>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO. "

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> Translator: TODAY WAS OLEKSANDR SYRSKYI AND ANDRE NATOV.

WE TALKED ABOUT FURTHER FORMS OF SERVICE AND THE TRANSFER OF AFFAIRS.

>> A MAJOR SHAKE-UP AMONG UKRAINE'S TOP PERSONNEL AS ZELENSKYY REPLACES HIS COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

I ASK TYMOFIY MYLOVANOV WHAT TO MAKE OF THESE MOVES.

> >> THEN, INDIA'S YOUTH-LED COCKROACH MOVEMENT IS TAKE ON MODI'S GOVERNMENT.

CORRESPONDENT IVAN WATSON TELLS US WHY.

> >> PLUS FOOD INSECURITY IN THE UNITED STATES AS REPUBLICANS SNAP BENEFIT CUTS TAKE A TOLL ON MILLIONS.

> >> ALSO AHEAD -- >> I THINK A LOT OF QUESTIONS NEED TO BE ASKED ABOUT WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES TO EXTREME HEAT, AND WHY DO WE NOT CARE THAT THEY ARE GONE.

>> HOW RECORD-BREAKING HEAT IS ENDANGERING WOMEN'S LIVES.

CEO OF NONPROFIT HERA KATHY BAUGHMAN McLEOD EXPLAINS TO HARI SREENIVASAN.

?

?

> >> "AMANPOUR & CO. "

IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT/E JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS/E CANDACE KING WEIR/E THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM/E THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION/E THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND/E CHARLES ROSENBLUM/E MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW/E KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES/E BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG/E AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

A MAJOR RESHUFFLE AMONG KYIV'S TOP MILITARY PERSONNEL.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS FIRED HIS COMMANDER IN CHIEF OLEKSANDR SYRSKYI, BOWING TO PRESSURE FROM NATIONWIDE PROTESTS SPARKED LAST WEEK BY THE CONTROVERSIAL SACKING OF POPULAR DEFENSE MINISTER MYKHAILO FEDOROV, CREDITED WITH LEADING UKRAINE'S SUCCESSFUL DRONE CAMPAIGN AGAINST RUSSIA.

NOW ZELENSKYY IS ALSO ATTEMPTING TO BRING HIM BACK FOR A, QUOTE, PROMINENT POSITION IN GOVERNMENT, THOUGH UKRAINIANS STILL WANT FEDOROV FULLY REINSTATED.

SYRSKYI, NICKNAMED THE BUTCHER, HAS FACED CRITICISMS FOR HIS HIGH TOLERANCE OF HUMAN CASUALTIES, AND REPLACING HIM IS A YOUNGER MIKHAIL DRAPATYI.

IT SHOWS GROWING INTERNAL RIFFS OVER THE NATION'S WARTIME LEADERSHIP.

SO WHAT IMPACT IS THIS TURMOIL HAVING AT HOME AND ON THE FRONT LINES?

TYMOFIY MYLOVANOV IS UKRAINE'S FORMER MINISTER OF ECONOMY, AND HE IS JOINING ME NOW FROM KYIV.

TIMOFIY, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

LET'S JUST START WITH THIS WEEK OF WHIPLASH THAT WE'VE SEEN.

ZELENSKYY DIDN'T TECHNICALLY FIRE, BUT HE DIDN'T REAPPOINT FEDOROV TO DEFENSE MINISTER JOB.

HE SIDE INSTEAD WITH HIS TOP GENERAL, SYRSKYI, AND THEN WITHIN A WEEK FIRED HIM AS WELL.

NOW DRAPATYI IS IN.

AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT DRAPATYI IN JUST A MOMENT, BUT WAS ALL OF THIS THE PRESIDENT RESPONDING TO THE PEOPLE OR WAS THIS A PRESIDENT WHO WAS NOT FULLY IN TUNE WITH WHERE HIS MILITARY WAS HEADED?

>> SO, YEAH, THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

I THINK IT'S MORE OF THE PUBLIC PRESSURE COMING ON TO THE PRESIDENT.

HOWEVER, WHEN HE IS SACKED OR DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, WHEN HE DISMISSED DEFENSE MINISTER FEDOROV LAST WEEK, HE HEDGED HIS BETS, AND HE SAID LISTEN, IN AN IDEAL WORLD, I WOULD ALSO HAVE TO DISMISS COMMANDER IN CHIEF SYRSKYI, BUT I COULDN'T DO IT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT WOULD DISRUPT THE MILITARY OPERATIONS.

AND THEN A WEEK LATER, AFTER PROTESTS STAYED AND ESCALATED, HE DID FIRE HIM.

>> SO THIS CRISIS AS WE KNOW ERUPTED AT A TIME WHEN MOMENTUM WAS REALLY IN UKRAINE'S FAVOR ON THE BATTLEFIELD IN TERMS OF THEIR LONGER-RANGE STRIKABILITY AND CAPABILITY WITHIN RUSSIA, THE FACT THAT FEDOROV WAS ABLE TO HAVE STARLINK READMITTED FOR UKRAINIAN USE, CUT OFF FOR RUSSIAN USE AS WELL.

AND PRESIDENT TRUMP, FOR THE LAST FEW WEEKS, AT LEAST, HAS BEEN QUITE --QUITE NOTABLY IMPRESSED BY WHAT PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS BEEN ABLE TO ACHIEVE.

SO WAS THIS AN UNFORCED ERROR IN FIRING FEDOROV, OF ALL TIMES, RIGHT NOW?

>> SO MAYBE IT'S MORE OF A POLITICAL ISSUE IN KYIV RATHER THAN MILITARY.

IT LOOKS LIKE UKRAINIAN WILL CONTINUE TO INNOVATE UNDER ANY COMMANDER, AND IN FACT, THIS DISRUPTION, THE POLITICAL DISRUPTIONS I THINK DO NOT HAVE AN IMMEDIATE EFFECT ON WHAT HAS HAPPENED ON THE BATTLEFIELD BOTH IN THE FRONT LINE AREAS AS WELL AS FOR DEEP STRIKES.

SO THE CAMPAIGNS CONTINUE.

RUSSIA IS ATTACKING US.

WE ARE ATTACKING RUSSIA.

SO IT'S MORE OF THE LONGER TERM DIFFERENCE OF VISIONS WHERE FEDOROV I THINK DECIDED TO KIND OF PLACE HIS BETS AND WENT OPEN INTO CONFLICT WITH SYRSKYI ABOUT THE FUTURE OF UKRAINIAN MILITARY.

AND ZELENSKYY, IN THE BEGINNING, SIDED WITH SYRSKYI, BUT THEN REVERSED HIS VIEW VERY QUICKLY.

>> BUT THIS REALLY CAME DOWN TO WHAT WAS AN UNTENABLE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE DEFENSE MINISTER AND THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

KNOW THEY WEREN'T SPEAKING MOST RECENTLY, A AND THEY COME FROM TWO DIFFERENT GENERATIONAL BACKGROUNDS.

FEDOROV IS 35 YEARS OLD.

SYRSKYI IS 60 YEARS OLD.

BUT MORE OF THEIR BACKGROUNDS.

SYRSKYI VERY MUCH SOVIET-STYLE MILITARY UPBRINGING, AND THEN WE'VE SEEN MUCH MORE INNOVATIVE, QUICK THINKING, NIMBLE CONTRIBUTIONS FROM FEDOROV SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO DRONE TECHNOLOGY.

JUST TALK ABOUT THAT DYNAMIC AND WHAT THAT HAS EXPOSED IN TERMS OF WHERE UKRAINE'S MILITARY IS RIGHT NOW.

>> BUT LET'S BE FAIR TO SYRSKYI.

SO HE WAS THE COMMANDER WHO DEFENDED KYIV DURING THE FIRST WEEKS OF THE WAR.

HE ACTUALLY RAN A VERY SUCCESSFUL DEFENSE CAMPAIGN WITH ALMOST NO RESOURCES, AND HE WAS ALSO VERY INNOVATIVE.

THE REALITY IS SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.

IT'S NOT SO BLACK AND WHITE.

YOU KNOW, I RECENTLY SPOKE ACTUALLY TWO DAYS AGO TO HIS --TO THE GENERAL CHIEF OF STAFF, NATOV, THE SECOND MAN IN COMMAND AFTER SYRSKYI.

AND THEY WERE TALKING.

HE TALKED TO ME AND TOLD ME STORIES ABOUT HOW THEY USED TECH VERY EARLY IN THE WAR, EVEN BEFORE MINISTER FEDOROV WAS IN ANY POSITION IN THE GOVERNMENT.

SO THE STORY IS MIXED.

BUT I THINK THERE IS REALLY A CULTURAL DIVIDE ABOUT WHAT IT TAKES TO LEAD THIS WAR.

AND THE MINISTER FEDOROV REPRESENTS ONE PART OF THIS DIVIDE, WHICH IS RESONATING WITH YOUNG PEOPLE, WITH ASYMMETRIC WARFARE, WITH TECHNOLOGY, WITH THE FUTURE, WITH SOME HOPE VERSUS GENERAL SYRSKYI REPRESENTS THE IDEA THAT WAR IS A TOUGH BUSINESS AND THERE ARE COSTS AND THERE ARE BRUTAL DECISIONS, AND YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES.

AND TECH IS IMPORTANT, BUT SO EVERYTHING ELSE IS IMPORTANT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE REALITY IS PROBABLY SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.

