>>> HELLO EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY, HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WE'RE THE ONLY NATION THAT DOES IT.

NO OTHER NATION DOES THAT BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP.

NOT EVEN CLOSE.

>> THE SUPREME COURT RULES ON BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP AND CAMPAIGN FINANCE LIMITS.

FORMER GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL, NATASHA SIREN AND DAVID BEHR DISCUSS THE IMPACT OF THESE DECISIONS ON AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

>>> RUSSIANS STANDING IN FUEL LINES ACROSS VARIOUS REGIONS.

RUSSIA CAN CLEARLY SEE THEIR SO-CALLED THREE-DAY WAR HAS NOW ENTERED ITS FIFTH YEAR.

>> MOSCOW FEELS THE PAIN OF PUTIN'S WAR IN UKRAINE, AS KYIV STEPS UP ITS DRONE ATTACKS.

COULD THIS BE A TURNING POINT?

I ASKED WALL STREET JOURNAL CORRESPONDENT.

>>> A BUNCH OF KIDS, MAYBE TEENAGERS, WHO WERE JUST OPTING AS FREELANCERS.

THEY'RE COMMONLY KNOWN AS WESTERNS.

HOW LOVE SCAMMERS ARE MAKING MONEY OFF THE LONELINESS EPIDEMIC.

>>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITY.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

TWO BIG WINS AND ONE BIG LOSS FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP TODAY.

THE SUPREME COURT HANDED DOWN SOME MAJOR RULINGS ON THE LAST DAY OF ITS TERM.

THE STINGING REVIEW, THE PRESIDENT'S ATTEMPT TO GUT BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP FOR MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WAS STRUCK DOWN IN A 6-3 VOTE, INVALIDATED EXECUTIVE ORDER HE SIGNED ON HIS FIRST DAY IN OFFICE.

STILL THE COURT UPHELD TRANS BANDS FROM WOMEN AND GIRLS PLAYING ON FEMALE SPORTS TEAMS.

THE JUSTICES LIFTED A WATER GATE CAP UNLEASHING POLITICAL DONORS TO PLOW EVEN MORE MONEY DIRECTLY INTO PARTIES CAMPAIGNS JUST BEFORE THE MIDTERMS.

SO WHAT CAN WE MAKE OF THESE RULINGS?

THE DIRECTOR OF IMMIGRATION STUDIES AT THE INSTITUTE, AND NATASHA, A PROFESSOR AT YALE LAW SCHOOL.

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU.

DAVID, LET ME START WITH YOU ON THIS BIRTHRIGHT RULING SPECIFICALLY.

THE PRESIDENT AS WE NOTED HAS BEEN FIXATED ON THIS IN HIS FIRST TERM.

HE HAS SPOKEN OUT SINCE THIS DECISION, BUT THIS BEEN A RULING I THINK MOST LEGAL EXPERTS HAD BEEN EXPECTING FROM THE COURT TO RULE DOWN THIS EXECUTIVE ORDER.

WERE YOU EXPECTING THIS DECISION?

>> I WAS BASED ON THE ORAL ARGUMENT.

LOOK, THE SUPREME COURT HAD MADE IT CLEAR THEY WANT TO GIVE THE PRESIDENT SIGNIFICANT DISCRETION ON ITS IMMIGRATION AGENDA.

BUT THERE ARE LIMITS, AND HE HIT UP AGAINST THE LIMITS HERE WITH THIS BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP ORDER, WHICH ITSELF JUST ASSERTS THE AUTHORITY TO LIMIT BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP IN THIS WAY.

AND REALLY DIDN'T PROVIDE ANY KIND OF LEGAL BASIS FOR IT IN THE ORDER ITSELF.

THEY HAD TO KIND OF WORK TO COME UP WITH A THEORY UNDER WHICH THEY COULD CLAIM THIS POWER.

AND THE SUPREME COURT JUST SAID NO.

THIS IS A VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION.

THE PLAIN TEXT, AS WELL AS THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT WOULD INDICATE THIS IS NOT WHAT THE FRAMERS OF THE 14th AMENDMENT WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD.

I MUST CORRECT THE PRESIDENT AND ITS OPENING.

WE'RE NOT THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WITH BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP.

ALMOST EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE HAS BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP OF THE SAME NATURE AS THE UNITED STATES DOES.

>> AND NATASHA, IN STRIKING DOWN THE EXECUTIVE ORDER, CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS WHO WROTE FOR THE MAJORITY WROTE THE CONSTITUTION SETTLED THIS QUESTION MORE THAN 150 YEARS AGO, WRITING CITIZENSHIP WAS THE RIGHT TO HAVE RIGHTS.

WE KEEP THAT PROMISE TODAY.

JUSTICE ALITO WHO CALLED THIS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISIONS IN THE COURT'S HISTORY AND A SERIOUS MISTAKE.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE FROM THE DECENT HERE AND IF YOU WANT TO COUNT WHAT THE FOURTH JUSTICE WROTE AS WELL, PERHAPS EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T GO AS FAR AS THE THREE WHO DECENTED OUTRIGHT?

>> YEAH, IT IS SO INTERESTING BECAUSE WHEN YOU HEARD ORAL ARGUMENTS AND YOU STARTED TO UNDERSTAND AS DAVID WAS DESCRIBING.

THE FACTS THEY PLAY WITH RESPECT TO THIS EXECUTIVE ORDER, AND THE REALITY THERE REALLY WASN'T A LEGAL JUSTIFICATION OFFERED FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS CLEARLY A VIOLATION OF THE 14th AMENDMENT IN THE CONSTITUTION.

YOU WERE IN THIS SITUATION WHERE YOU MIGHT HAVE HOPED FOR A 9-0 DECISION IN THIS CASE, AND THAT UNANIMITY WASN'T THERE.

ACTUALLY DECENTING FROM THE IDEA OF BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP FOR TEMPORARY VISITORS TO THE UNITED STATES, AND DRAWING A DISTINCTION THERE FROM THOSE WHO ARE CHILDREN OF UNAUTHORIZED IMMIGRANTS.

SO ONE WAY TO READ THE RULING IS ON AT LEAST THE SUBSET OF THE POPULATION THAT WAS AT PLAY IN THIS CASE, YOU ACTUALLY HAD A 7-2 MAJORITY.

OVERALL I THINK THE FACT THERE WAS A VERY CLEAR MAJORITY IN THIS CASE INDICATES TO YOU THAT THIS WAS AT LEAST ONE AREA WHERE THE SUPREME COURT, WHICH HAS A MASSIVE CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY AT THE MOMENT WAS WILLING TO PROVIDE A VERY CLEAR REBUKE TO THE PRESIDENT THAT HERE, HE HAD GONE TOO FAR WITH RESPECT TO HIS IMMIGRATION ACTIVITIES.

>> AND DAVID, WHAT DID YOU MAKE THEN OF JUSTICE THOMAS WRITING IN HIS DECENT THAT THE MAJORITY REPURPOSED THE 14th AMENDMENT TO PROTECT ITS OWN SET OF PREFERRED RIGHTS?

>> YEAH, I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

YOU KNOW, I READ THE DECENT.

THEY ALL COME UP WITH DIFFERENT IDEAS ABOUT WHAT THE LIMITS ARE AND WHAT IT MEANS.

IT'S BECAUSE THERE REALLY ISN'T A BASIS FOR THIS EXCEPTION, THAT THEY'RE COMING UP WITH THESE DIFFERENT LINES.

AND IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE REALITY IN 1868, IN 1868, THERE WEREN'T SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE DEPORTABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES, AND THEY WERE ILLEGALLY TRAFFIC SLAVES.

THE VERY PEOPLE HE SAID, THE BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP AMENDMENT WAS INTENDED TO PROTECT.

THOSE WERE THE ONLY PEOPLE AT THE TIME IN 1868 WHO COULD BE LAWFULLY DEPORTED FROM THIS COUNTRY UNDER THE LAW PROHIBITING THE SLAVE TRADE.

AND SO THE VERY ACT OF ADOPTING THE 14th AMENDMENT.

NOT ONLY PROTECTED THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS OR DEPORTABLE IMMIGRANTS IN THE FUTURE AT THE VERY TIME IT WAS ADOPTED, IT PROTECTED DEPORTABLE WHO WERE ILLEGALLY TRAFFICKED SLAVES.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

IT'S NOT HISTORICAL.

AND YOU KNOW, I'M GLAD THE MAJORITY REJECTED IT.

