but now she's banned from college.

So, the student has become the professor.

She's teaching English at a secret school online.

FARAH: I still have hope.

I am teaching girls who are banned to get an education through online platforms.

I record my voice.

I record presentations.

Our activities are somehow under radar.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And that's what saves her.

Because the Taliban track secret schools, she understands the risk.

FARAH: They can kill me, or they can put me in jail.

They will torture me.

I'm resolved to do it because I believe that these opportunities that I'm providing for girls really deserve it.

They have gotten depression.

They're crying all the time.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Depression is a harsh reality for most young Afghan women.

One we will call Fauzia used to be the happiest girl in school.

Now her hopes have been crushed.

FAUZIA, College Student: This is really, really dark.

And I think that my all wishes and my all dreams are die, and I can't achieve them.

I don't know what to do.

And that really broke my heart.

And it's really bad.

I was, like, girl with big dreams.

I really don't know what will happen.

And I don't see any brightness.

I don't see any light thing in my future.

NICK SCHIFRIN: That darkness is literal for a woman will call Bibi.

BIBI, Protester (through translator): Right now, I'm in a very dark and small room where I'm scared that a Talib could just come at any time.

NICK SCHIFRIN: She too used to be a government employee.

Last year, she protested multiple times.

She says she's willing to sacrifice her blood for freedom.

BIBI (through translator): My family is really scared for my life.

They tell me that: "One day you, will get killed.

Your life is in danger, and we won't even be able to find your body."

But when I think about it, everything I do is worth it.

If my blood brings education or human rights to the next generation of Afghan women, I'm ready to do it.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Now it's not just a fight for human rights.

It's a fight for survival.

This hospital is full of children suffering from pneumonia.

And these parents pray over their own child's grave.

He died last week of hypothermia.

This has been the worst winter in a decade, and two-thirds of the country needs humanitarian assistance.

BIBI (through translator): The situation here is way worse than it is reported in the media.

People are facing extreme poverty and hunger here.

When I go to the bakery to buy bread, people are just like ships lined up outside, men and women waiting for someone to give them bread.

NICK SCHIFRIN: We spoke to the U.N.'s top humanitarian official, Martin Griffiths, before the earthquake in Turkey.

What conditions did you see there?

What conditions do Afghans currently face?

MARTIN GRIFFITHS, U.N.

Emergency Relief Coordinator: It's very -- it's dire.

And there's a reason why Afghanistan is the largest humanitarian aid program in the world in this year, because they have suffered terrible droughts.

They have -- they are experiencing an extraordinarily brutal winter.

Six million people in Afghanistan are close to famine-like conditions, and 28 million need humanitarian assistance.

It's grim.

NICK SCHIFRIN: I don't mean to date you, but you have been working in Afghanistan for four decades.

Have you ever seen conditions like the conditions that Afghanistan faces today?

MARTIN GRIFFITHS: So this is about as bad as it gets, because it's the combination of the effect of climate change, the effect of decades of conflict, and the isolation of Afghanistan, which came along with the Taliban taking over the country a year-and-a-half ago.

So the banking system doesn't work.

You can't make transactions.

People can't access their bank accounts.

They desperately need and depend on humanitarian aid.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The Taliban have banned women from working with domestic and international nongovernmental organizations.

You have called that a potential death blow for your humanitarian efforts in Afghanistan.

Why?

MARTIN GRIFFITHS: Without women working in the delivery of humanitarian assistance, we can't access women and girls.

And women and girls are always our primary target beneficiary for humanitarian assistance and protection.

And, in Afghanistan, that means you must have women working in the front lines of humanitarian organizations.

Otherwise, we won't know if we have reached the right people, understood the assessment of the need, on top of the rights of women, which have been impeded by these edicts.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And so what was your message to the Taliban?

MARTIN GRIFFITHS: The message was, first of all, very clear.

This eject from the 24th of December stopping women and work does you no favors.

It needs to be rescinded.