BUT THIS CAME TO A HEAD, YOU KNOW, THIS CONFLICT BETWEEN THEM.

>> NO DOUBT, THERE ARE MANY REPORTERS OF GENERAL SYRSKYI'S THROUGHOUT THIS WAR, NOW IN ITS FIFTH YEAR, ESPECIALLY IN ITS EARLY DAYS AND EARLY YEARS.

BUT NOW IT'S SORT OF BEEN A GRINDING WAR OF ATTRITION, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF CRITICISM THAT PERHAPS SYRSKYI VIEWED THE SOLDIERS AS BEING TOO EXPENDABLE.

AND ON THAT POINT, I'D LIKE TO PLAY AN INTERVIEW THAT CHRISTIANE HAD WITH GENERAL SYRSKYI RECENTLY.

I BELIEVE IT WAS JUST LAST YEAR, A RARE INTERVIEW IN WHICH HE TALKED ABOUT HIS CONTACT AND RELATIONSHIP WITH SOLDIERS ON THE FRONT LINES.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.

>> WE SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE.

WE UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER NO MATTER WHO I AM TALKING TO, WHETHER IT IS AN ORDINARY SOLDIER, A RIFLEMAN, FOR EXAMPLE, OR A BRIGADE COMMANDER OR A BATTALION COMMANDER.

YOU KNOW THAT I HAVE BEEN IN THIS WAR SINCE 2014, SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE FULL-SCALE AGGRESSION, I HAVE BEEN PARTICIPATING IN COMBAT OPERATIONS AS THE COMMANDER OF THE OPERATIONAL AND STRATEGIC GROUP.

NOW I AM THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE ARMED FORCES OF UKRAINE.

THAT IS THE FRONT LINE IS MY LIFE.

WE UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER.

I KNOW ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT OUR SERVICEMEN, SOLDIERS AND OFFICERS EXPERIENCE.

>> AND I SHOULD CORRECT MYSELF.

THAT WAS SEPTEMBER OF 2024.

HOW QUICKLY TIME FLIES.

I'M SURE THAT THAT'S NOT HOW IT FEELS IN UKRAINE BEING ON THE RECEIVING END OF THIS WAR NOW IN ITS FIFTH YEAR.

BUT HIS WORDS REALLY STAND OUT NOW, THE FACT THAT HE SAID THAT THE FRONT LINES IS MY LIFE.

AND YET IT WAS THEN SOLDIERS, IT WAS VETERANS, EVEN HIS OWN OFFICERS WHO HAVE CALLED FOR HIS REMOVAL.

SO HOW DID A COMMANDER WHO WAS SO STEEPED IN THE WAR IN THIS MENTALITY, IN WHAT THESE SOLDIERS ARE GOING THROUGH, HOW DID HE LOSE OUT ON HIS OWN RANKS?

>> YEAH, SO, YOU KNOW, THE RANKS ARE DIVIDED IN A SENSE.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THEM, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE AND ACTUALLY I SPOKE TO SOME OF THEM ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER SPEAKING TO GENERAL COMMANDER WHO ARE VERY CRITICAL, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE RANK AND FILE AND HAVE TO KEEP DISCIPLINE.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT THAT SOMETHING HAS CHANGED.

AND PARTLY, AT LEAST WHAT WE SEE IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, THERE HAVE BEEN RECENTLY CASES COMING UP IN INVESTIGATIONS COMING UP OF SOME ASSAULT UNITS WHO HAVE LOST A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND SOME OF THEM DUE TOE POOR DISCIPLINE AND MAYBE EVEN SOME ABUSE WITHIN INDIVIDUAL UNITS.

THAT HAS TO BE INVESTIGATED.

SO THERE IS SOME ACCOUNTABILITY, WHICH IS DESIRED BY SOCIETY.

I THINK A LOT OF THIS IS COMING FROM THE FACT THAT UKRAINE FEELS THAT IT IS A DEMOCRACY AND ITS WAR IS THAT PEOPLE WILL -- ARE NOT AS ACCOUNTABLE AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE.

SO THAT CONCEPT DEFINITELY HAS BEEN PRESENT AMONG THE PROTESTERS.

AND AMONG SOME MILITARY WHICH JOINED THE PROTESTS.

>> AND IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE HIS SUCCESSOR, HERE WE HAD SYRSKYI SAY IN THIS INTERVIEW WITH CHRISTIANE THAT HE'S BEEN IN THIS WAR SINCE 2014.

THAT IS A STATEMENT THAT HIS SUCCESSOR, MYKHAILO DRAPATYI.

IT WAS IN THAT WAR, I THINK 31 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME WHEN HE REALLY GAINED RECOGNITION.

PROTESTERS WERE DEMANDING THAT HE REPLACED SYRSKYI.

THEY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED HERE.

HE RESIGNED ABOUT A YEAR AGO AFTER A RUSSIAN STRIKE KILLED 12 SOLDIERS AT A TRAINING GROUND.

AND HE WAS SAYING COMMANDERS SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

NOW THAT HE IS IN THIS POSITION, DOES THIS CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THIS WAR FROM UKRAINE'S PERSPECTIVE IN HOW IT IS FOUGHT?

>> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE OPTIMISTIC.

YOU SEE YOU CONNECTED IMMEDIATELY WITH THIS ACCOUNTABILITY STORY.

IT IS TRUE THAT HE IS PERHAPS --DRAPATYI, THE NEW COMMANDER IN CHIEF, IS THE ONLY COMMANDER THAT I CAN THINK OF WHO OPENLY TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR SOMETHING HE WAS ACTUALLY NOT GUILTY OF.

BUT ACTED AS A PROPER LEADER.

AND NOW HE IS BACK.

SO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE EXCITED BY THIS AND HAVE HOPE THAT THE MILITARY WILL BE KIND OF RENEWED AND REFRESHED.

THERE IS AN UNDERLINE GOING THROUGH THIS THAT PEOPLE GET TIRED IN THE LEADERSHIP POSITIONS.

SO SOME RENEWAL IS NEEDED.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE ROTATION AT THE LEADERSHIP, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE NEW BLOOD COMING IN TO KEEP INNOVATING, TO KEEP NEW IDEAS, TO BASICALLY HAVE A LOT OF ENERGY AND HEALTH, FRANKLY, TO MOVE ON.

NO ONE TALKS ABOUT HOW EXHAUSTING, HOW DAMAGING IT IS TO BE IN LEADERSHIP POSITIONS FOR THIS MANY YEARS.

I THINK THAT CHANGE IS BENEFICIAL.

A YOUNGER PERSON, MORE ENERGY, WELL RESPECTED, AND SYRSKYI, WHILE VERY RESPECTED, COMING OUT, HAS TO RESIGN BECAUSE OF THIS CRISIS.

>> SO WHAT HAPPENS WITH FEDOROV NOW?

IT DOES SEEM THAT HE HAS A BIT MORE LEVERAGE.

PROTESTERS GOT HALF OF WHAT THEY WANTED.

DRAPATYI IS IN.

SYRSKYI IS OUT.

AND WHILE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS OFFERED SOME SORT OF GOVERNMENT POSITION FOR FEDOROV, REPORTS SUGGEST HE WILL ONLY TAKE BACK THE ROLE OF DEFENSE MINISTER.

DO YOU THINK THAT PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WILL DO THAT?

>> WELL, WE DON'T KNOW.

BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF IT ACTUALLY WERE TO HAPPEN.

BECAUSE A, THERE IS A PATTERN.

THE PATTERN IS THAT THE PRESSURE, SORT OF DEMOCRATIC PRESSURE IF YOU WISH, WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE THIS PROTEST RULE THE COUNTRY DURING THIS WAR, BUT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT --WHAT --WHAT CITIZENS OF UKRAINE WANT.

AND WHAT WE SEE IS THAT REACTION OF THE GOVERNMENT, BE IT THE PRESIDENT OR BE IT THE PRIME MINISTER OR ANYONE ELSE IS ACCELERATING OVER YEARS.

SO LAST YEAR, THIS SUMMER THERE WERE OTHER PROTESTS ABOUT ANTI- CORRUPTION POLICIES.

BUT IT TOOK SEVERAL MONTHS FOR THIS TO SETTLE DOWN VERSUS HERE WE SEE IT'S TAKEN DAYS AND WEEKS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK MINISTER FEDOROV WOULD LIKE TO ENSURE HE HAS SOME KIND OF FORMAL POSITION, FORMAL AUTHORITY, NOT CZAR POST WHICH IS BEING CIRCULATED IN THE NEWS WITH IS MOSTLY KIND OF ALMOST ADVISORY ROAR.

MINISTRY WAS ABOUT THE MINISTRY.

THAT'S WHAT THE RUMOR IS.

THAT'S WHAT SOME PEOPLE AROUND HIM ARE SAYING.

HE WANTS TO BE BACK INTO THE DEFENSE MINISTER POSITION.

AND I THINK THIS IS WHAT THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE ABOUT CURRENTLY.

>> YEAH, AND FEDOROV, ACCORDING TO SOME POLLS, HIS POPULARITY HAS JUMPED FROM 38% TO 50% IN THE PAST SIX MONTHS, WHILE ZELENSKYY'S HAS HELD FLAT.