>> YEAH, IT WAS INTERESTING THEN TO EVEN HEAR FROM SPEAKER JOHNSON WHO SAID HE WAS DISAPPOINTED WITH THIS RULING, AND HE SAYS BIRTHRIGHT HAS BEEN GROSSLY ABUSED.

NONETHELESS HE, HIMSELF, DESCRIBED THE RULING AS AN ORIGINALIST VIEW.

SO THEN TO HEAR THESE DECENTS, IT IS INTERESTING TO HEAR WHERE THESE OTHER JUSTICES ARE COMING FROM.

I DO WANT TO GET, NATASHA, YOUR REACTION TO THE PRESIDENT'S RESPONSE HERE.

WE KNOW WE WERE EXPECTING ONE FROM HIM.

AND TOOK TO TRUTH SOCIAL.

NOW URGING CONGRESS TO TAKE IT UPON ITSELF TO END BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP.

IT IS TOO BAD FOR OUR COUNTRY, BUT WE COULD EASILY MAKE IT UP IN CONGRESS THROUGH LEGISLATION.

HOW EASY WOULD THAT LEGISLATION BE?

HE GOES ON TO SAY WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE PRESIDENT, WHO HAS NOW BEEN DETERMINED DURING THE PROCESS.

NO LONGER A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT IS NECESSARY.

CONGRESS SHOULD START TODAY TO WORK ON ENDING EXPENSIVE AND UNFAIR TO OUR COUNTRY, BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP.

THEY WILL HAVE MY COMPLETE AND TOTAL SUPPORT.

SO THEY HAVE HIS SUPPORT, BUT HOW EASY IS IT FOR CONGRESS TO CHANGE THIS LAW ITSELF?

DO YOU THINK THERE IS A POLITICAL APPETITE TO DO IT RIGHT NOW, NATASHA?

>> I WOULD, YOU KNOW, SPECULATE THAT IT IS PRETTY DIFFICULT TO OVERTURN THE AMENDMENT.

I WOULD ALSO SAY THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION AROUND BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP HAS FELT FROM AN ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE LIKE A SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN THAT ARE BORN IN THE UNITED STATES EACH YEAR, THAT ARE BORN UNDER BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP.

THAT'S SOMETHING LIKE .3% OF CHILDREN IN THIS COUNTRY TODAY.

WE'RE IN A MOMENT, BY THE WAY, FROM AN ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE, WHERE WE DESPERATELY NEED MORE IMMIGRANTS, NOT FEWER IMMIGRANTS.

AS THE POPULATION AGES, WE'RE GOING TO NEED PEOPLE IN OUR LABOR FORCE.

SO ALL OF IT FEELS KIND OF MUDDLED AND CONFUSED FROM AN ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE.

AND FRANKLY DOES NOT REALLY SEEM LIKE AS YOU'RE LOOKING AND WATCHING CONGRESS IN THE VARIOUS PRIORITIES THAT THEY HAVE TO NAVIGATE THROUGH, THAT THIS SHOULD RISE TO THE TOP WITH RESPECT TO THEIR CHOSEN ACTIVITIES.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE ECONOMIC COMPLICATIONS HERE.

I WANT TO GET YOU BOTH TO WEIGH IN TO THE FED'S DECISION, I MEAN THE SUPREME COURT'S DECISION, WHICH INVOLVED THE FEDERAL RESERVE YESTERDAY, AND THE PRESIDENT'S EXECUTIVE POWER AND LIMITS ON IT.

THE COURT CLEARED THE WAY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP OR ANY EXECUTIVE TO REMOVE OFFICIALS AT INDEPENDENT AGENCIES.

MOST OF THEM, THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT EXPANSION WE SHOULD NOTE CONTROL OVER THE FOURTH BRANCH.

BUT THE FED WAS SPARED THIS TIME.

AND THIS RELATES TO FED THE FED SAID, THE SUPREME COURT SAID THE FED GOVERNOR DESERVED HER TIME IN COURT FOR NOW.

BUT THERE WERE SOME ON THIS BENCH WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS COMING UP AGAIN IN THE FUTURE ABOUT THE FEDS' ULTIMATE INDEPENDENCE HERE.

HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU, NATASHA?

>> I'M PRETTY CONCERNED HAVING WATCHED THIS ADMINISTRATION IN A VARIETY OF WAYS RELATING NOT JUST TO THE POTENTIAL REMOVAL OF GOVERNOR LISA COOK.

BUT ALSO TO WHAT LOOKED VERY CLEARLY LIKE SORT OF TRUMPED UP CONCERNS WITH RESPECT TO FORMER CHAIR POWELL AND THE RENOVATION PROJECT THAT THE FEDERAL RESERVE WAS DOING.

YOU HAVE SEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP BE PRETTY CLEAR AND ARTICULATE THAT WHAT HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THE FEDERAL RESERVE, PARTICULARLY AHEAD OF THE MIDTERM ELECTION IN NOVEMBER, DECIDES TO CUT INTEREST RATES.

WE KNOW WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES ARE TO BECOME POLITICIZED AND FOCUSED NOT ON SORT OF THE LONG-TERM TRAJECTORY OF INFLATION OR OF THE LABOR MARKET.

BUT INSTEAD OF SHORT-TERM POLITICAL AGENCIES.

I THINK THERE IS REAL CAUSE FOR CONCERN HERE.

THIS ISN'T THE LAST CHAPTER WITH RESPECT TO THE LISA COOK CASE.

IN FACT, THE CASE WAS REMANDED TO LOWER COURTS ON THE PROCEDURAL GROUNDS.

BUT I DO THINK IT IS HEARTENING THAT YOU SAW THE SUPREME COURT ARTICULATE PRETTY CLEARLY.

BOTH AS A MATTER OF HISTORY AND HISTORICAL CONTEXT AND THE TRADITION THAT THEY SAY IS UNIQUE OF THE FIRST AND SECOND NATIONAL BANKS IN THIS COUNTRY.

BUT ALSO FRANKLY AS A MATTER OF ECONOMIC IMPORTANCE THAT NOT HAVING TO HAVE THE APPEARANCE.

NOT JUST THE FACT OF INDEPENDENCE IS SUPREMELY IMPORTANT FOR THE FEDERAL RESERVE, THAT THEY WILL CONTINUE TO CARVE OUT THIS INDEPENDENT AGENCY FROM THIS SORT OF POLITICAL INFLUENCE THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO LEVY.

>> SO THUS FAR, SHIELDED AND HELD TO A BIT OF A HIGHER STANDARD, NONETHELESS IN HER DECENT OF THE DECISION.

JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR SAYS THE WHO EMERGES WITH FAR GREATER POWER THAN EVER BEFORE."

DAVID, LET'S ALSO GET YOU TO WEIGH IN TO DECISIONS WE HEARD FROM THE SUPREME COURT LAST WEEK AS IT RELATES TO TEMPORARY PROTECTIVE STATUS.

THE COURT FOUND THE COURTS THEMSELVES, LOWER COURTS, CAN'T REVIEW DHS DECISIONS, EFFECTIVELY LETTING TRUMP IN THE TPS PROGRAM AND SEND HAITIANS AND SYRIANS HOME.

FOR FAMILIES THAT ARE CURRENTLY LIVING UNDER PROTECTION HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THEM?

>> WELL, IT REALLY MEANS THEY'RE GOING TO END UP HERE WITHOUT LEGAL STATUS.

THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT ONLY ENGAGED IN A POLICY OF STRIPPING PEOPLE OF THEIR LEGAL STATUS.

ATTEMPTING TO STRIP AWAY CITIZENSHIP FROM PEOPLE IN ORDER TO GET UP MORE DEPORTATION.

HE IS ALSO BLOCKING LEGAL IMMIGRATION PATHWAYS FOR PEOPLE FROM HAITI AND THESE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE BEING TARGETED.

SO THE ALTERNATIVE IS NOT, WELL, IMMIGRANT LEGALLY.

THOSE PATHS ARE COMPLETELY BLOCKED BY THIS ADMINISTRATION'S POLICIES.

SO THE DECISION IS ULTIMATELY WHETHER TO GO HOME TO A COUNTRY THAT IS IN A DISASTER OR TO STAY AND TRY TO WAIT IT OUT IN A LEGAL STATUS, WHICH UNFORTUNATELY MANY WILL CHOOSE THAT OPTION.

>> I WANT TO PLAY SOUND FROM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR'S INTERVIEW IN APRIL.

