
Blinken face-to-face with Russian counterpart at G20 summit
Clip: 3/2/2023 | 10m 5sVideo has Closed Captions
Blinken face-to-face with Russian counterpart for first time since invasion of Ukraine
The world’s 20 wealthiest nations met in New Delhi for the G20 summit. But the gathering on global cooperation was largely overshadowed by bitter disagreement on the war in Ukraine and concluded with no consensus. Amna Nawaz discussed the meeting, and China's and India’s support for Russia, with Sumit Ganguly and Elizabeth Wishnick.
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Blinken face-to-face with Russian counterpart at G20 summit
Clip: 3/2/2023 | 10m 5sVideo has Closed Captions
The world’s 20 wealthiest nations met in New Delhi for the G20 summit. But the gathering on global cooperation was largely overshadowed by bitter disagreement on the war in Ukraine and concluded with no consensus. Amna Nawaz discussed the meeting, and China's and India’s support for Russia, with Sumit Ganguly and Elizabeth Wishnick.
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorshipAMNA NAWAZ: The world's 20 wealthiest nations met in New Delhi today for the G20 summit hosted by India and bringing together the U.S., Russia and China.
But the gathering on global cooperation was largely overshadowed by bitter disagreements on the war in Ukraine and concluded with no consensus.
For the first time since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Secretary of State Antony Blinken met face to face with his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, a 10-minute meeting on the sidelines of the G20.
Summit in New Delhi, Blinken urging Lavrov to end what he called a war of aggression.
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. Secretary of State: President Zelenskyy has put forward a 10-point plan for a just and durable peace.
President Putin, however, has demonstrated zero interest in engaging, saying there's nothing to even talk about.
AMNA NAWAZ: Lavrov blaming the West for prolonging the war.
SERGEY LAVROV, Russian Foreign Minister (through translator): While we are being called for talks, I don't remember Western colleagues urging Ukraine for talks, probably because Ukraine is being encouraged for a continuation of the war.
AMNA NAWAZ: Blinken and Lavrov last met in January of 2022, one month before Russia launched its war in Ukraine with global reverberations, a year later, growing worries over Beijing and Moscow's closer ties.
Blinken today threatened sanctions if China supplied weapons to Russia, saying the issue was raised with Chinese officials last month in Munich and with partners in New Delhi today ANTONY BLINKEN: I made clear that there would be consequences for engaging in those actions.
So I'm not going to detail what they would be.
But, of course, we have sanctions authorities of various kinds.
NARENDRA MODI, Indian Prime Minister: We are meeting at a time of deep global divisions.
AMNA NAWAZ: India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi said the fallout shouldn't disrupt global agreements on food, energy and debt.
NARENDRA MODI: We should not allow issues that we cannot resolve together to come in the way of those we can.
AMNA NAWAZ: Modi has stopped short of condemning Russia for its war, and India has continued to import discounted Russian oil throughout the conflict.
For more on today's G20 meeting and, in particular, China and India's support for Russia, we get two views.
Sumit Ganguly is a distinguished professor of political science at Indiana University, and Elizabeth Wishnick is a senior research scientist at the Center for Naval Analyses.
She's on leave from Montclair State University.
Welcome to you both and thanks for being here.
Sumit, I will begin with you and India's relationship with Russia.
Modi is attempting to be as neutral as possible, it seems.
Explain that to us.
Why would Modi not want to upset Putin?
SUMIT GANGULY, Indiana University-Bloomington: There are three compelling reasons why Modi is following this very delicate tightrope walk.
To begin with, anywhere between 60 to 75 percent of India's weaponry is either of Russian or Soviet origin.
And, consequently, India is acutely dependent on Russia for supplies of spare parts and a continuing pipeline of weaponry.
Secondly, India can ill afford to buy oil on the global market, given the price of oil, and the Russians are prepared add to sell oil at concessionary rates, which is easing inflation in India, when global inflation is affecting the Indian economy.
And, third, there is a degree of Cold War nostalgia that permeates the Indian political elite.
And, consequently, they are unwilling to totally abandon Russia and rebuke Russia for its actions in the Ukraine.
AMNA NAWAZ: Elizabeth, what about the Chinese view here?
When we last spoke a year ago, Russian troops were massing on the Ukrainian border.