A MAY POLL FOUND 67% OF UKRAINIANS EXPECT ZELENSKYY TO BE REPLACED AS PRESIDENT ONCE THIS WAR ENDS.

AND AN EDITORIAL IN THE KYIV INDEPENDENT PUT IT THIS WAY, "THE DECISION BEARS ALL THE HALLMARKS OF ZELENSKYY'S TENDENCY TO DISMISS TOP OFFICIALS AND COMMANDERS WHO GET TOO POPULAR AHEAD OF HYPOTHETICAL ELECTIONS THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IF RUSSIA OVERWHELMS UKRAINE. "

SO IS THAT A FAIR READ?

DID ZELENSKYY FIRE A RIVAL, NOT JUST A MINISTER HERE FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE?

>> WELL, ALMOST A FAIR READ.

NOT QUITE, BUT IT IS TRUE THAT THE POPULARITY DIDN'T HELP HIM TO STAY IN POWER TWO YEARS AGO WHEN HE WAS REMOVED AS THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF, VERY POPULAR.

AND THEN IT IS TRUE THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING AND THINKING THAT ALL OF THIS IS BASICALLY TO SUPPRESS THE POPULARITY OF, YOU KNOW, UP AND COMING POLITICAL STAR, DEFENSE MINISTER FEDOROV, WHICH IRONICALLY, HAS BACK FIRED.

AND IN FACT PROPELLED HIM TO THE POLITICAL SPOTLIGHT IMMEDIATELY DURING THIS TWO WEEKS, ALMOST INSTANTLY.

SO I THINK WE DO SEE A POLITICIAN IN THE MAKING WITH A VERY REASONABLE BID FOR A PRESIDENTIAL POSITION AFTER THE WAR IS OVER, OR CEASEFIRE IS THERE.

NOW HOW DID THE DYNAMICS BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM, BETWEEN PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AND MINISTER FEDOROV PLAY OUT IN THE NEXT WEEKS AND MONTHS REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

BUT I THINK THAT FRICTION WILL PROBABLY STAY THERE.

>> AND FINALLY, HOW IS RUSSIA, IN YOUR VIEW, READING THIS?

OBVIOUSLY PROPAGANDISTS WILL TRY TO EXPAND UPON THE FACT THAT THERE IS CHAOS HERE AND USE THAT TO THEIR ADVANTAGE AND HEAVY TURMOIL.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WITH SYRSKYI OUT AND NOT TO DISCREDIT ANY OF HIS ACHIEVEMENTS, BUT THE LATEST ACHIEVEMENTS AT LEAST HAVE COME FROM MORE OF THE DRONE TECHNOLOGY AND MORE OF THE FORWARD-THINKING INNOVATION THAT WE'VE SEEN FROM PEOPLE LIKE FEDOROV AND DRAPATYI.

SHOULD THEY BE WORRIED NOW ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT FEW MONTHS OF THIS WAR WILL BRING?

>> OH --OH, THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY WORRIED.

I THINK MINISTER FEDOROV HAS A VERY CLEAR VIEW OF HOW THE ATTACK COULD EVOLVE IN THE FUTURE AND NOW HOW CRIMEA CAN BE ISOLATED, LOGISTICAL PRESSURE COULD BE PUT IN THE NEAR REAR OF RUSSIA IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES AND FURTHER.

SO THAT IS A THREAT TO THEM.

THEY ARE DOWNPLAYING IT RIGHT NOW.

THEY WERE VERY HAPPY WHEN FEDOROV WAS DISMISSED.

NOW THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT WORRIED, ESPECIALLY WITH DRAPATYI COMING BACK.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY ARE NOT SAYING RIGHT NOW THAT UKRAINE IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

SO THAT NARRATIVE FOR NOW IS GONE.

SO I THINK WE'RE SEEING BOTH THAT UKRAINE IS A VIVID DEMOCRACY, EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE NO ELECTIONS NOW, AND WE'RE SEEING THAT PEOPLE WANT INNOVATION, PEOPLE WANT YOUNG GENERATION TO LEAD THE COUNTRY, AND PEOPLE ARE OPTIMISTIC ACTUALLY.

>> TYMOFIY MYLOVANOV, ALWAYS APPRECIATE THE TIME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

> >> WELL, WE TURN NOW TO INDIA, WHERE YOUTH-LED PROTESTS ARE ALSO HAVING AN IMPACT.

TRUE TO ITS NAME, THE COCKROACH MOVEMENT IS PROVING A NUISANCE TO THE GOVERNMENT.

DRIVEN BY ANGER OVER MASS YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT AND DEMANDS FOR EDUCATION REFORMS, TENS OF THOUSANDS HAVE FILLED NEW DELHI STREETS FOR DAYS.

AND DESPITE A BRUTAL POLICE CRACKDOWN EARLIER THIS WEEK WITH AT LEAST 60 PROTESTERS WOUNDED IN CENTRAL DELHI, MANY SAY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LEAVE UNTIL INDIA'S EDUCATION MINISTER RESIGNS.

CORRESPONDENT IVAN WATSON HAS MORE ON WHAT THIS UNIQUE MOMENT MEANS.

>> Reporter: THE INDIAN GOVERNMENT HAS A COCKROACH PROBLEM, A YOUTH PROTEST MOVEMENT THAT CALLS ITSELF THE COCKROACH JANTA PARTY.

ON MONDAY, THOUSANDS OF THESE DEMONSTRATORS DESCEND ON NEW DELHI, A RARE MASS PROTEST IN THE HEART OF INDIA'S CAPITAL, DEFYING A POLICE BAN.

POLICE FIRING TEAR GAS TO STOP THE PROTESTERS FROM MARCHING TO THE INDIAN PARLIAMENT.

>> I HOPE THEY LISTEN TO US, BECAUSE IF NOT NOW THEN I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A DEMOCRACY OR LIKE A DICTATORSHIP.

>> WE'VE HAD BAD GOVERNMENTS, BUT WE'VE NEVER HAD SUCH AN EVIL GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE THIS GOVERNMENT IS ONLY INTERESTED IN POWER, FAME, AND MONEY.

THEY'RE GENUINELY NONBIOLOGICAL.

THEY DON'T HAVE A SHRED OF DECENCY IN THEM.

>> Reporter: THE COCKROACH PARTY BEGAN BARELY TWO MONTHS AGO WITH THIS SOCIAL MEDIA POST FROM ABHIJEET DIPKE, GRADUATE STUDENT FROM BOSTON UNIVERSITY.

A TOP JUDGE APPEARED TO CALL INDIA'S UNEMPLOYED YOUTH COCKROACHES.

DIPKE LAUNCHED THE COCKROACH PARTY, DEMANDING REFORM OF THE COUNTRY'S SCANDAL-PRONE EDUCATION SYSTEM AND THE FIRING OF THE EDUCATION MINISTER.

THAT OFFICIAL HAS SINCE CALLED THE COCKROACH PARTY TERRORISTS.

LAST MONTH, THE COCKROACH PARTY BEGAN A SMALL SIT-IN PROTEST IN DOWNTOWN DELHI.

IT WAS JOINED BY ACTIVIST AND EDUCATOR SONAMWONCHUK WHO WENT ON HUNGER STRIKE.

ON SATURDAY POLICE FORCIBLY REMOVED HIM FROM THE PROTEST, TAKING HIM TO A HOSPITAL.

SINCE THEN, A MOVEMENT THAT HAD EXISTED MOSTLY ONLINE SUDDENLY BURST ON TO THE STREETS OF INDIAN CITIES.

ON MONDAY, INDIA'S HEALTH MINISTER MET FACE-TO-FACE WITH COCKROACH PARTY REPRESENTATIVES, ASKING THEM TO END THEIR SIT-IN.

BUT THEY'RE STILL CALLING FOR THE RESIGNATION OF THE EDUCATION MINISTER, A RARE SHOW OF DEFIANCE THAT'S PUT THE GOVERNMENT OF PRIME MINISTER NARENDRA MODI ON THE DEFENSIVE.

>> NOW TIME AND TIME AGAIN, WE'RE TOLD THE U. S. ECONOMY IS STRONG.

DESPITE THAT, NATIONWIDE FOOD INSECURITY HASN'T BEEN THIS BAD SINCE THE HEIGHT OF COVID.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO ANALYSIS FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF NEW YORK, WHICH SAYS LOWER EDUCATED AND LOWER INCOME HOUSEHOLDS AND HOUSEHOLDS WITH YOUNG CHILDREN ARE THE WORST HIT.

THIS COMES AMID RISING INFLATION AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S CUTS TO FOOD ASSISTANCE FROM THE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS S. N. A. P. THE PROBLEM IS PRONOUNCED IN THE NATION'S CAPITAL, SO LET'S BRING IN LaMONICA JONES, DIRECTOR OF D. C. HUNGER SOLUTIONS, WHO JOINS US FROM WASHINGTON.

LaMONIKA, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE WOULD THINK OF WASHINGTON, D. C. AND THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO THEIR MINDS IS POWER, WEALTH, INFLUENCE.

AND HERE YOU ARE, YOU ARE SERVING 132,000 S. N. A. P. RECIPIENTS THERE, 48,000 OF THEM ARE CHILDREN.

WHAT DOES FOOD INSECURITY LOOK LIKE IN THE NATION'S CAPITAL?