Two sectors, at least, health and education, have already, since that edict of last month, been exempted from it.

The second message to all those Taliban leaders that I met with my colleagues is, expand those exemptions to the all the sectors that require assistance, whether it's refugees, whether it's basic services, whether it's protection against gender-based violence.

And the reaction from the Taliban was, we understand your concern.

This is a universal response.

And we are, in fact, in the process of preparing guidelines.

And they said, I think you will be positively surprised by those guidelines.

Well, we will have to see.

NICK SCHIFRIN: You said that the Taliban have asked you to be patient while waiting for those guidelines.

You have dealt with Taliban for decades.

Are they just stalling?

MARTIN GRIFFITHS: No, I don't think they're stalling, but patience is not unlimited.

They hope to have these guidelines done and out by March.

I hope so too.

But there's one more thing which needs to happen.

And this is, I think, almost as important.

And that is that the international community needs to engage with the Taliban, across-the-board engagement with the Taliban on all issues, like counterterrorism, like counternarcotics, about the economy, because there are many things that we could do for the people of Afghanistan which has been held back because of the lack of a relationship and engagement with the Taliban.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Washington says that it is not impeding any kind of humanitarian access.

But, of course, the U.S. maintains Afghanistan's foreign reserves frozen in international institutions.

Do you believe the U.S. needs to change its policy and have more engagement with the Taliban and less punishment of the Taliban?

MARTIN GRIFFITHS: My message to the U.S. government is, exercise your leadership to make -- to ensure that Afghanistan is not an isolated, insulated, obscure place, but a place that we understand the positions of its leaders, and that we approve eventually of the ways in which they allow us to help their people.

NICK SCHIFRIN: At the same time, I have talked to other humanitarian officials who believe that you and the U.N. are a little too deferential to host countries, and that they would want you to criticize host countries publicly, rather than keep any criticism private, in the hope that you will maintain your access to the country.

What's your response to some of that criticism?

MARTIN GRIFFITHS: I don't -- I think the record is pretty clear that punitive rhetoric or punishment, they have a pretty poor record of achieving the results that we need to see.

So I am a believer in encouragement and clarity and accountability as a means of engaging.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And regardless of the policy, the people of Afghanistan desperately need help quickly, right?

MARTIN GRIFFITHS: They desperately need help quickly.

Isolation means people die when they need food.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Martin Griffiths, the U.N.'s top humanitarian official, thank you very much.

MARTIN GRIFFITHS: Thank you very much, Nick.

GEOFF BENNETT: It's been two years since the Biden administration took on the task of reconnecting children with their families after they were split up at the Southern border under the Trump administration's zero tolerance policy.

While the Biden White House has succeeded in uniting some 600 children with their parents, roughly 1,000 of them still remain separated.

Caitlin Dickerson has reported on this extensively for "The Atlantic," and joins us now.

Caitlin, thanks for being with us.

CAITLIN DICKERSON, "The Atlantic": Thank you for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, the Trump administration's zero tolerance policy, we know from your reporting, separated more than 5,000 children from their parents with no process for reuniting them.

The roughly 1,000 children that still remain separated, what do we know about them?

How are they being cared for?

CAITLIN DICKERSON: So, the one thing that is true of all the children who have not been reunited yet with their parents is that they're no longer being housed in the government-overseen shelters where they were initially sent right after separation.

But that's really all they share in common.

The children who have not been reunited with their parents yet are scattered across the country.

Some are living with extended relatives.

Some are living with family friends who agreed to take them in.

And some have been taken into the care of state child welfare organizations and may be living in foster homes or adoptive homes.

And that's one of the challenges to reuniting these children with their parents is that they can be very hard to find.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, Caitlin, it seems the number of children who have yet to be reunited with their parents, it seems like that number is growing.

Why is that?

Are there more parents coming forward?

CAITLIN DICKERSON: That's right.

So, these numbers are a moving target.

And I actually wanted to clarify.