SO ANTICIPATING THE DECISION COMING DOWN FROM THE SUPREME COURT.

HAITI'S PRIME MINISTER SAYS IT CAN'T SAFELY TAKE THESE PEOPLE BACK, GIVEN THAT THE POLITICAL STRIFE AND THE ECONOMIC STRIFE THAT THE COUNTRY FACES.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> IS IT OKAY TO SEND A MILLION HAITIANS BACK TO A COUNTRY THAT YOU DESCRIBED AS, YOU KNOW, UNDER A LOT OF GANG VIOLENCE AND GANG CONTROL?

AND COULD IT COMPLICATE YOUR >> IT WILL DEFINITELY COMPLICATE THE JOB.

BUT I UNDERSTAND EVERY COUNTRY'S RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR OWN IMMIGRATION POLICY.

THE HUMANITY AND OUTCOME SHOULD BE THAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COME BACK OR FORCED TO COME BACK TO HAITI UNTIL WE RESOLVE THE SECURITY ISSUE.

OF COURSE, THEY ARE HAITIANS.

WE WILL TAKE BACK ALL OF US CITIZENS.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE LEFT HAITI.

BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO MOVE TO A COUNTRY.

WE HAVE BEAUTIFUL WEATHER, WHETHER YOU'VE BEEN TO HAITI OR NOT.

THEY LEAVE BECAUSE THERE'S INSECURITY, AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.

>> DAVID, AT THE SAME TIME, THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS GRANTED ASYLUM TO WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE EXPERIENCING GENOCIDE, THOUGH I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS THAT MUCH CONCRETE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT.

SO WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS APPARENT CONTRADICTION HERE FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION?

>> YEAH.

GROUP OF IMMIGRANTS WHO RECEIVED A FAVORABLE OUTCOME BY THIS ADMINISTRATION.

EVERYONE ELSE HAS BEEN CLOSED OFF FROM REFUGEE STATUS AND LEGAL IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN SLASHED BY ALMOST 50%.

HE IS ACTUALLY CUT LEGAL IMMIGRATION OVERALL MORE THAN HE'S CUT ILLEGAL ENTRIES AT THE BORDER.

AND SO THE SHOCKING OUTCOME HERE IS THAT YOU END UP WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE FORCED BACK, OUT OF LEGAL STATUS, WHO ARE WORKING AND CONTRIBUTING HERE BACK TO A DISASTER ZONE, WHILE WE'RE INVITING PEOPLE FROM A COUNTRY, HAPPY TO HAVE THEM HERE.

I'VE GOT NO, YOU KNOW, NO OPPOSITION TO SOUTH AFRICANS BEING ABLE TO IMMIGRATE HERE.

BUT IT DOES SHOW THE CONTRAST IN POLICY THAT I THINK LACKS IRRATIONAL BASIS.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.

SOME SORT OF RATIONAL BASIS, BY WHICH WE MOVE FORWARD WITH IMMIGRATION POLICY.

>> AND NATASHA, IT IS NOTEWORTHY THAT THERE ARE REPUBLICANS, INCLUDING GOVERNORS, INCLUDING THE GOVERNOR OF OHIO.

AGAINST THIS DECISION.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE IMMIGRANT THAT IT WOULD HAVE ON SOME PEOPLE IN HIS OWN STATE.

>> AS HAITIANS WHO MANY TIMES ARE TAKING CARE OF YOUR MOM OR YOUR DAD WHO HAS ALZHEIMER'S.

TAKING CARE OF FAMILY MEMBERS WHO MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, IN A NURSING HOME.

AND TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO PULL ALL THOSE OUT IS JUST NOT IN OUR OWN SELF-INTEREST.

>> AND NATASHA, I DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE LITANY OF COMMENTS, CONTROVERSIAL, HATEFUL COMMENTS, RACIST COMMENTS THAT THE PRESIDENT, THAT OTHERS THAT HAVE SUPPORTED THIS DECISION HAVE MADE ABOUT THESE REFUGEES, HAITIANS IN PARTICULAR.

JUST GIVE US YOUR TAKE ON WHAT THIS DECISION MEANS.

DOES IT SUPPORT PERHAPS MORE OF THIS TYPE OF RHETORIC IN THIS COUNTRY, ALLOWING FOR IT?

>> I WORRY THAT IT SUPPORTS ALSO WORRY THAT IT SOWS THE SEEDS OF ECONOMIC DISRUPTION, MUCH LIKE YOU WERE PLAYING FOR ME IN THAT CLIP.

PARTICULARLY IN PARTS OF THE ECONOMY, THAT CARE SECTOR, NURSING HOMES, WHAT THIS ORDER MEANS IS THAT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTING TO THE ECONOMY ON THE ORDER OF MAGNITUDE OF AROUND $30 BILLION EACH YEAR CONTRIBUTED TO THOSE WITH TPS STATUS ARE ALL OF A SUDDEN GOING TO BE IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY HAVE THE CHOICE ABOUT WHETHER TO CONTINUE TO STAY IN THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT LEGAL STATUS OR NO LONGER BE CONTRIBUTING TO THE ECONOMY IN THE WAY THEY ARE TODAY, AT A MOMENT WHEN WE NEED MORE NURSING HOMES, NOT LESS, AND MORE PEOPLE TO BE STAFFING THOSE, AND LABOR SHORTAGES ARE QUITE SIGNIFICANT ACROSS THE BOARDER IN THOSE TYPES OF SECTORS.

I REALLY WORRY ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCE HERE, AND FRANKLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RATIONAL FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE TO TRY TO INSTITUTE THIS TYPE OF ANY CONCERN FOR THE CASCADING CONSEQUENCES.

>> LET ME, SINCE WE HAVE YOU, AND THIS IS YOUR FIELD, NATASHA.

JUST THE DECISION, IF YOU FIND A RATIONAL FOR IT, AND PERHAPS THE IMPACT OF THE COURT'S DECISION.

LIFTING THE CAP ON HOW MUCH A PARTY CAN SPEND, HAND IN HAND WITH ITS OWN CANDIDATE, IN TERMS OF CAMPAIGN FINANCE.

IN A SENSE, ENDLESS AMOUNTS OF MONEY CAN NOW GO INTO THESE CAMPAIGNS.

>> YEAH, WE ARE ALREADY A COUNTRY WHERE THERE ARE DEEP CONCERNS ABOUT THE NATURE OF POLITICAL CORRUPTION, THE WAYS IN WHICH THOSE AT THE TOP OF THE DISTRIBUTION, WHO HAVE BILLIONS AND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BE ABLE TO DEPLOY ON THEIR PREFERRED CAUSES ARE ABLE TO SHAPE POLICY OUTCOMES.

INTO THAT CONTEXT TO ACTUALLY WE'RE SEEING WHAT FEW LIMITS EXIST WITH RESPECT TO THAT TYPE OF CONTRIBUTION AND THAT TYPE OF ACTIVITY.

I WORRY IT'S NOT JUST LIKE AN ECONOMIC ISSUE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO START TO SEE EVEN MORE DOLLARS AND UNLIMITED DOLLARS IN THESE SORTS OF CAMPAIGNS BE DEPLOYED, WHEN THEY COULD BE DEPLOYED TO OTHER PURPOSES THAT ARE SORT OF MORE VALUE ADDED FROM AN ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE.

BUT I ALSO WORRY ABOUT LIKE THE CORROSIVE NATURE OF THESE TYPES OF ACTIVITIES FOR OUR DEMOCRACY AND FOR AN ECONOMY WHERE ALREADY MANY ARE FRUSTRATED THAT IT FEELS LIKE THERE ARE TWO SETS OF RULES.

ONE FOR THE VERY WEALTHY AND ONE FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

>> WE CAN SEE THE IMMEDIATE IMPACT NOW AS WE ARE MONTHS AWAY FROM A CONTROVERSIAL ELECTION.

THANK YOU AS ALWAYS FOR BREAKING THIS ALL DOWN FOR US.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> WE TURN NOW TO SOUTH AFRICA, WHERE A MONTH'S LONG RATIONING UP OF ANTI-IMMIGRANT SENTIMENT IS COMING TO AHEAD.

LARGE CROWDS HAVE TAKEN TO THE STREETS IN A NATIONWIDE PROTEST AGAINST UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRATION.

ORGANIZERS SET A JUNE 30 DEADLINE FOR ALL UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANTS TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY AFTER ACCUSING THEM, WITHOUT EVIDENCE, OF COMMITTING CRIMES AND STEALING JOBS.