>> YEAH, GOOD AFTERNOON.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

FOOD INSECURITY IS ONE OF THE MOST PRESSING ISSUES ACROSS OUR ENTIRE NATION, AS WELL AS HERE IN THE NATION CAPITAL.

AS YOU STATED, WE HAVE OVER 132,000 HOUSEHOLDS THAT ARE EXPERIENCING HUNGER, AND THAT INCLUDES 48,000 CHILDREN UNDERNEATH THE AGE OF 18.

IT ALSO INCLUDES INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE JUST OUTSIDE THE ELIGIBILITY FOR S. N. A. P. , BUT ARE STILL EXPERIENCING A HUNGER AND FOOD INSECURITY THROUGHOUT THE DISTRICT.

>> AND FOR 30 YEARS, D. C. HAD A WAIVER FROM S. N. A. P. WORK REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE OF ITS UNEMPLOYMENT LEVELS.

THAT WAIVER OFFICIALLY ENDED DECEMBER 31st UNDER HR-1.

SO WHAT HAS CHANGED FOR FAMILIES SINCE JUNE 1st?

>> SO THERE HAS BEEN SEVERAL THINGS THAT HAVE CHANGED SINCE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF HR-1, OR ONE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL.

WE HAVE SEEN HOUSEHOLDS THAT ARE NOW GOING TO BE REQUIRED TO COMPLETE THOSE WORK REQUIREMENTS, EXECUTE THOSE WORK REQUIREMENTS HERE IN THE DISTRICT.

WE'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT 17,000 NEWLY DEEMED ABLE- BODIED ADULTS WITHOUT DEPENDENTS.

WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR S. N. A. P. CLIENTS ARE ALREADY WORKING, BUT AS A RESULT OF THE REINSTATEMENT OF THE WORK REQUIREMENTS, THERE ARE MORE HOUSEHOLDS THAT ARE SUBJECT TO PROVING THAT THEY'RE WORKING AS WELL AS PROVIDING ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN ELIGIBILITY FOR S. N. A. P.

>> SO AGRICULTURAL SECRETARY ROLLINS HAS SAID STATES HAVE ABUSED THESE WAIVERS FOR YEARS, AND THAT D. C. KEPT ITS WAIVER FOR THREE DECADES, EVEN THROUGH PERIODS OF LOW UNEMPLOYMENT.

WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT CLAIM?

>> I THINK, NUMBER ONE, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT, AS I STATED EARLIER, THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR S. N. A. P. CLIENTS ARE ALREADY WORKING.

THE SECOND POINT TO NOTE IS IN ORDER FOR A STATE TO BE APPROVED FOR A WAIVER, THERE IS A PROCESS THEY MUST GO THROUGH.

THEY MUST PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION, JUSTIFICATION, ALONG WITH THE APPROVAL OF USDA TO IMPLEMENT THAT WAIVER.

SO STATES ARE NOT ARBITRARILY APPROVING WAIVERS OR OPERATING IN THESE WAIVERS.

THIS COMES WITH CHECKS FROM USDA TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING WHAT THEY ARE EXPERIENCING WITHIN THEIR STATE, AND THAT IT'S NOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO CIRCUMVENT THE PROGRAM REGULATIONS, OR GUIDANCE.

>> AND YOU MENTIONED STATES.

COME OCTOBER 1st, IT'S NOW STATES, IT'S INCUMBENT ON THE STATES TO COVER 75% OF S. N. A. P.

'S ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.

THAT'S UP FROM HALF BEFORE.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT CONCERNS ABOUT CERTAIN STATES THAT MAY OR MAY NOT ACTUALLY LIVE UP TO THOSE REQUIREMENTS?

>> WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE IS THAT WITH THE INCREASED ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, STATES ARE HAVING TO DETERMINE HOW IS IT THAT WE CAN ENSURE THAT WE CAN MAINTAIN AND CONTINUE TO ADMINISTER SNAP WHILE HAVING TO OPERATE OTHER PROGRAMS, OTHER HUMAN NEED SERVICES PROGRAMS SUCH AS CHILD CARE, OUR SCHOOLS, OUR HEALTH CARE COSTS.

AND IT'S REALLY CHALLENGING.

WE'RE HEARING FROM SOME OF OUR STATE LEADERS THAT WHILE THEY'RE BALANCING OUR BUDGET, AND ALL OF THE STATES HAVE TO HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET, HOW DO WE NAVIGATE THIS IN ADDITIONAL ADMINISTRATIVE COST SHIFT WHILE HAVING TO ENSURE THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE FAMILIES RECEIVE ACCESS TO CRITICAL NUTRITION SUPPORT.

>> AND YOU WORK DIRECTLY WITH S. N. A. P. CLIENTS.

HOW ARE THEY NAVIGATING THESE NEW CHANGES AND CHANGES TO THE RULES?

GIVE US SOME PERSPECTIVE FROM THEIR STANDPOINT.

>> YEAH.

WE WORK WITH FAMILIES EVERY SINGLE DAY ALL THROUGHOUT THE DISTRICT, AND SOME OUTSIDE OF THE DISTRICT IN MARYLAND.

AND WE'RE HEARING FROM FAMILIES, A LOT OF FEAR, A LOT OF CONCERN.

MANY OF OUR FAMILIES ARE NAVIGATING ALREADY TIGHT BUDGETS, HOUSEHOLD BUDGETS, AND THEY'RE HAVING TO DETERMINE HOW IS IT THAT WE CAN AFFORD CHILD CARE, HEALTH CARE COSTS, AND NOW CONTINUE TO REMAIN ELIGIBLE FOR SNAP, ALL WHILE HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT PROVIDING PROOF THAT WE'RE FOLLOWING THESE WORK REQUIREMENTS.

SO THEY'RE CONCERNED.

HOW DO WE NAVIGATE THESE MULTIPLE DYNAMICS WITHIN OUR HOUSEHOLD.

WE HAVE EXPERIENCED AND HEARD FROM HOUSEHOLDS THAT HAVE LOST ELIGIBILITY, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE REQUIREMENTS.

SO FAMILIES ARE CONCERNED, AND THEY'RE SCARED.

>> AND WHAT ARE THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF THAT?

BECAUSE WE THROW OUT FIGURES.

WE THROW OUT STATISTICS.

48,000 CHILDREN.

WHAT DOES THIS DO FOR CHILDREN NOT JUST FOR TODAY, BUT FOR THEIR FUTURES?

>> YEAH, I KNOW WE'RE IN SUMMER VACATION, AND WE'RE PREPARING FOR BACK TO SCHOOL, BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OUR CHILD NUTRITION PROGRAMS, NAMELY SCHOOL MEALS, SUN BUCKS AS WELL, WE'RE --WITH THE LOSS OF S. N. A. P. , WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN THAT WILL SHOW UP TO SCHOOL ONCE THE SCHOOL YEAR BEGINS ON AN EMPTY BELLY THAT WILL INCREASE THE NEED FOR SCHOOLS TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE FUNDING AND THE SUPPORT TO OPERATE SCHOOL BREAKFAST PROGRAM, OUR SCHOOL LUNCH PROGRAM.

IT WILL ALSO IMPACT THE NUMBER --THE AMOUNT OF PAPERWORK THAT PARENTS HAVE TO COMPLETE TO ENSURE THAT THEIR STUDENTS ARE CONTINUING TO RECEIVE FREE AND REDUCED PRICE MEALS.

AND IF PARENTS DO NOT SUBMIT THAT PAPERWORK, THAT'S GOING POTENTIALLY BE A LOSS FOR THE HIGHER --THE PRICE REIMBURSEMENT RATE THAT OUR SCHOOLS WILL RECEIVE THAT THEY NEED IN ORDER TO OPERATE OUR SCHOOL MEALS PROGRAMS.

YOUR ORGANIZATION ESTIMATES 9,000 TO 13,000 D. C. HOUSEHOLDS COULD LOSE BENEFITS UNDER THESE NEW WORK REQUIREMENTS.

AND YOU HAVE CALLED IT A HUNGER CLIFF.

WE DON'T HEAR THAT TERM HERE IN THE UNITED STATES VERY OFTEN, IF EVER.

WHAT IS A HUNGER CLIFF ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE?

>> WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IS THAT OUR HOUSEHOLDS THAT ARE PUSHED FURTHER INTO FOOD INSECURITY, WE KNOW THAT THE USDA 2024 HOUSEHOLD FOOD INSECURITY REPORT SHOWED US THAT 10.

3% OF HOUSEHOLDS IN THE DISTRICT WERE EXPERIENCING FOOD INSECURITY.

THIS IS AN INCREASE FROM THE LAST TIME THE REPORT WAS PUBLISHED THAT SHOWED RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE PANDEMIC, WE HOUSEHOLD DISTRICT WERE EXPERIENCING 8.

8% OF HOUSEHOLDS WERE EXPERIENCING FOOD INSECURITY.

WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS MORE HOUSES ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE WITH HOW THEY'RE GOING TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO FEED THEIR FAMILIES.

AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO RISE AND CONTINUE TO INCREASE.

>> AND THERE'S AN INTERESTING RIPPLE EFFECT HERE.

WE TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT THIS HAS ON CHILDREN, ON EDUCATION, ON THE TAXPAYER DOWN THE ROAD WHEN THERE IS FOOD INSECURITY.

BUT EVERY S. N. A. P. DOLLAR GENERATES NEARLY $2 IN LOCAL ACTIVITY AS WELL, $450 MILLION A YEAR IN D. C. ALONE.