You initially mentioned about 1,000 children who have yet to be reunified.

That's the number we're hearing from the Biden administration.

But immigrant advocates would push back, because the Biden administration is only considering a subset of those total families who were separated under the Trump administration.

And that's the number from which they're pursuing their work.

That total number is about 3,900.

But, as you mentioned, actually, more than 5,000 families were separates.

Some of those were excluded from the federal court case that required these reunifications.

And so advocates argued that the total number of families who remain separated is actually much higher.

There's a second reason why this number is a moving target.

A Biden administration official said to me today: "Caitlin, we're still uncovering new separations and new horrors all the time."

So there are families who have come forward.

As part of the reunification process, they have applied for reunification and identified themselves as having been separated.

There was no record of the separation.

But the Biden administration was able to do a kind of forensic analysis of government records to ultimately determine, yes, this family was separated.

That's something that I focused on a lot in my reporting, is this often-nonexistent record keeping around family separations, and it's been corroborated again and again.

So that's why it's very difficult.

And, in fact, an administration official told me: "We will never get to the point where we have a total number of separated families, and, thus, nor will we ever get to a point where every single separated family has been reunited," which is a very stark and, of course, troubling reality.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, tell me more about that.

What does this reunification process entail?

CAITLIN DICKERSON: So, there are advocacy organizations on the ground, mostly in Central America, actively looking for separated parents.

They're both trying to track down parents who haven't yet been contacted by the government and also to find, again, families who were identified maybe in the early months following the end of family separations, but who the government has lost track of since.

Once those families are identified, these advocacy groups tell them about the process to apply for unification and walk them through that process, along with the IOM, which the Biden administration has hired to help with this work.

IOM is an organization that does lots of refugee resettlement work.

It's often a months-long process to actually go through from start to finish, apply, and then be brought back into the United States.

And that's when then behavioral health services are offered, and just the beginning of that bond, the reformation of that bond starts.

But it's just something that is going to go on for a very long time and perhaps even forever.

GEOFF BENNETT: Lastly, Caitlin, there seems to be little to no appetite within the Biden White House to hold Trump administration officials responsible for this policy, even though President Biden himself said that this practice was criminal, this practice of separating kids from their parents at the border.

CAITLIN DICKERSON: You're right.

We have not seen any concrete evidence that there is such an appetite.

It doesn't mean that one won't come down the road, but they're certainly not talking about it now.

And there are policies being developed internally in the White House to try to and -- and in the Department of Homeland Security -- to try to prevent future family separations.

But as we all saw under the Trump administration, if those policies are not codified into law or regulation, they can go away on day one of a subsequent administration.

And so they're not necessarily as durable as a legal change or a concrete accountability for the individuals who came up with and who carried out the family separations to begin with.

GEOFF BENNETT: Caitlin Dickerson, staff writer for "The Atlantic," thanks so much for sharing your reporting with us.

CAITLIN DICKERSON: Thank you, Geoff.

GEOFF BENNETT: The 65th annual Grammy Awards last night showcased a hip-hop tribute for the ages and featured some major high points in the music world from this past year.

But the top honors weren't what some expected.

Jeffrey Brown reports about ongoing questions about the process, as part of our arts and culture series, Canvas.

JEFFREY BROWN: The night began in Spanish with Puerto Rican superstar Bad Bunny and featured musical legends including Stevie Wonder, and today's biggest pop stars, including Lizzo, who won record of the year, and Harry Styles, who's "Harry's House" brought him album of the year.

In what many, including the winner, considered a surprise, 73-year-old Bonnie Raitt won song of the year for "Just Like That."

BONNIE RAITT, Musician: Thank you for honoring me to all the academy that surrounds me with so much support and appreciates the art of songwriting as I do.

JEFFREY BROWN: The award for pop duo group performance was won by Sam Smith and Kim Petras, who proudly noted being the first transgender woman to win the award.