THAT DEADLINE, AND HAS DEPLOYED ADDITIONAL POLICE AMID FEARS THE MARCHES COULD TURN VIOLENT.

WE HAVE THIS REPORT FROM THE STREETS OF JOHANNESBURG.

>> THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN SOUTH AFRICA MARCHES AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

AGAINST THE COUNTRY TODAY, THIS IS THE DEADLINE THEY SENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANTS TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

>> IT DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM ANYMORE.

SO THAT IS WHY WE ARE SAYING THIS IS THE END OF IT.

WE ARE TIRED.

YEAH.

>> Reporter: THE PEOPLE WHO CRITICIZE THESE PROTESTS, HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> BECAUSE OF THIS MARCH, IT'S A PEACEFUL MARCH.

SO I'M NOT TAKING IT AS A MEANS.

WE ARE ASKING PEOPLE TO GO TO THEIR COUNTRY.

WE JUST WANT TO HAVE OUR TIME, SOUTH AFRICANS.

WITH EVERYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING HERE.

>> Reporter: THIS MARCH HAS DEVELOPED TO A FEW THOUSAND PEOPLE NOW.

A FEW SPORADIC MARCHES POPPING UP IN JOHANNESBURG AND OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

SOME OF THEM UNAFFILIATED WITH OFFICIAL ORGANIZERS OF THIS JUNE 30 DEADLINE.

WHY ARE YOU MARCHING TODAY?

>> WELL, I'M MARCHING FOR OUR PEOPLE.

THE CORRUPTION.

>> Reporter: THE MARCHES HERE IN JOHANNESBURG HAVE BEEN LARGELY PEACEFUL.

I SEE SOME EVIDENCE OF PEOPLE THROWING GLASSES AT SOME BUILDINGS THEY DROVE PAST.

POLICE DID A GOOD JOB OF LARGELY KEEPING THEM FROM DOING MORE DAMAGE, AND THAT'S BEEN THE TENSION BETWEEN THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TO PICKET, AND THOSE WHO FEAR THAT IT IS MORE THAN PICKETING.

IT COULD DEGENERATE INTO CRIME.

>> OUR THANKS TO LARRY FOR THAT REPORT FROM JOHANNESBURG.

>>> WE TURN TO MOSCOW NOW, WHERE THE COST OF PUTIN'S WAR HAS BECOME IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE.

DOZENS OF UKRAINIAN DRONES SWARMED THE RUSSIAN CAPITAL OVERNIGHT, REPORTEDLY STRIKING ONE OF THE COUNTRY'S LARGEST SATELLITE CENTERS.

AS KYIV RAMPS UP ITS CAMPAIGN TO DRAIN THE KREMLIN'S WAR ON THE ECONOMY.

KEY INFRASTRUCTURES HAVE CAUSED FUEL SHORTAGES, LONG LINES AT GAS STATIONS, AND POWER OUTAGES.

PUSHING CRIMEA INTO A STATE OF EMERGENCY.

SO HOW IS PUTIN HANDLING THIS INCREASED PRESSURE?

A WALL STREET JOURNALIST CHIEF CORRESPONDENT JOINS ME NOW.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU BACK ON THE SHOW AGAIN.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS LATEST ATTACK OF UKRAINIAN DRONES ON MOSCOW THIS WEEK.

RUSSIA SAYS IT DOWNED MORE THAN 400.

THERE ARE REPORTS A SIX-MONTH-OLD BABY WAS KILLED SOUTH OF THE CAPITAL, AND PUTIN HAS ANSWERED TO THIS LATEST ATTACK BY VOWING THE, "FINAL LIBERATION OF DONBASS."

THIS IS, HOWEVER, WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE FUEL SHORTAGES THIS HAS CREATED.

>> WE'RE WELL AWARE PROBLEMS PERSIST AND BUSINESSES.

LINES ALSO REMAIN.

IT IS NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE TO FIND THE REQUIRED GRADE AT PRESENT.

AND OF COURSE, WE UNDERSTAND THE DIFFICULTIES FACED BY AGRICULTURAL PRODUCERS AND FARMING ENTERPRISES DURING THIS PERIOD.

EVERY EFFORT MUST BE MADE TO ENSURE SEASONAL FUEL SUPPLY, SCHEDULES ARE FULLY OBSERVED FOR THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR.

THE HARVEST DEPENDS ON IT.

>> SO HE IS ACKNOWLEDGING THIS IMPACT HERE AS SORT OF A BURDEN, BUT NOT CRITICAL.

YOU'VE COVERED THE RUSSIAN SOCIETY FOR YEARS NOW, SINCE THIS WAR BEGAN.

THAT HAS BEEN ONE OF PUTIN'S PRIMARY GOALS TO SHIELD AVERAGE RUSSIANS, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN MAJOR CITIES FROM THIS WAR.

HE'S EVEN AVOIDED CALLING THIS A WAR.

HOW HARD IS THAT AT THIS POINT NOW?

CAN HE TRULY SHIELD RUSSIANS FROM WHAT IT THIS WAR HAS CREATED?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND THE ANSWER IS NO.

THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST TIME THAT EVERY SINGLE RUSSIAN PERSON IS AFFECTED BY THE WAR ON UKRAINE.

YOU KNOW, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT RUSSIANS USED TO WATCH ON TV IN THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR, THEN THERE WERE OCCASIONAL STRIKES.

BUT NOW EVERYONE NEEDS TO DRIVE OR TO TAKE A BUS OR TO BUY THINGS THAT ARE BEING DELIVERED BY TRUCKS TO THEIR GROCERY STORES.

ALL OF A SUDDEN RUSSIA IS PARALYZED NOW.

THERE ARE FUEL SHORTAGES.

PRETTY MUCH EVERY SINGLE CITY, INCLUDING MOSCOW.

THERE ARE LINES OF AN HOUR, SOME IN OTHER AREAS OVERNIGHT, MAYBE TWO NIGHTS.

THESE ARE THE SCENES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN SEEN BY RUSSIANS IT IN DECADES.

IT IS ALSO NOW THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE 1990s THAT RUSSIA, WHICH THEY USED TO CALL A GAS STATION.

THEY'RE ACTUALLY HAVING TO IMPORT FUEL FROM OVERSEAS.

THE CRIMEA SPOKESMAN SAID TODAY THAT RUSSIA IS NOW CONSIDERING IMPORTING GASOLINE FROM FAR DESTINATIONS.

SO THAT'S REALLY A HUGE SHIFT, THE RESULT OF UKRAINE'S RELENTLESS DRONES.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS EVERY NIGHT, SEVERAL HUNDRED DRONES FLYING TOWARDS RUSSIA, STRIKING THOSE REFINERIES.

BUT ONE-THIRD OF RUSSIA'S REFINING CAPACITY IS NOW OFFLINE.

AND STRAINING OTHER TARGETS SUCH AS MILITARY INSTALLATIONS, SUCH AS PORT FACILITIES, AND IN RECENT DAYS, ALSO THE MILITARY FACILITIES THAT MANUFACTURE THE RUSSIAN MISSILES THAT RUSSIA USES TO STRIKE UKRAINIAN CITIES.

WE'VE SEEN A SHIFT OF NOT JUST DRONES, BUT MISSILES.

SO UKRAINIAN MANUFACTURERS AND MISSILES, THAT'S BEEN USED TO HIT FACTORIES THAT WILL MAKE COMPONENTS FOR RUSSIA.

MISSILES, ALSO ANOTHER ONE IN THE CITY.

SO THERE'S PRETTY DANGEROUS DEVELOPMENTS FOR THE RUSSIAN MILITARY INDUSTRY TOO.

>> AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW THE RUSSIAN MILITARY HAS THEIR OWN DRONE WARFARE AS WELL, IN MANY WAYS, OUTPACING NATO COUNTRIES.

AND RUSSIA IS NOT THAT FAR BEHIND IN DRONE WARFARE PRODUCTION.

BUT AS IT RELATES TO THESE SPECIFIC LONGER-RANGE STRIKES, WHICH THE UNITED STATES, WE SHOULD NOTE.

EVEN UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD REALLY URGED UKRAINE NOT TO ENGAGE IN AND NOT TO PURSUE.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY CALLS THEM LONG-RANGED SANCTIONS.

IN HIS VIEW, HE THINKS THIS IS WHAT'S GOING TO BRING PRESIDENT PUTIN TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE IN EARNEST.

IS THAT HOW YOU'RE INTERPRETING IT?