WHAT HAPPENS TO NEIGHBORHOOD GROCERY STORES WHERE A NUMBER OF THESE S. N. A. P. RECIPIENTS SHOP FOR FOOD?

>> SO WHAT OUR S. N. A. P. , AS YOU STATED, FOR EVERY $1 IN S. N. A. P. THAT GENERATES CLOSE TO $1.

80 IN ECONOMIC IN ALL OF OUR STATES, BUT ALSO HERE IN THE DISTRICT.

AS HOUSEHOLDS BEGIN TO LOSE S. N. A. P. , THAT MEANS OUR LOCAL RETAILERS, OUR SMALLER, INDEPENDENT STORES WILL ALSO LOSE THAT ABILITY TO OFFSET THEIR LABOR COSTS, THE COSTS TO PURCHASE FOOD ITEMS.

AND THEY RUN THE RISK OF HAVING TO CLOSE THEIR DOORS.

AND SO THAT WILL THEN HAVE AN IMPACT ON OUR CHARITABLE FOOD AGENCIES AND ORGANIZATIONS WHERE THERE WILL BE AN INCREASED NEED FOR THEM TO PROVIDE THE FILL IN THE GAP AND FILL IN THE HOLE WHERE S. N. A. P. IS NOT AVAILABLE.

AND WE KNOW THAT FOR EVERY ONE MEAL THAT A FOOD BANK PROVIDES, THAT'S NINE MEALS THAT S. N. A. P. WILL PROVIDE.

SO OUR CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS ARE UNABLE TO KEEP UP WITH THE NEED THAT S. N. A. P. IS ABLE TO PROVIDE.

SO, AGAIN, WE'LL EXPERIENCE THAT HUNGER CLIFF HERE IN THE DISTRICT.

>> WERE THERE ANY LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE PANDEMIC THAT COULD PERHAPS AT LEAST BE A BRIDGE FOR ORGANIZATION LIKE YOURS TO HELP SOME OF THESE FAMILIES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I WILL SAY ONE OF THE GREATEST LESSONS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO SEE HERE LOCALLY FROM THE DISTRICT WAS ALL OF OUR COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS COMING TOGETHER COLLECTIVELY, WORKING WITH DISTRICT LEADERSHIP TO ENSURE THAT OUR LOCAL PROGRAMS WERE SUPPORTED.

WE HAD SEVERAL DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS THAT STEPPED UP AND SERVED AS EMERGENCY FOOD PROVIDERS, AND THEY CONTINUE TO SERVE TO ENSURE THAT OUR FAMILIES AND OUR HOUSEHOLDS, ESPECIALLY OUR MOST VULNERABLE HOUSEHOLDS, OUR OLDER ADULTS, OUR VETERANS, OUR HOUSES WITH CHILDREN, THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHERE THEIR NEXT MEAL COMES FROM SO WE CAN CONTINUE TO ERADICATE HUNGER ACROSS THE DISTRICT.

>> HOW MUCH CONCERN DO YOU HAVE ABOUT PROVIDING NUTRITIOUS FOODS NOW FOR FAMILIES THAT ARE APPROACHING, AS YOU NOTE, A HUNGER CLIFF?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S CRITICAL.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK ABOUT EVERY DAY.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT.

WE HEAR FROM FAMILIES, WE HEAR FROM OUR COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS, OUR PARTNERS, OUR LEADERS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT BECAUSE FOOD IS A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.

HUNGER DOESN'T HAVE A FACE.

IT DOESN'T HAVE A DEMOGRAPHIC.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DETERMINE HOW THEY BEST PROVIDE FOOD FOR THEIR FAMILY.

IT SHOULDN'T BE SOMETHING THAT WE ARGUE OR THAT WE DEBATE ABOUT, BUT IT'S A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT THAT WE SHOULD ALL ACCESS.

>> HAVE YOU SEEN A DIRECT CORRELATION OR IMPACT ON FEDERAL WORKERS?

WE KNOW THOUSAND OF THEM WERE LAID OFF DURING THE DOGE CUTS.

ARE THEY FAMILIES THAT YOU ARE NOW WORKING WITH?

>> YES.

WE ACTUALLY HAD A FAMILY FOR THE FIRST TIME.

IT WAS A NEW MOM.

SHE WAS AN EMPLOYEE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND SHE WAS FURLOUGHED.

AND ULTIMATELY, SHE ENDED UP LOSING HER JOB.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, AS A NEW MOM, SHE WAS TRYING TO NAVIGATE WICK AND S. N. A. P. FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME, AND SHE HAD NEVER BEEN ELIGIBLE PRIOR TO THAT.

AND SHE REACHED OUT TO US, VERY CONCERNED.

SHE WAS CRYING BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HER NEXT STEP WAS GOING TO BE.

BUT FORTUNATELY, WE WERE ABLE TO ASSIST HER, AND WE WERE ABLE TO SIGN HER UP FOR S. N. A. P. AND SHE WAS ABLE TO RECEIVE THOSE WIC BENEFITS.

BUT SHE IS NOT THE ONLY FAMILY WE HEAR FROM.

WE HEAR FROM FAMILIES DAILY THAT ARE NAVIGATING FOOD INSECURITY AND HUNGER FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME.

>> AND YOU MENTIONED AT THE TOP OF THE INTERVIEW, SOME OF THE STEPS YOU TAKE TO AVOID WASTE, FRAUD, ABUSE, THOSE THAT ARE TRYING TO GAME THE SYSTEM.

THE ADMINISTRATION I WOULD IMAGINE, THEIR RESPONSE TO THIS WOULD BE THAT THIS ISN'T A CUT, THAT TRAINING, VOLUNTEERING, EVEN LOOKING FOR WORK ALL COUNTS TOWARDS THE 80 HOURS, AND CAREGIVERS AND PEOPLE WITH HEALTH CONDITIONS AND PARENTS WHO ARE TAKING CARE OF YOUNG CHILDREN ARE EXEMPT.

WHAT WOULD YOUR RESPONSE BE TO THAT?

>> AGAIN, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR S. N. A. P. PARTICIPANTS ARE WORKING.

THEY ARE MEETING THE WORK REQUIREMENTS.

THEY ARE DOING WHAT IT IS THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN ELIGIBILITY.

BUT THE REALITY IS THE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN ELIGIBILITY EQUATE TO A CUT.

WE'VE SEEN ABOUT 5.

8 MILLION HOUSEHOLDS LOSE ACCESS TO S. N. A. P. ACROSS THE NATION.

THAT INCLUDES A 6 TO 7% DIP IN PARTICIPATION HERE ACROSS THE DISTRICT.

AND SO IT IS -- IT IS AN EXTREME CHALLENGE THAT WE'RE SEEING AND THAT WE'RE TRYING TO NAVIGATE.

BUT FAMILIES ARE DOING EVERYTHING THAT THEY CAN, BUT IT'S PLAINLY CUT -- IT'S PLAINLY SEEN THAT THESE CUTS ARE HARMFUL AND THEY'RE DETRIMENTAL TO FAMILIES.

>> HOW MUCH OF A CONCERN IS INFLATION AND THE RISING PRICES THAT WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, EVEN PREDATING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR THESE FAMILIES?

>> THE INFLATION AND THE RISING COSTS THAT WE'VE SEEN, THE SURGES ARE JUST ADDITIONAL FACTORS THAT ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE HUNGER CLIFF THAT WE'LL SEE IN OUR FAMILIES.

EVEN BEFORE THE RETURN TO WORK REQUIREMENTS OR THE CHANGES THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY SEEING WITH S. N. A. P. , FAMILIES WERE HAVING TO NAVIGATE SUPPLY CHAIN CHALLENGES, HIGHER GROCERY FOOD COSTS AS WELL AS HIGHER COSTS FOR CHILD CARE, HIGHER COSTS FOR HOUSING.

AND SO WHEN YOU COUPLE ALL OF THAT TOGETHER, WE'RE SEEING THE COST OF LIVING TO SIMPLY EXIST AND TO LIVE HERE IN OUR NATION IS CHALLENGING, AND IT JUST EXACERBATES THE ISSUES THAT OUR FAMILIES, ESPECIALLY OUR FAMILIES THAT ARE EXPERIENCING LOW INCOME FOOD INSECURITY ARE HAVING TO NAVIGATE ON A DAILY BASIS.

>> SO WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE FOR FAMILIES THAT ARE SCARED, CONFUSED ABOUT WHETHER THEY STILL QUALIFY FOR S. N. A. P. BENEFITS?

WHAT SHOULD THEY BE DOING?

>> WELL, I WILL -- MY REMINDER TO FAMILIES IS THAT ORGANIZATIONS LIKE D. C. HUNGER SOLUTIONS, MARYLAND HUNGER SOLUTIONS, AS WELL AS SEVERAL ADVOCATE PARTNERS THAT WE HAVE ACROSS THE ENTIRE NATION, THAT WE'RE HERE TO SUPPORT OUR FAMILIES, THAT WE'RE HERE TO ASK QUESTIONS, THAT IF THEY HAVE A NEED, WE'LL DO EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN.

BUT ALSO FOR OUR COMMUNITY-BASED FOOD DISTRIBUTION ORGANIZATIONS, THAT THEY ARE STILL HERE.