KIM PETRAS, Musician: And I just want to thank all the incredible transgender legends before me who kicked these doors open for me, so I could be here tonight.

MAN: We celebrate happy 50th anniversary to hip-hop, baby.

JEFFREY BROWN: Another highlight, a 15-minute celebration of 50 years of hip-hop that brought several generations of stars to the stage, an acknowledgement of the impact and influence of a musical genre that has at times had a rocky relationship with the often tradition-bound Grammys.

And the queen of the night, Beyonce, of course, who made history with four more Grammys, becoming the all-time Grammy winner with 32 career awards.

But this too came with some caveats and criticism when her widely touted "Renaissance" album failed to win in any of the top categories.

And I'm joined now by Shamira Ibrahim.

She's a culture and music writer who contributes to a variety of media, including NPR, The New York Times, The Root, and The Cut.

Well, thank you so much for joining us.

I want to start with Beyonce, as we said, the most honored artist, and yet for many feeling like she hasn't really been honored as she should.

How do you explain that?

What do you see going on?

SHAMIRA IBRAHIM, Culture and Music Writer: Thank you so much for having me, Jeff.

I think that there are a variety of things happening in that conversation.

I think one of the big things is that Beyonce exists at the intersection of peak appeal and yet outside of the actual former -- formal structure, rather, of what is the usual promotional cycle that is expected within the recording academy.

So the Grammys is both an entertainment production, as well as a trade award show.

So, for the Grammys to really legitimize itself as what is known as music's biggest night, it needs to continuously engage the biggest artists, such as Drake, Beyonce, Jay-Z, and some of the biggest entertainers of the world, right?

And so to promote something like Beyonce breaking records, Beyonce getting feted as what is known as the biggest artist across not one, but arguably two generations is a conversation that continues to enmesh itself in the zeitgeist.

So, that is something that is one part of the conversation here.

JEFFREY BROWN: But not winning album of the year time after time.

And this has been a long-running question and issue for the Grammys, right, especially when it comes to Black women not winning the top award.

SHAMIRA IBRAHIM: Correct, Yes.

And part of that is due to the fact that Beyonce has expressed a desire to not really participate in the rigmarole that is expected of the academy.

One of the standards that exists and is expected is to do a full promotional cycle, an 18-month campaign, a 12-month campaign.

Beyonce has, at this point, become an institution, in and of herself.

And she does not need to participate in what is a run of press covers, going to all of the 12 chapters of the Grammy institution to go ahead and campaign and demand or really solicit the votes of her colleagues and peers, and really let the music situate itself as the cultural affection of change that it is.

And, really, that kind of presents a question of what the music is and what the Grammys wants to be as an institution.

And that is part of the conundrum that arises whenever she doesn't actually get the album of the year award, which is, is the award really for the music or is it participating in the actual expectation or intention of really doing the glad-handing that happens a lot of these trade shows?

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, there's also been, of course, the notable history regarding hip-hop, which last night, as we noted, got this sort of big nod with like a 50-year retrospective look, brought a lot of generations out there.

But hip-hop's a genre that has had its really fraught relationship with the Grammys too, right?

SHAMIRA IBRAHIM: Correct, yes.

And I think that's part of why there's a continued emphasis on the big four.

With genres like hip-hop and R&B, there's a continued elision of what genres and categories are allowed to be given front stage and the actual broadcast of the program itself, what performers are allowed to be showcased in the actual main broadcast.

And, over the years, categories like R&B have gone from eight nominating awards to four nominating awards.

And, as those shifts continue to kind of evolve over the years, the big four continue to showcase that that is the unequivocal positioning of what across the industry, across all of your peers really is the gold standard of music.

And that is part of why this evolves as a conversation as to where the Grammys wants to move to.

JEFFREY BROWN: All right, continuing year-by-year discussion.

Shamira Ibrahim, thank you very much.

SHAMIRA IBRAHIM: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Tonight, our Student Reporting Labs team brings us another edition of Moments of Truth, a series that delves into the spread of misinformation.