DO YOU THINK THIS WILL FINALLY GET HIM TO SETTLE DOWN FOR PEACE TALKS OR IS HE ONLY GOING TO FIGHT BACK HARDER NOW?

>> PRESIDENT PUTIN IS A VERY STUBBORN MAN.

HE'S A MAN WHO BELIEVES HE CAN WIN THIS WAR IN THE BATTLEFIELD.

YOU KNOW, IN IT HAD SPEECH IN WHICH HE PROMISED TO TAKE CARE HE ALSO SPOKE AT LENGTH ABOUT REAL AND ALLEGED MILITARY RUSSIAN VICTORIES IN THE BATTLEFIELD.

THE INFORMATION HE WAS CITING IS INCORRECT, SO THERE IS A WIDELY OPTIMISTIC ASSESSMENT THAT ARE NOT CORRESPONDING TO THE REALITY OF THE BATTLEFIELDS, WHERE RUSSIA HAS BARELY ADVANCED IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS.

AND SO THE EQUATION IS VERY SIMPLE.

YOU KNOW, FUEL CAN RETURN TO THE RUSSIAN GAS STATIONS AT THE MOMENT RUSSIA AGREES TO A CEASE- FIRE OR TO A CEASE-FIRE WHEN IT COMES TO LONG-RANGE STRIKES.

PRESIDENT PUTIN REFUSED TO DO THAT.

HE SAID RUSSIA HAS AN ADVANTAGE IN LONG-RANGE FIRE POWER, SO IT IS NOT IN RUSSIA'S BENEFIT TO SEIZE A FIRE AND STOP THE LONG-RANGED STRIKES.

SO FOR NOW THIS EXCHANGE WILL GO ON.

AS UKRAINE'S CAPABILITIES GROW, SO WILL THE PAIN THAT RUSSIA IS SUFFERING.

>> LET'S TURN TO THIS UNBELIEVABLE BLOCKADE THAT IT'S SURROUNDING CRIMEA NOW.

THIS WEEK THE RUSSIAN INSTALLED STATE OF EMERGENCY ACROSS OCCUPIED CRIMEA, A REMINDER FOR OUR VIEWERS THAT RUSSIA ILLEGALLY ANNEXED CRIMEA IN 2014.

SINCE THEN WE'VE SEEN BLACKOUTS NOW, THE PAST FEW WEEKS.

FUEL HAS BEEN BANNED TO ORDINARY RESIDENTS.

WE'RE SEEING A MASS EXODUS OF THOSE INTO RUSSIA.

NOT SEEING MUCH TRAFFIC AT ALL GOING THE OTHER WAY.

IN YOUR LATEST PIECE, THEY ARGUE CRIMEA, WHICH WAS ONCE A CROWN JEWEL FOR VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS REALLY TURNED AROUND HIS NECK.

WHAT IS THE GREATEST RISK FOR HIM HERE?

IN TERMS OF ALL OF THE INVESTMENTS HE'S MADE IN CRIMEA?

THIS WAS A POPULAR ANNEXATION, EVEN FOR THE MAJORITY OF RUSSIANS AT THAT TIME, WE SHOULD NOTE.

GIVEN THE STATE IT IS IN RIGHT NOW, DOES HE FACE MORE PRESSURE AT HOME POLITICALLY OR IS THIS MORE OF A MILITARY CHALLENGE FOR HIM?

>> I THINK FOR NOW, IT'S A MILITARY AND LOGISTICAL CHALLENGE.

OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR THINGS INSIDE RUSSIA WAS FOR PRESIDENT PUTIN TO TAKE OVER CRIMEA.

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF RUSSIAN CITIZENS HAVE MOVED IN ILLEGALLY TO SETTLE THERE SINCE THEN.

AND NOW HE HAS A PROBLEM BECAUSE HE CANNOT SUPPLY THIS PENINSULA.

UKRAINE IS NOW DEPLOYED THIS SO-CALLED MID-RANGE STRIKE DRONES THAT ARE PATROLLING THE ROADS TOWARDS CRIMEA THAT, ARE GUIDED, SO THEY'RE STRIKING FUEL TANKS.

THEY'RE STRIKING OTHER VEHICLES.

THEY ARE ALSO HITTING POWER INSTALLATIONS, REFINERIES THAT HAVE SUNK.

THEY HAVE SUNK A NUMBER OF FERRIES THAT LINKED CRIMEA TO MAINLAND RUSSIA.

ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE ARE POWER SHORTAGES, THERE ARE FOOD SHORTAGES, AND DEFINITELY A SHORTAGE OF FUEL ON THE BLACK MARKET IN CRIMEA TODAY.

FUEL GOES FOR UPWARDS OF $25 TO $30 PER GALLON.

SO IT IS A MILITARY ASSET, IF YOU CAN SUSTAIN IT.

BUT IF YOU CANNOT SUSTAIN IT, IT THEN BECOMES A MILITARY LIABILITY.

THAT'S WHAT UKRAINE IS COUNTING ON.

>> AS WE NOTED BEFORE, RUSSIA IS ALSO ADAPTING QUICKLY IN TERMS OF DRONE TECHNOLOGY IN PRODUCTION.

IS UKRAINE'S LEAD IN THIS FIELD DURABLE OR DO YOU THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT MOSCOW COULD CLOSE THE GAP IN?

>> YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THESE YO YOS THROUGHOUT THE WAR, THE CAT AND MOUSE GAME ON ONE SIDE, AND THE OTHER UPSETS IT WITH THE TECHNOLOGY SWINGS.

SO RIGHT NOW FOR THE LAST, LET'S SEE, TWO, THREE MONTHS, UKRAINE DEFINITELY HAS AN ADVANTAGE IN PART BECAUSE IT USES THE DRONES THAT OPERATE USING STAR LINK.

RUSSIA CANNOT USE STAR LINK FOR NOW.

IN PART BECAUSE OF THE USE OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE FOR THE DRONES THAT ARE PATROLLING THE ROADS.

SO IF MANY THAT SEGMENT, UKRAINE DEFINITELY HAS AN ADVANTAGE.

NOW, WHAT OTHER THINGS RUSSIA COULD COME UP WITH IN THE UPCOMING WEEKS AND MONTHS.

IT IS REPUTABLE TO FIND SOME SORT OF SOLUTION.

THEN WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER TECHNOLOGY.

SO THIS WAR IS REALLY A WAR OF TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE CHANGING BY THE WEEK AND BY THE MONTH.

RENDERING ALL TECHNOLOGIES VERY, VERY QUICKLY.

>> WILL AND THESE TECHNOLOGICAL FEATS THAT UKRAINE HAS AMASSED OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO HAVE DEFINITELY GOTTEN NOTICED, AND PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS EVEN WEIGHED IN ON THIS AS WELL AT THE G-7.

HE REPORTEDLY SAID HE WAS HUGELY IMPRESSED BY UKRAINE'S STRIKES, DEEP INSIDE RUSSIA AND AGREED TO TIGHTER SANCTIONS.

UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS SAY THEY ARE CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC, THAT PERHAPS TRUMP COULD BE TURNING IN THEIR FAVOR AND WARMING TO THEM.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THIS WITH THE NATO CHIEF LAST WEEK.

>> LOOK, NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT, HE'S DOING PRETTY WELL.

HE IS HOLDING HIS OWN AT LEAST.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DYING ON BOTH SIDES, BUT I THINK HE'S DOING PRETTY WELL.

YOU HAVE TO SAY HE'S COURAGEOUS, HE'S GOT GREAT EQUIPMENT, BUT HE'S GOT GREAT MEN.

HE'S GOT FIGHTERS.

>> NOW HE'S PRAISED UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS AND THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE IN THE PAST.

I DON'T RECALL MANY TIMES HE'S ACTUALLY PRAISED PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HIMSELF.

DO YOU SEE A SIGNIFICANT TURN IN CHANGE IN THE PRESIDENT'S ATTITUDE TOWARDS UKRAINE OR DO YOU THINK THIS CHANGES ONCE AGAIN WHEN VLADIMIR PUTIN GETS HIM ON THE PHONE?

>> WELL, I MEAN THERE'S A FACTOR WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, HE LIKES WINNERS.

AND HE IS NOW --IT LOOKS LIKE HE IS BELIEVING THAT UKRAINE HAS TURNED THE TIDE OF THE WAR, AND HE IS ENJOYING THIS WINNING STRIKE.

BEING ABLE TO HIT THE HEART OF MOSCOW.