WE'RE STILL SERVING OUR RESIDENTS ACROSS OUR RESPECTIVE JURISDICTIONS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING A LIGHT ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT SUBJECT MATTER AND FOR EVERYTHING THAT YOU AND YOUR ORGANIZATION DO.

LaMONICA JONES, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

> >> NOW WITH HEATWAVES SHATTERING RECORDS THIS YEAR, ONE THING IS CLEAR, THE PLANET IS GETTING HOTTER.

BUT OUR NEXT GUEST ARGUES THAT WE DON'T ALL FEEL THE HEAT EQUALLY.

KATHY BAUGHMAN McLEOD RUN ANSWER NGO CALLED HERA.

AND SHE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THEIR WORK PROTECTING WOMEN IN LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES FROM EXTREME HEAT.

>> BIANNA, THANKS.

KATHY BAUGHMAN McLEOD, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOININGS.

THIS HAS BEEN AN EXCEPTIONALLY HOT SUMMER.

MOST PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES, ACROSS THE EASTERN SEABOARD CERTAINLY HAVE FELT THAT.

BUT IN EUROPE, IT'S BEEN MUCH MORE ACUTE.

THERE ARE RESEARCHERS THAT ESTIMATE THAT THERE WERE IN EXCESS OF 14,000 DEATHS ACROSS THE SIX HARDEST HIT COUNTRIES IN EUROPE, AND THAT'S JUST THIS HEATWAVE FROM JUNE, JULY THIS YEAR.

YOU'VE CALLED THIS A MASS CASUALTY EVENT.

AND YET WE'RE NOT REALLY PAYING ATTENTION TO IT.

>> THOSE NUMBERS ARE STAGGERING, AND YET WE DON'T QUITE HAVE OUR ARMS AROUND IT.

AND WE DON'T HAVE THE SENSE OF ALARM AND ACTION THAT'S NECESSARY TO SAVE LIVES.

AND I THINK A LOT OF QUESTIONS NEED TO BE ASKED ABOUT WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES TO EXTREME HEAT, AND WHY DO WE NOT CARE MORE THAT THEY ARE GONE, AND WHAT CAN WE DO TO PREVENT MORE PEOPLE FROM DYING FROM EXTREME HEAT.

>> SO WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE TO MAKE THESE NUMBERS GO UP?

>> SO THAT NUMBER YOU REFERENCED IS CALLED ALL CAUSE MORTALITY.

SO THE BEST WAY WE HAVE TO MEASURE WHO HAS DIED FROM HEAT IS TO SEE AN INCREASE IN THAT NUMBER WHEN THE WEATHER IS PARTICULARLY HOT, WHEN THE CONDITIONS ARE REALLY HOT.

SO THAT EXCESS DEATH WE ACCOUNT FOR IF WE HAD LET'S SAY FOYER HUNDRED PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF X DIE EVERY DAY, AND THEN DURING THESE HEAT EVENTS, LET'S SAY ONE IN PARTICULAR OVER TWO OR THREE DAYS YOU HAD 600 PEOPLE DIE PER DAY, YOU WOULD ACCOUNT FOR THOSE DEATHS AS EXTREME HEAT.

WE'RE NOT SOPHISTICATED YET ENOUGH TO SAY EXACTLY THESE PEOPLE DIED FROM HEAT.

AND PART OF THAT IS THAT THE MEDICAL AND HEALTH SYSTEMS AREN'T LOOKING FOR IT, AND THERE'S NOT A STANDARD TRAINING THAT SAYS IS THIS A HEAT-RELATED DEATH, COULD THIS HEART ATTACK -- AND WE KNOW THE HEART WORKS REALLY HARD DURING EXTREME HEAT, COULD THIS HEART ATTACK BE HEAT-ADRENALINE.

WHAT ABOUT RENAL FAILURE?

THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS DRIVEN BY THIS.

AND MEDICATIONS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, CONTRAINDICATED FOR HEAT.

SO WE'VE GOT TO GET OUR HEAT LITERACY UP ACROSS ALL OF OUR SYSTEMS, ESPECIALLY IN THE HEALTH SYSTEM.

>> SO WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT HEAT AND HOW IT AFFECTS THE HUMAN BODY?

DOES IT BREAK DOWN DIFFERENTLY ACROSS GENDERS?

DOES IT BREAK DOWN DIFFERENTLY ACROSS CLASS AND ACCESS TO CAPITAL OR POVERTY?

>> YES AND YES, YES AND YES.

SO GENDER WISE, WOMEN ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY PHYSIOLOGICALLY IMPACTED BY HEAT.

THAT'S BECAUSE OUR SWEAT RATES ARE LOWER.

THAT'S BECAUSE OUR THERMOREGULATION IS AFFECTED BY HORMONAL FLUCTUATIONS, PREGNANCY, MENOPAUSE.

AND SOCIO-ECONOMICALLY, POVERTY IS A HUGE DRIVER OF HIGHER IMPACTS OF HEAT.

COSTS THROUGH LOSS OF INCOME IN THE INFORMAL SECTORS, 60% OF WORKERS IN THE INFORMAL SECTOR ARE WOMEN, AND WE ARE SEEING MENTAL HEALTH EFFECTS FROM HEAT.

AND THERE IS A RISE IN GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE.

PEOPLE GET ANGRY AND FRUSTRATED.

AND SO IT SHOWS UP IN HIGHER CRIME RATES.

IT SHOWS UP IN DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND HARM TO WOMEN AND KIDS.

IT'S SHOWING UP AS MORE VISITS TO THE HOSPITAL.

IT'S SHOWING UP AS MISCARRIAGE, PRETERM BIRTH, AND STILLBORN BABIES.

IT'S GOT IMMENSE IMPACTS, AND IT DOES NOT AFFECT PEOPLE EQUALLY.

AND PEOPLE WORKING OUTSIDE, PEOPLE WITHOUT LIKE INFORMALITY, PEOPLE WORKING WITHOUT LAWS THAT PROTECT THEM AND THEIR HEALTH FROM THE HEAT, PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSTRUCTION WORKER, LAW ENFORCEMENT, PEOPLE OUTSIDE WHO ARE OR ARE IN PARTIALLY COOLED SPACES, WAREHOUSES OR DISTRIBUTION OR FULFILLMENT CENTERS, FARM WORKERS, IMMENSE DISPROPORTION OF EXPOSURE AND VULNERABILITY TO HEAT DRIVEN BY POVERTY AND BY SOCIO- ECONOMIC FACTORS.

>> YOU FOUNDED AN ORGANIZATION CALLED HERA, HEAT RESILIENCE ACTION.

I WONDER, YOU FOCUS SPECIFICALLY TO TRY TO PROTECT WOMEN FROM EXTREME HEAT.

YOU ALSO INCREASE HEAT LITERACY ACROSS THE BOARD.

BUT WHY SPECIFICALLY FOCUS AROUND WOMEN?

>> WOMEN PUT 90% OF WHAT THEY MAKE BACK INTO THEIR COMMUNITY AND INTO THE ECONOMY.

MEN PUT 40%.

SO JUST ON A RETURN ON INVESTMENT FACTOR, IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

IT JUST MAKES SENSE.

THE OTHER REASONS ARE THAT WOMEN ARE CARING FOR CHILDREN AND ELDERS.

SO THIS IMMENSE CARE BURDEN THAT WOMEN HAVE, THEY DON'T GET PAID FOR IT, AND IT'S --IT'S BEEN QUANTIFIED IN THE HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF FREE SERVICE TO COMMUNITIES AND FAMILY.

THAT SERVICE TAKES WOMEN OUT OF THE WORKPLACE AND OUT OF THE PAID ECONOMY.

SO A FEW EXAMPLES.

SO WOMEN IN PAKISTAN IN ONE OF OUR PROGRAMS, THEY ARE NOT BY CULTURAL AND RELIGIOUS DICTATES, THEY CAN'T SLEEP OUTSIDE ON THE PORCH OR OUTSIDE WHERE THE AIRFLOW IS.

THEY HAVE TO SLEEP INSIDE.

AND SO MEN AND BOYS ARE ON THE FRONT PORCH, AND WOMEN ARE INSIDE JUST ROASTING.

I WANT TO SAY THAT WOMEN WORKING OUTSIDE AND EXPOSED TO THE HEAT ARE EXPERIENCING URINARY TRACT INFECTIONS, RASHES THAT DON'T GO AWAY, HEADACHES, DIZZINESS, MISCARRIAGE.

WE'RE LEARNING MORE AND MORE ABOUT MENSTRUAL HEALTH, THAT HEAT HAS A HUGE EFFECT ON MENSTRUATION.

THE HEAVIER FLOW OR THE FREQUENCY WITHIN THE CYCLE OR HOW LONG IT LASTS.

AND THAT TAKES GIRLS OUT OF SCHOOL.

AND SO WHEN WOMEN ARE SET BACK, THE WORLD IS SET BACK.

AND SO WE FOUNDED HERA SPECIFICALLY TO FOCUS ON WOMEN AND THEIR HEALTH, THEIR INCOME, AND THEIR DIGNITY, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE KEY TO OUR FUTURE, AND ALL OF THE DATA SHOWS US THAT, AND THE STORIES OF THE WORK WE DO AND THE SOLUTIONS THAT WE CODELIVER WITH WOMEN BACKS THAT UP.

AND IT'S JUST GOOD FOR EVERYBODY.

>> YOU FOCUS A LOT ON WOMEN IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.