Putin flew to Beijing to meet with President Xi.
You said then that you didn't believe a war in Ukraine was in China's interest.
So why does China stand with Russia today?
ELIZABETH WISHNICK, Center for Naval Analyses: Well, Russia is an important partner for China.
China just doesn't have another partner of Russia's stature, a U.N. Security Council member, a neighbor with which China shares a very lengthy border.
Like India, China also receives military technology from Russia, though, increasingly, China is producing its own.
And China has also been increasingly importing oil and gas from Russia and sees overland supplies of energy as more secure than risking seaborne supplies, where the U.S. could intervene.
AMNA NAWAZ: The oil component is huge.
I'd like to ask you both about that, because, over the last year, the U.S. and West have worked very hard to cut off Russia's oil revenue.
At the same time, China and India have ramped up their oil imports from Russia.
When you look at the numbers, those are China's numbers and red, India's numbers in yellow, in terms of oil imports from Russia.
China has hiked up their imports from 1.8 million barrels a day to 2.3 million.
India has increased from fewer than a million, 0.1 million barrels per day, up to 1.6 million barrels per day Sumit, this is arguably helping to fuel the war.
So what does India say?
How do they justify that increase in oil imports from Russia?
SUMIT GANGULY: They justify that increase on the grounds that this is easing India's economic burden, that, ultimately, India has to be concerned about 1.4 billion of its own population, and that India has meager other sources of obtaining oil at a reasonable price on in the global market.
And consequently, they sort of shrug their shoulders and say, the Western world also deals with any number of regimes which are not entirely savory, and who are they to hector us about who we are buying oil from, particularly at a time of dire need?
AMNA NAWAZ: Has that strained U.S.-India relations in any way?
SUMIT GANGULY: It has strained Indo-U.S. relations, but the U.S. has mostly expressed its discomfiture privately.
Publicly, Antony Blinken, President Biden have maintained mostly silence on this subject after, initially, when Blinken had raised the issue with his Indian counterpart, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar.
But Jaishankar basically rebuffed Blinken at the time.
And, subsequently, the U.S. has not publicly upgraded or rebuked India.
AMNA NAWAZ: Elizabeth, what about from the Chinese perspective?
How do they explain the increase in oil imports?
ELIZABETH WISHNICK: They have been increasing their imports from Russia steadily over time.
And prior to the war, they accounted for about 17 percent -- Russian oil accounted for 17 percent of Chinese imports.
And now it's about 20 percent.
So, for China, they see it as a matter of energy security, that Russia is a close supply of oil.
And this oil, some of it has been going to Chinese reserves.
I think China is concerned about supply chains, and wants to make sure it has enough reserves of oil.
AMNA NAWAZ: That purchase has certainly increased tensions between the U.S. and China, though.
Then we had the spy balloon incident, of course.
And now we have U.S. officials, warning Chinese officials against providing lethal support to Russia.
Would doing that in any way be in China's interests?
ELIZABETH WISHNICK: I think they know that this is a red line for the international community, as they're threatened with sanctions if they do this.
But, nonetheless, we have seen evidence of some companies trying to go under the radar and provide some parts for aircraft by falsifying records or claiming these are commercial aircraft.
And there was evidence of a small company, Xi'an Bingo Intelligent Aviation, that was in an agreement with a Chinese-state-owned defense company, China Poly Group, to provide prototypes for kamikaze drones.
So this is a delivery that was supposed to be by April.
And we don't know if it will take place.
So I think that some companies are trying to find ways of getting technology to their Russian counterparts.
They have been working together for a long time.
We don't know if this is a state-directed effort by China to aid Russia, though.
AMNA NAWAZ: Do you believe the threat of sanctions, as Secretary Blinken said today, would prevent China from acting in that way?
ELIZABETH WISHNICK: Well, we haven't seen any systematic effort by China to overtly provide military aid.
So I think the sanctions are a factor, but also the huge reputational costs, because China just issued a position paper where it claims to be impartial and aiming for peace.
And so this would certainly run counter to that message.
AMNA NAWAZ: We will certainly be following both of these nations very closely.
Sumit Ganguly and Elizabeth Wishnick, thank you both for joining us.
SUMIT GANGULY: Thank you.
ELIZABETH WISHNICK: Thank you.
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