BEING ABLE TO DISABLE, YOU KNOW, MUCH OF RUSSIA'S ECONOMY THROUGH THE FUEL SHORTAGES.

BEING ABLE TO IMPOSE THE BLOCKADE ON CRIMEA.

SO THAT IS A FAR CRY FROM THE BATTLEFIELD PICTURE OF WHEN OFFICE IN THE BEGINNING OF LAST YEAR WHEN HE TOLD PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY THAT YOU HAVE NO CARDS.

SO UKRAINE HAS SHOWN THEY HAVE CARDS, AND PRESIDENT TRUMP IS HONEST.

>> AND EVEN IF THE BALANCE HAS SHIFTED IN UKRAINE'S FAVOR, NO ONE SHOULD DOUBT THE THREAT THAT RUSSIA STILL POSES TO THE REGION, EVEN TO NATO ALLIES, ESPECIALLY SINCE THERE IS A REAL QUESTION BEING ASKED AS TO HOW THE UNITED STATES WILL ACT, IF ONE OF THOSE ALLIES IS, IN FACT, ATTACKED.

WILL IT HONOR ARTICLE V. SINCE THAT IS IN PLAY, THE QUESTION THEN RISES ABOUT HOW MUCH NATO COUNTRIES CAN DEFEND THEMSELVES WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE U.S.

YOU HAVE STUDIED THIS AS WELL.

YOU'VE DONE SOME WAR GAMING.

WHERE WILL THEY STAND, ESPECIALLY AS IT RELATES TO DRONE TECHNOLOGY?

>> OH, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE ARE SAYING THE UKRAINIANS ARE SO BRAVE FROM WARFARE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS AND THE NATIVE ITALIAN.

WELL, UNFORTUNATELY THE SCENE APPLIES TO THE FEW DOZEN RUSSIAN SOLDIERS.

AS PUTIN IS LOOKING AT THE STALEMATE ON THE BATTLEFIELD OF UKRAINE AND IS LOOKING AT THE MOUNTING CASUALTIES, I HAVE A CHOICE TO MAKE TO TRY TO FIND A SOLUTION OR TO ESCALATE.

AND ONE POSSIBLE AVENUE OF THE ESCALATION COULD BE A PART OF THE NATO COUNTRIES, COULD BE THE BOLD EXCHANGE, FINLAND, POLAND.

WHAT I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE'LL FIND IN THE SPOT OR A PERCEIVED WEAK SPOT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS ALWAYS HAD A EUROPEAN NATIONS IN THIS DAY.

HE DOESN'T BELIEVE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

AND IF HE COUNTS ON THE U.S.

STAYING OUT OF THE FINES, THERE IS A HIGHER RISK THAT HE COULD MISJUDGE HIS CAPABILITIES AND START ANOTHER WAR ELSEWHERE.

YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT THE FIRST TIME.

AS WE SEE FROM UKRAINE, HE HAS ALSO MISJUDGED HIS CAPABILITIES UKRAINE IN 2022.

>> FIVE YEARS NOW INTO THE WAR.

WE ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR ANALYSIS IN REPORTING.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> NEARLY $1 BILLION, THAT'S THE SUM EXTRACTED OUT OF THE U.S.

LAST YEAR FROM ONLINE CAT FISH SCAMS, PRAYING ON LONELY AMERICANS, USING FAKE DATING SITE PROFILES AND PROMISING RELATIONSHIPS.

YOUNG MEN BASED IN NIGERIA ARE PERSUADING INDIVIDUALS TO SEND THEM THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

JOURNALISTS AND AUTHOR CARLOS' NEW BOOK LOOKS AT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THESE SCAMS, WHICH HIT CLOSE TO HOME AFTER HIS MOTHER BECAME A VICTIM.

HE JOINS TO DISCUSS WHAT THIS ISSUE REVEALS ABOUT CULTURAL FAILURES IT IN BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND NIGERIA.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOUR RECENT BOOK IS CALLED THE YAHOO BOYS, LOVE, DECEPTION, AND THE REAL LIVES OF NIGERIA'S ROMANCE SCAMMERS.

THIS STORY?

WHAT WAS A TRIGGER?

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME HERE.

LONG TIME AGO AROUND TEN YEARS AGO, MY MOM MET A WONDERFUL AMERICAN MAN ON A DATING APP.

YOU KNOW, SHE'S A SINGLE MOM.

SHE WAS TAKING CARE OF ME AND MY TWO BROTHERS.

SHE WAS SO EXCITED AFTER MEETING THESE MEN CALLED BRIAN.

WE THOUGHT, OKAY, WHY NOT?

BUT THEN THEIR RELATIONSHIP WAS VERY WEIRD FROM THE BEGINNING.

THEY WERE EXCHANGING E-MAILS.

THE GUY SAID HE WAS BASED IN SYRIA, AN AMERICAN SOLDIER.

AND AFTER A MONTH, THE GUY SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO SHIP SOME GOLD BARS TO OUR APARTMENT.

OF COURSE, MY MOM DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE GOLD BARS, BUT THEY WOULD START A NEW LIFE TOGETHER.

I KNEW IT WAS A SCAM.

SO I TRACED THE E-MAIL ADDRESS, AND THE GUY, BRIAN, WAS NOT IN SYRIA, BUT ACTUALLY HE WAS IN NIGERIA.

SO AFTER A FEW YEARS OF ME WATCHING MY MOM STRUGGLING WITH LONELINESS, I WAS VERY CURIOUS, I WANTED TO KNOW WHO WAS THE GUY BEHIND THE SCAM?

SO I WENT TO NIGERIA.

>> AS ANY GOOD REPORTER WOULD, RIGHT?

AND YOU QUIT YOUR JOB.

YOU TRAVELED TO THIS PLACE.

I MEAN, WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST IMPRESSION?

WERE YOU LOOKING FOR SOMETHING?

WERE YOU LOOKING FOR KIND OF A BIG ORGANIZED CRIME RING, YOU KNOW, HUGE MACHINES THAT WERE POWERING ALL OF THIS?

AND WHAT DID YOU ACTUALLY FIND?

>> SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW NIGERIA HAVE THESE SCAMMERS, BUT THERE ARE SCAMMERS EVERYWHERE.

AND IN MY EXCHANGE, THE KIND OF SCAMS THEY DO THAT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE LOVE SCAMS IN SOUTHEAST ASIA, AND THESE PEOPLE ARE WELL-ORGANIZED.

I EXPECTED SOMETHING LIKE THAT, VERY WELL ORGANIZED, VERY DANGEROUS, VERY RECKLESS.

BUT WHAT I FOUND ACTUALLY WAS A BUNCH OF KIDS, MAYBE TEENAGERS, WHO WERE JUST FREELANCERS WITH THEIR PHONE, SCAMMING LONELY WESTERNERS.

THEY WERE LEARNING HOW TO DO THAT BY TALKING TO THEIR OLDER BROTHERS, OLDER FRIENDS, WHERE THEY COULD GET INFORMATION ON HOW TO TALK TO LONELY PEOPLE.

SO THERE WAS NOTHING, IT WAS JUST A BUNCH OF KIDS WITH PHONES.

>> WOW.

SO WHAT WAS THE ENVIRONMENT LIKE?

WHERE WERE THEY DOING THIS?

WHAT WAS THEIR KIND OF DAY-TO- DAY LIFE LIKE?

>> SO I FOCUSED THE BOOK, A MASSIVE CITY.

AND MOST OF THE BOYS I TALKED TO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A COMMUNITY WHERE MOST OF THE PEOPLE THERE OR SOME OF THE PEOPLE THERE STRUGGLED TO EAT SOMETIMES, ESPECIALLY IN AN EPIDEMIC WHERE INFLATION HIT HARD.

AND THESE BOYS SPENT MOST OF THE NIGHTS, "WORKING" AS THEY WOULD CALL IT BECAUSE THEY ARE TALKING TO AMERICANS ONLINE.

BECAUSE OF THE TIME ZONE, THEY HAVE TO SPEND THEIR NIGHTS AWAKE, TALKING TO MEN AND WOMEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE OCEAN.

SO THEY SPEND THEIR MORNINGS SLEEPING, AND THEN SOMETIMES THEY SMOKE DRUGS TO KEEP AWAKE.

OBVIOUSLY THEY ALSO SPENT THE MONEY THEY SCAMMED, THEY GET FROM THESE VICTIMS.