AND MANY OF THOSE WOMEN ARE PART OF THE LABOR POOL, RIGHT.

THEY DO WORK IN GARMENT FACTORIES, AND THEY DO DOMESTIC WORK, OF COURSE.

THEY'RE STREET VENDORS.

THEY ARE WORKING IN THE FIELDS IN AGRICULTURE.

IS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT THAT TYPE OFS WORK OR THAT PART OF THE ECONOMY THAT IS MORE SENSITIVE TO HEAT THAN IF --OBVIOUSLY IF THEY HAD A JOB IN THE WHITE DOLLAR SECTOR, THEY'RE LIKELY TO WORK IN AN OFFICE THAT HAS AIR CONDITIONING.

>> YES.

AND ONE OF THOSE REASONS IS THAT THE DEVELOPING WORLD DOES NOT HAVE AIR CONDITIONING AT THE RATES WE DO.

AND AIR CONDITIONING CUTS BOTH WAYS IN TERMS OF AN INSTANT COOLING AND ALSO A CONTINUATION AND EXACERBATION OF THE DRIVERS OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING.

AND SO IN THE PLACES WHERE WE WORK, THERE IS NO EXPECTATION THAT AIR CONDITIONING IS COMING.

WE'RE WORKING TO DELIVER PASSIVE COOLING SOLUTIONS AND FANS THAT ARE POWERED BY SOLAR.

AND SO WHAT ARE THE CLEAN WAYS FOR US TO COOL PEOPLE?

AND THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF WAY.

NATURE IS A HUGE COST-EFFECTIVE SOLUTION FOR COOLING.

BUT SPECIFICALLY FOR PEOPLE AND IN OUR FOCUS AND WOMEN, THOSE JOBS LIKE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS, WASTE RECYCLERS, MARKET VENDORS, HEAD LOADERS, PEOPLE THAT CARRY THINGS ON THEIR HEAD FROM ONE END OF THE MARKET TO THE OTHER, ALL ABSOLUTELY EXPOSED AND OF COURSE, AS YOU HAVE ALREADY SAID, O- ECONOMIC ALLY VULNERABLE.

OUR FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES ARE BEING SET BY THIS.

BECAUSE HEAT IS INVISIBLE AND SILENT, IT'S STILL NOT REALLY RECOGNIZED.

AND SO MANY WOMEN ARE LOSING --IN OUR COMMUNITY WE WORK WITH ACROSS INFORMAL MARKET TRADERS IN FREETOWN, SIERRA LEONE, THEY'RE LOSING 60% OF THEIR INCOME TO HEAT.

THAT MEANS THEY FEEL SICK DISPROPORTIONATELY.

THEY'RE TAKING CARE OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE SICK, AND WHAT THEY'RE SELLING, LET'S SAY FRUITS AND VEGETABLES, MEATS, THEY'RE GOING BAD BEFORE THEY CAN SELL THEM.

THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO COLD STORAGE TO KEEP EXTENDING THE LIFE OF WHAT THEY'RE SELLING.

AND THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO A GOOD EARLY WARNING SYSTEM.

AND WHAT WE FOUND IS IF WHEN THEY DO HAVE GOOD ACCESS, THEY'RE ABLE TO CHANGE WHAT THEY BUY.

THEY MIGHT REDUCE WHAT THEY BUY SO THEY HAVE LESS LOSS OF THEIR INVENTORY TO THE HEAT.

AND SO, AGAIN, THERE ARE SOLUTIONS, BUT WE'RE STILL --THIS FIELD IS IN ITS INFANCY OF UNDERSTANDING HEAT.

AND WOMEN ARE TWICE AS LIKELY TO DIE FROM HEAT IN EUROPE THAN MEN.

AND SO THIS DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT IS NOT JUST ON INFORMAL ECONOMIES AND THE DEVELOPING WORLD, IT'S ALL OVER.

AND THAT LONDON HEATWAVE, IF NOTHING IS GOING TO WAKE US UP TO HEAT'S EFFECTS, THAT JUNE HEATWAVE THAT I THINK THE UK ESTIMATED MAYBE 3,000 DEAD FROM JUST THAT WEEK OF HEAT.

SO IT'S HERE, AND THERE ARE LOTS OF ACTIONS TO TAKE, BUT WE'VE GOT TO WAKE UP AND START --START INVESTING IN THESE SOLUTIONS.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO MATERNAL HEALTH CRISIS AND CHILD HEALTH CRISIS, THERE IS A STAT FROM KAISER PERMANENTE CALIFORNIA, IT SAYS HEAT IS DRIVING A 28% INCREASE IN COMPLICATIONS TO PREGNANCY LIKE PRETERM BIRTH AND STILL BIRTH.

I WANT TO ASK ABOUT SOMETHING YOUR ORGANIZATION LAUNCHED.

IT'S CALLED HEAT PREGNANCY INSURANCE.

WHAT IS THAT?

HOW DOES IT WORK?

>> IT'S CALLED HERA MATERNA.

WE CORETURN WITH COMMUNITIES ACROSS SOUTH ASIA AND WEST AFRICA.

A PROGRAM, IT'S A LONG WAY TO SAY WE PROVIDE INSURANCE THAT THE WOMEN PAY A SMALL PORTION TOWARD THAT SUPPLEMENTS THEIR INCOME THAT IS LOST TO EXTREME HEAT.

SO WE HAVE 300,000 WOMEN IN THAT PROGRAM.

AND PREGNANT WOMEN STARTING NEXT YEAR WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR A FREE INSURANCE AND CASH SUPPORT AND OTHER THINGS THAT ARE NONFINANCIAL THINGS LIKE A SOLAR FAN THAT HELP THEM PROTECT THEIR HEALTH DURING THIS MOST HEAT SUSCEPTIBLE TIME.

AND SO WE'LL KICK IT OFF A GROUP OF 30,000 WOMEN IN GUDRAT IN INDIA.

AND IT WILL, AS I SAID, WHEN YOU GET CERTAIN TEMPERATURES AND HUMIDITY LEVELS, IT WILL TRIGGER A PAYMENT.

AND THAT PAYMENT WILL BE BIGGER THAN IT NORMALLY WOULD AND COME SOONER FOR PROTECTIONS THAT HELP A WOMAN PROTECT HER PREGNANCY AND HER EARLY DAYS AFTER SHE'S HAD HER BABY.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SOLUTIONS THAT YOU KNOW ARE WORKING ON BOTH FIRST AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL AND THEN A STRUCTURAL LEVEL.

ON AIN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, WHAT IS SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE WITHOUT ANY AIR CONDITIONING CAN DO TO HELP PREVENT GETTING HEAT EXHAUSTION, HEATSTROKE?

>> SO ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS THAT IS HAPPENING ACROSS THE DEVELOPING WORLD, AND IN SOME CASES THE DEVELOPED WORLD, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE URBAN HEAT ISLAND EFFECT.

THIS IS THE PHENOMENON THAT THE MATERIALS WE BUILT OUR CITIES WITH AND THE ROOFTOPS OF SO, SO MANY INFORMAL SETTLEMENTS AROUND THE WORLD ARE CORRUGATED METAL ROOFS THAT ABSORB HEAT.

AND THAT SAME PHENOMENON HAPPENS IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD.

SO THINK ABOUT LONDON AND THE SUFFERING THAT PEOPLE WENT THROUGH.

THEY DON'T HAVE AIR CONDITIONING, AND THE BUILDINGS ARE HOLDING HEAT.

BLACK ASPHALT HOLDS HEAT AND EMANATES IT AT NIGHT.

GLASS AND STEEL.

AND SO THE CITIES ARE MEGA HEAT SPOTS BECAUSE OF THE MATERIALS WE BUILT THEM WITH, AND BECAUSE OF THE DENSITY.

AND SO THE FIRST THING YOU CAN DO IS COOL THE ROOF.

AND THAT MEANS COAT WIT A LIGHT SURFACE.

THERE ARE ALSO GREEN ROOF PROGRAMS.

WHEN YOU PUT SOME SORT OF NATURE OR GRASS OR YOU CAN USE NATURE AROUND YOUR HOUSE TO SHADE YOUR HOUSE.

SO YOU NEED SHADE, YOU NEED TO COVER THE WINDOWS DURING THE DAY, BUT LET THE AIR IN DURING THE NIGHT, IF YOU CAN.

THERE ARE WAYS TO USE A FAN VERY STRATEGICALLY, AND USING WATER TO PUT AIR ACROSS THE WATER TO COOL A ROOM.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY WE'VE GOT TO GET OUR HEAT LITERACY UP.

I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST PIECES OF HEAT LITERACY IS AN UNDERSTANDING OF NIGHT TEMPERATURES.

WE'RE BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

WHEN THE CITY IS HOLDING HEAT AT NIGHT AND THEN DURING THE DAY COLLECTING IT AND EMANATING IT AT NIGHT, THE NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES ARE NOT COMING DOWN ANYMORE.

AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE THAT HELPS SHOW THAT IS THAT WE HAVE AS A GLOBAL COMMUNITY FOCUSED ON NOT HAVING THE TEMPERATURES ABOVE THE INDUSTRIAL ERA RISE MORE THAN 1.

5 DEGREES CENTIGRADE.

AND THAT IS THE AGREEMENT WE MADE ACROSS COUNTRIES FOR THE PARIS ACCORD IN 2015.