David Morrill of Portland, Oregon, was involved in online conspiracy theory communities, until a mental health crisis forced him to confront his beliefs.

He talked with his father about how he found his way back to reality.

DAVID MORRILL, Portland, Oregon: In the real world, I was falling behind.

In this digital fantasy, I was unlocking the secrets of the universe.

Hello.

I'm David Morrill.

I'm a 30-year-old graduate student, and we're here today to talk about how I slowly got drawn into conspiracy theories.

SCOTT MORRILL, Father of David Morrill: I'm Scott Morrill.

I'm David's dad.

I don't think, at first, I had any inkling that something was going on.

DAVID MORRILL: It all started with something called the Cicada 3301.

It's this online puzzle.

It starts with basic problem solving.

You would take, say, an anagram and arrange letters correctly to get a URL.

I got involved more deeply in communities that were trying to crack this.

I started going on Reddit specifically.

I realized I couldn't.

But there were other less well-known puzzles and challenges that people were directing my attention towards.

I got it up in my head that there was some shadow group running everything.

Maybe, if I solve these things, they'd let me in.

I'd be a member.

I never knew what the grand sacred truth was.

I was just going through a hero's journey of challenges and puzzles to try to get there maybe.

SCOTT MORRILL: Did you get more sort of desperate to crack the code, so to speak?

DAVID MORRILL: Yes.

Yes.

My relationship began failing darn near immediately after marriage, and my income was paltry, at best.

I wasn't sleeping.

I was taking drugs.

And I started getting really paranoid, as is a common side effect of marijuana.

I started frantically reaching out and trying to express my concerns to you.

SCOTT MORRILL: You were talking about stuff that your mother and I just -- we didn't get it.

At some point, there was a traumatic event that kind of brought this all to a head.

DAVID MORRILL: My imagination was running away from me.

So, I got in the shower and, for over a dozen hours, I refused to get out.

People were knocking, and I was terrified of them.

Just I knew that the water running over me was comforting, as I refused to move.

On hindsight, the doctors have labeled it a drug-induced psychosis, which means I lost touch with reality completely.

SCOTT MORRILL: It's an absolutely terrifying thing to see a loved one in that much distress and not know what you can do about it.

We called in some experts that knew how to deal with it and basically talked you down and helped you on a path to recovery.

You started working with some people in the health care industry that helped.

DAVID MORRILL: Yes.

I wish I could give more of a single moment where the not believing in conspiracies kind of emerged.

All I know is that, by your not being judgmental, by not telling me that it was all fake or that I was crazy, I was able to slowly climb back out because of your support.

Thank you.

SCOTT MORRILL: You made me cry.

Since then, stuff has taken a turn... DAVID MORRILL: Swiftly.

SCOTT MORRILL: ... for the better.

DAVID MORRILL: Yes.

Now I have gotten two bachelor's degrees, actually, and successfully defended my thesis just last month.

SCOTT MORRILL: Tell me a little bit about that.

DAVID MORRILL: I wanted to know what happened to me and also hopefully help others in the future.

I started focusing on conspiratorial ideation and persuasion online.

And I have got to be honest.

It's more invigorating going through the proper channels that it is making these aha breakthroughs in your basement.

(LAUGHTER) SCOTT MORRILL: Well, I hope that your mother and I were -- we weren't accusatory.

DAVID MORRILL: You were very supportive.

At the end of the day, I could have dismissed anybody except you guys.

You have made it abundantly clear throughout my whole life that you care, so I appreciate that.

SCOTT MORRILL: It would be impossible to overstate how much we care.

DAVID MORRILL: Sorry I lost my way for a bit.

GEOFF BENNETT: And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.

Be sure to join us tomorrow for our live coverage of President Biden's State of the Union address starting at 8:00 p.m. Eastern online and 9:00 p.m. Eastern on your local PBS station.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

Amna Nawaz is back tomorrow.

Thanks for spending part of your evening with us.