>> WHEN YOU SAY THEY SPENT THE MONEY THEY SCAMMED, HOW MUCH MONEY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

I MEAN, YOU COULD TALK ABOUT INDIVIDUAL CASES, THEN KIND OF EXTRACT HOW BIG OF A PROBLEM THIS IS?

>> SO FOR EXAMPLE IN ONE OF THE CHARACTERS I FOLLOWED, HE'S A 14-YEAR-OLD BOY WHO CAME FROM THE VILLAGE.

HIS MOM SELLS FRUIT ON THE STREET MAKING $2 A DAY.

OF COURSE, THE LITTLE BOY DOESN'T REALLY KNOW ABOUT THE SO-CALLED WESTERN WORLD THAT HE LEARNS FROM OLDER PEOPLE HOW TO TALK TO, FOR EXAMPLE, A TRUCK DRIVER IN CALIFORNIA.

HE STRUGGLES A LOT GETTING MONEY FROM THESE VICTIMS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO TALK TO THEM.

BUT THE FIRST $5 HE GETS, HE COMMISSION FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE, AND HE BUYS RICE AND CHICKEN, WHICH IS TEN TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE THAN WHAT HIS MOM HAD GIVEN HIM THAT MORNING.

NOW, THAT IS ONE CASE THAT SHOWS HOW POOR SOME OF THESE YOUNG BOYS ARE.

IN OTHER CASES WHEN THEY GET MORE MONEY BECAUSE THEY'RE VICTIMS WHO MIGHT SEND HUNDREDS, IF NOT, THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

THEY GO TO CLUBS, THEY GO TO HOTELS, AND THEY SPLURGE THE MONEY TO TELL THE COMMUNITY I MADE IT.

SO IN A WAY, IT IS ALSO VERY CONNECTED TO HIS STATUS.

>> SO TELL ME ABOUT HOW SOCIETY DEALS WITH THIS, RIGHT?

IT MUST NOT BE A SECRET ON HOW THIS 14-YEAR-OLD OR 18-YEAR-OLD ARE MAKING SO MUCH MONEY THAT THEY COULD BUY HUGE BOTTLE SERVICE IN A CLUB.

WHAT DO THE PARENTS THINK?

WHAT DO SOCIETY THINK?

BECAUSE THERE IS ALSO AN ECONOMIC RIPPLE EFFECT OF THOSE DOLLARS?

>> THEY AGREE TO THE TENSION.

WORD YAHOO TO A NIGERIAN.

I FEEL 50% OF THE PEOPLE ARE COMPLETELY AGAINST IT AND THE OTHER 50 HAVE THEIR RESERVATIONS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY MIGHT MENTION COLONIALISM OR SLAVERY.

SOME OF THE CAUSES IN A WAY THAT CREATED THE CURRENT NIGERIA CITIES.

AT THE SAME TIME, THESE MONEY, AS YOU SAID, HAVE RIPPLE EFFECTS.

BECAUSE THESE SCAMMERS, 18, 20, 25, THEY GET THEIR MONEY.

AROUND THEM, THE WHOLE COMMUNITY IS TRYING TO GET THEIR SHARE OF THE PIE AS WELL.

AND YOU HAVE BOUTIQUE STORES, HOTEL OWNERS, EVEN POLICE OFFICERS, ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE TRYING TO GET THAT MONEY FROM THAT BOY WHO JUST WANTS TO SHARE IT OR AT LEAST WANTS TO BRAG ABOUT HIS ILLICIT GAINS.

AND I THINK IT CREATES THE SORT OF TENSION WHERE THE COMMUNITY IN THE SHORT TERM IS RECEIVING MONEY, THAT IN A WAY MIGHT END UP IN BEING PAID FOR SCHOOL FEES OR FEES FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

BUT IN THE LONG TERM, IT IS DETRIMENTAL FOR THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THESE YOUNG PEOPLE END UP WITHOUT LEARNING ANY TRADE.

>> WHAT ARE THE CUSTOMERS OVERSEAS FROM THE UNITED STATES, ENGLAND, WHATEVER.

WHAT DO THEY NEED?

WHY ARE THEY WILLING TO ENGAGE IN THESE FALSE RELATIONSHIPS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> SO WHENEVER I TALK TO THE YAHOO BOYS, A 30-YEAR-OLD MAN.

HE WOULD MENTION ALL THE TIME THE SAME WORD.

ATTENTION.

YOU HAVE TO GIVE THE CLIENTS BECAUSE THEY CALL THEIR VICTIMS CLIENTS.

YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM ATTENTION.

AND AFTER A LOT OF HOURS TALKING TO THESE SCAMMERS, YOU KNOW, I TALKED TO MORE THAN 50 OF THEM.

YOU REALIZE THAT THESE ARE NOT VERY SOPHISTICATED SCAMMERS OR MASTERMINDS.

ACTUALLY, THEY ARE JUST THERE ALL THE TIME.

THEY KNOW THAT SOMETIMES SAYING HOW IS YOUR DAY?

BREAKFAST?

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TODAY IS MORE POWERFUL THAN SENDING THESE VERY BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE.

IT MADE ME THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT IS THE KEY POINT OF THE BOOK.

HOW LONELY SOME PEOPLE ARE IN THE WESTERN WORLD THAT THESE 14-YEAR-OLD BOY WHO HAS NEVER LEFT IN HIS LIFE, IS ABLEIST GET SOME MONEY FOR THE VICTIM.

AND I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT THE BLAME ON THE INDIVIDUAL, THE VICTIM.

BUT SOCIETY AROUND THE VICTIM.

>> YOU'RE KIND OF POINTING OUT THERE'S A MASSIVE DEMAND INFRASTRUCTURE OF PEOPLE THAT ARE LONELY.

I WONDER IF SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE KNOW THIS IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE?

BUT THEY STILL LIKE THE CONNECTION WITH ANOTHER PERSON.

I MEAN, YOUR MOM WAS RECEPTIVE TO THE IDEA THAT THIS IS A SCAMMER.

HERE IS THE PROOF.

BUT SOMETIMES WHEN YOU POINT THAT OUT TO PEOPLE, THEY SEEM TO ACTIVELY IGNORE IT?

>> I HAVE THE SCAMMERS TELLING ME, I WAS SCAMMING THE VICTIM, AND THE POLICE WENT TO HER OR HIS HOUSE.

AND THE POLICE TOLD THEM, YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED, AND THE VICTIM TOLD THE SCAMMER AND THE POLICE CAME, BUT I BELIEVE YOU.

ALL THE SCAMMERS TOLD ME THEY KNOW THEIR VICTIMS.

THEY KNOW THEY'RE BEING SCAMMED, BUT THEY STILL TALK TO THEM.

OF COURSE, THE REALITY IS ALWAYS VERY COMPLEX.

FOR EXAMPLE, SHE SHARED WITH US, WITH MY BROTHERS AND ME.

SOME OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE SCAM BECAUSE I THINK SHE WAS DIVIDED.

AND DEFINITELY NOT ALL THE HUMAN CONNECTION AND ATTENTION.

I DO THINK THAT IS SOME OF THESE VICTIMS, THEY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

I ALSO TALKED TO VICTIMS, AND ONE OF THEM TOLD ME AND IS STILL TALKING TO MY BOY, EVEN THOUGH SHE KNEW THIS WAS A NIGERIAN SCAMMER.

HE PUT ME UNDER THE SPELL.

THEY MENTIONED THE WORD, SPELL.

I THINK CERTAINLY, THERE IS A BIT OF THAT.

>> YOU KNOW, IT IS INTERESTING THE CHILD, AT THE AGE OF 14, IS ABLE TO TAP IN TO WHAT IN AMERICA WE CONSIDER THE LONELINESS ACADEMIC.

THERE'S 52 MILLION ADULTS, YOU EXPERIENCE LONELINESS AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK.

HOW ARE WE NOT ABLE TO SEE EACH OTHER ON THE STREET?

AND HOW IS YOUR DAY?

YOU KNOW, CHECK IN WITH EACH OTHER, THE SOCIETY WE'RE IN.

HERE WE ARE USING THE INTERNET TO FIND THIS CONNECTION SOMEWHERE ELSE?

>> I HAD ONE NIGERIAN MAN WHO TELL ME YOU, AMERICANS, EVEN THOUGH I'M A SPANIARD.

HE SAID YOU WESTERNS HAVE ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD THAT HAVE NO SHOULDER TO CRY ON.

HERE IT IN NIGERIA, WE HAVE EVERYONE AROUND US, BUT WE HAVE NO MONEY.