THAT'S A DAYTIME AVERAGE.

SO THE NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES IN A RECENT ANALYSIS WE DID, AND THERE IS A REPORT ACROSS 100 CITIES IN THE WORLD, WE SAW THAT SOME CITIES WERE INCREASING THEIR NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES AS MUCH AS 13 TIMES THE DAYTIME.

AND SO WE'VE GOT TO KEEP OUR EYE ON A 24-HOUR SET OF SOLUTIONS.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS STRUCTURE.

IF WE HAVE THESE URBAN HEAT ISLANDS ALL OVER THE PLANET, THAT REALLY COMES DOWN TO MATTER OF CITY PLANNING.

YOU BUILT THIS TOOL, A CITY HEAT SOLUTIONS CALCULATOR.

IF I'M AN URBAN PLANNER, AND I START TO PLUG THINGS INTO THIS CALCULATOR, WHAT DO I GET?

HOW DO I TRY TO RETHINK WHERE I SHOULD MAKE MY INVESTMENTS IN THIS CITY TO DECREASE THE EFFECTIVENESS?

>> SO THE FIRST THING YOU WANT TO DO IS UNDERSTAND WHERE THE MOST VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES ARE IN YOUR CITY.

AND WHAT THIS CALCULATOR ALLOWS YOU TO DO IS LOOK AT SIX TRIED AND TRUE SOLUTIONS AND CALCULATE WHAT IMPACT IN TERMS OF SAVING PRODUCTIVITY IN THE COMMUNITY AND SAVING LIVES YOU WOULD HAVE IF YOU DID THESE THINGS IN YOUR CITY.

AND WE LOOKED AT 11,000 CITIES IN THE WORLD, AND THE METHODOLOGY IS ALL THERE FOR -- IT'S OPEN SOURCE, AND PEOPLE CAN SEE HOW WE DID THAT.

BUT THE ESSENCE IS IF YOU HAVE A HEAT RESPONSE PLAN, IF YOU HAD GREEN OR COOL ROOFS, IF YOU HAD AN EARLY WARNING SYSTEM, IF YOU USED A COMBINATION OF INSURANCE AND CASH SUPPORT, WHAT SORT OF SAVED PRODUCTIVITY WOULD YOU ACHIEVE IN DOLLARS, AND HOW MANY LIVES MIGHT YOU SAVE IF YOU DID THAT.

AND SO IT'S NOT A DIRECT INVESTMENT TOOL, BUT IT IS A DIRECTIONALLY VERY HELPFUL QUANTIFICATION OF WHAT A CITY CAN DO IN TERMS OF ITS ECONOMIC IMPACTS, BUT ALSO LOOKING AT IF I DID 50% OF THE CITY IN GREEN ROOFS, IF I DID PUT NATURE-BASED SOLUTIONS IN HALF OF THE CITY, THAT SORT OF THING.

AND YOU CAN COME BACK TO SEEING, OKAY, THIS IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE SOLUTION FOR MY CITY.

>> SO WHAT ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF CITIES THAT ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS, THAT ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THIS, AND WHERE IT'S WORKING?

>> INDIA IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF HEAT SOLUTIONS.

THEY'VE HAD HEAT, BEEN BUILT FOR HEAT FOR CENTURIES AND CENTURIES.

AND SO CITIES, PARTICULARLY THE CITY OF AHMEDABAD IS FAMOUS FOR ITS HEAT ACTION PLAN.

HAND IN HAND WITH THE CITY CALCULATOR WOULD BE A HEAT ACTION PLAN.

AND SO OF AHMEDABAD IS UPDATING THAT PLAN.

CITIES HAVE PLANTED TREES AT LONG AVENUES ALL OVER THEIR DOWNTOWN.

IT HAS DROPPED THE AVERAGE DAILY TEMPERATURE IN THE CITY SUBSTANTIALLY.

THE CITY OF ATHENS HAS DELIVERED ALL SORTS OF GREAT HEAT SOLUTIONS THAT ARE NATURE-BASE AND SHADE AND THINKING ABOUT WHERE DO PEOPLE WAIT FOR THE BUS, HOW DO YOU COOL YOUR METRO SYSTEM.

LOOK AT THE CITY OF FREETOWN AND HOW THEY HAVE A CHIEF HEAT OFFICER AND SHE WORKS WITH HERA, AND DELIVERING ALL SORTS OF SOLUTIONS THAT ARE TRAINING FIRSTLINE FRONTLINE HEALTH WORKERS, COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS.

WE ARE CO-CREATING AND DESIGNING, DELIVERING SHADE, SHADE INFRASTRUCTURE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

THAT'S FANS AND SOLAR LIGHTS AND ACCESS TO COLD STORAGE FOR THOSE MARKET TRADERS I MENTIONED EARLIER.

THINKING ABOUT EARLY WARNING AND MAKING SURE THAT EARLY WARNINGS ARE REACHING THE PEOPLE WHO NEED THEM.

AND SO THINKING ABOUT THESE SOLUTIONS AS INTEGRATE AND MULTIFACTOR, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE BASED ON UNDERSTANDING THE COMMUNITY, NOT JUST THE SCIENCE OF WHERE THE HOT SPOTS ARE AND WHERE THE HEAT IS GOING IN TERMS OF PREDICTIONS, BUT ALSO WHICH COMMUNITIES ARE SUFFERING THE MOST AND WHICH SOLUTIONS WORK BEST FOR THEM.

>> CEO OF HERA KATHY BAUGHMAN McLEOD, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

> >> AND FINALLY, AFTER 74 YEARS LOST AT SEA, SEARCH TEAMS HAVE AT LAST FOUND THE WRECKAGE OF THE PAN AM CLIPPER ENDEAVOR.

THE AIRCRAFT CRASHED INTO THE OCEAN AFTER TWO RIGHT ENGINES LOST POWER OFF THE COAST OF PUERTO RICO.

IT CLAIMED 52 LIVES AND CHANGED THE FUTURE OF AIRLINE SAFETY FOREVER.

TOM FOREMAN SHARES THIS REPORT ON THE REMARKABLE STORY.

>> IT'S A PLANE.

>> WHOA, WHOA, LOOK AT THAT!

>> Reporter: FOR THE SEARCH TEAM, THE DISCOVERY OF THE LOST PAN AM PLANE IS A SENSATION.

AFTER 74 YEARS IN THE SAND AND SALTWATER, MANY THOUGHT THIS DOUGLAS DC- 4 WOULD NEVER BE SEEN AGAIN.

BUT THERE IT IS, GHOSTLY IMAGES OF THE ALUMINUM BODY, THE WINGS, EVEN THE LOGO FOUND AFTER YEARS OF TIRELESS WORK BY THE AIR SEA HERITAGE FOUNDATION, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, AND DEEP SEA VISION, WHICH BROUGHT A HIGHLY ADVANCED UNDERWATER DRONE.

>> AND THAT SONAR VEHICLE, WHICH IS AUTONOMOUS, WENT DOWN TO ALMOST 2,000 FEET BELOW THE SURFACE WHEN WE FIRST SAW THE SONAR IMAGERY AND THE OUTLINE OF THE PLANE, IT TOOK OUR BREATH AWAY.

>> LIVE OR FIRST CLASS TOURIST ON THE SUPER CLIPPERS.

>> Reporter: IN THE DECADE AFTER WORLD WAR II, AS CIVILIAN AIR TRAFFIC BOOMED, PAN AM WAS A GLOBAL LEADER.

THE CLIPPER ENDEAVOR PROMISED A THEN QUICK EIGHT- HOUR TRIP FROM PUERTO RICO TO NEW YORK CITY ON GOOD FRIDAY, 1952.

BUT SHORTLY AFTER TAKEOFF, TWO OF ENDEAVOUR'S FOUR ENGINES FAILED, ALONG WITH EFFORTS TO TURN BACK.

THE OLD ACCIDENT REPORT SAYS ALL ABOARD SURVIVED THE VIOLENT WATERY IMPACT, BUT PASSENGERS WERE NOT TOLD WHERE LIFE JACKETS WERE LOCATED OR INSTRUCTED IN THEIR USE PRIOR TO DITCHING.

CONFUSION OVER LIFE RAFTS AND ESCAPE EXITS FOLLOWED AS THE PLANE SANK IN THREE MINUTES.

17 PEOPLE SURVIVED AMID PITCHING SEAS AND SWIRLING SHARKS.

52 DID NOT.

>> WELCOME ABOARD.

>> Reporter: BUT THE FLIGHT ARGUABLY HAS SAVED MANY, MANY LIVES SINCE BECAUSE IT DIRECTLY LED TO THE CREATION OF REGULATIONS REQUIRING PASSENGER SAFETY BRIEFINGS BEFORE EVERY TAKEOFF.

>> LOCATE THE EXIT NEAREST YOU.

>> Reporter: A LEGACY FOR THE LIVING FROM DOZENS WHO WERE LOST FOR SO LONG, AND WHOSE RESTING PLACE NOW HAS BEEN FOUND.

>> THIS FLIGHT AND THIS TRAGIC ACCIDENT REALLY CHANGED AVIATION, FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED IT FOREVER.

AND WE'RE ALL SAFER BECAUSE OF THIS ACCIDENT.

AND SO I THINK WE OWE THEM A REAL DEBT OF REMEMBRANCE.

>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO. "

ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.