AND I THINK IT IS THE CENTRAL PART OF THE BOOK.

IT IS QUITE SAD THESE PEOPLE EACH OTHER HAVE TO LIE TO THE OTHER PERSON TO GIVE THAT.

AND I THINK THAT WE ARE NOT REALLY AWARE OF HOW LONELY SOME OF THE PEOPLE AROUND US ARE THEY WERE IN RELATIONSHIPS.

IT IS NOT ONLY ABOUT ISOLATION.

I THINK IT IS CONNECTED TO THE GOLDEN AGE THEY BUILT TO MAKE AN ENORMOUS PROFIT AND TO KEEP US ENGAGED.

>> TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THE COSTS AND THE DANGERS, HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE SPENDING ON THIS, AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR LIVES?

>> IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO PUT NUMBERS TO THIS.

FOR EXAMPLE, AUTHORITIES SAY THESE KIND OF SCAMS ARE REPORTED ONLY BY 5% OF THE VICTIMS BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF SHAME INVOLVED.

SO THE CONSEQUENCE OF YOUR FAMILY OR THE WORLD THAT THEY WERE BEING SCAMMED.

WHAT A FOOL YOU ARE.

AND THE OTHER VICTIM SAID THIS IS THE SADDEST CRIME IN THE WORLD.

NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE MONEY YOU LOSE.

ACTUALLY PROBABLY THAT IS NOT THE BIGGEST CONCERN.

BECAUSE YOU BUILT AN UNDERSTANDING.

YOU THOUGHT THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE WAS A REAL PERSON.

IT IS VERY HARD FOR SOMEONE WHO IS NOT EXPERIENCING THAT WITH THE PERSON.

YES, YOU CAN IMAGINE THE PERSON YOU HAVE BEEN IN LOVE WITH FOR THE LAST TWO, THREE, TEN YEARS IS NOT THE PERSON HE OR SHE SAID THEY ARE.

THAT PUT YOU IN A VERY DIFFICULT POSITION, PSYCHOLOGICALLY AND MENTALLY.

>> ON THE SUPPLY SIDE, WE'VE SEEM TO HAVE THE LONELINESS EPIDEMIC THAT MIGHT LEAVE PEOPLE.

ON THE DEMAND SIDE OVER ON THE NIGERIAN FRONT.

YOU HAVE INCREDIBLE INEQUALITY AND POVERTY.

AND IT FEELS LIKE YOU WOULD DO ANYTHING TO PUT FOOD ON YOUR TABLE.

WHEN YOU SEE WHAT YOUR MOTHER MIGHT DO FOR A LIVING AND HOW LITTLE MONEY YOU GET AND HOW LITTLE BREAD SORT TO SPEAK YOU GET.

THIS ALTERNATIVE SEEMS LIKE, THIS IS ALMOST A VICTIMLESS CRIME.

I'M NOT ACTUALLY MURDERING ANYMORE.

I'M NOT ENGAGING IN GANG VIOLENCE.

I JUST HAVE TO SPEND SOME TIME ON MY PHONE.

>> THIS IS A PROBLEM OF GLOBALIZATION AND EXTREME INEQUALITY.

WHEN IN THE PAST, YOU WERE LIVING IN THE CITY THAT A LOT OF INEQUALITY.

IN THE LONG RUN, EITHER IT WAS GOING TO LEAD TO SOCIAL STABILITY OR TO CONTROL THAT.

WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE INTERNET IS SUDDENLY THESE PEOPLE IN NIGERIA, THEY COULD ALSO HAPPEN IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.

THEY WOULD HAVE A WINDOW INTO OUR REACHES.

MAYBE THEY ARE NOT BURNING BRIDGES BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET TO AMERICA.

BUT THEY ARE TALKING TO LONELY PEOPLE AND THEY ARE SCAMMING THEM.

AND CERTAINLY THEY ALSO -- THE AFTERSHOCKS OF COLONIALISM AND SLAVERY AND THE EMPIRE CREATING A COUNTRY OUT OF NETWORK.

SO IN THE BOOK, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE THESE CHARACTERS WHO IS THE BIGGEST GRANDFATHER WHO WOULD HAVE TO DRESS UP AS A WOMAN, DURING THE CIVIL WAR, THAT IN A WAY WAS ALSO IMPACTED BY WEST AFRICA.

SO IT IS A PART OF THE BIGGEST GRANDFATHER, TO DRESS UP AS A WOMAN TO THE CIVIL WAR.

AND 60 YEARS LATER, HIS GRANDSON IS ALSO DRESSING UP AS A WOMAN, ALL NIGHT.

>> FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THAT IS THE STUFF THAT CAME AROUND IN THE 19 THE 0s.

IN YOUR BOOK, YOU'LL GO BACK INTO THE HISTORY OF SCAMMING NIGERIA, AND YOU GO WAY FURTHER.

WHAT IS THAT?

>> WELL, FOR ME, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO TRACE BACK THE SCAMS IN WEST AFRICA.

HIGHLIGHTING THE POINT THAT THERE IS NOTHING NIGERIAN ABOUT THESE SCAMS.

BUT THE HISTORICAL CONDITIONS THAT LED TO THE SCAMS ARE IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE WEST AFRICANS SO TERRIFIED BY THE MAN IN THE EARLY 20th CENTURY WHEN THEY GOT THERE AND THEY FOOLED SOME OF THE LOCALS WITH FAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO GET THEIR LAND.

SOME OF THE LOCALS WOULD DRESS UP AS THE WHITE MAN WITH THEIR CLOTHES, PRETENDING TO BE SOMEONE BEING SENT BY THE BRITISH EMPIRE.

THEY WOULD STEAL GRAINS AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS TO THE COMMUNITY, NOT TO THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES, BUT THE OTHER COMMUNITIES.

TIME THEY DID THIS KIND OF ROUSE, IT WAS THE RESULT OF COLONIALISM.

YOU KNOW?

WE SHOULDN'T FORGET THAT COLONIALISM HAS ALSO THIS KIND OF WEIRD AFTERSHOCKS.

AND IN A WAY THIS IS ALSO THE RESULT OF WHAT WE DID 100 YEARS AGO, 200 YEARS AGO.

I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS JUST ONE DIMENSIONAL COST.

TRYING TO UNDERSTAND ALL THE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS THAT WILL DRIVE THEM TO DO SUCH A HORRIFIC ACT.

I THINK WE SHOULD DESERVE THE SAME KIND OF SYMPATHY TO PEOPLE.

>> IN 2025 THERE WERE MORE THAN 23,000 COMPLAINTS OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF CONFIDENCE AND ROMANCE CRIMES THAT WERE FILED IN THE U.S.

THESE CRIMES COST, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LOST ALMOST A BILLION DOLLARS.

WHY DO YOU THINK THESE CRIMES HAVE BECOME SO PREVALENT?

>> IT IS A DIFFICULT QUESTION THAT I DO THINK THE MAIN REASON IS THAT, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO THE WHOLE ANSWERS.

FOR ME, IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY MY MOM HAD FALLEN FOR THIS.

SO MAYBE THESE YOUNG BOYS WHO ARE GETTING THE MONEY CAN EXPLAIN TO ME WHY SUDDENLY THOUSANDS, NOT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF WESTERNERS ARE SENDING THE MONEY TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER MET IN THEIR REAL LIVES.

AND THEY THINK BACK TO THE IDEA OF ATTENTION.

YOU KNOW, I WOULD THROW THEM THE WORD LONELINESS THAT THEY COULD THROW ME BACK THE WORD OF ATTENTION.

BUT ALL OF US, WE ARE SPENDING SO MUCH TIME ON OUR DEVICES AND OUR PHONES.

THE SAME WAY THE YAHOO BOYS ARE COMPETING FOR THE VICTIMS' ATTENTION.

I DO THINK WHEN I LOOK AT MY MOM, I LOOK AT THE PEOPLE I LOVE.

SOMETIMES I FEEL I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME FOR THEM.

I WONDER WHERE IS THAT TIME GOING?

SO SPECIFICALLY AFTER THE PANDEMIC, A LOT OF PEOPLE I THINK THEY DO FEEL COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED FROM SOCIETY.

AND THEY ARE JUST, BY TALKING TO THESE PEOPLE, THEY ARE TRYING TO FILL A VOID THAT WE'VE, WE'VE DECIDED THAT WE WERE NOT GOING TO FEEL AS PARTNERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, OR CHILDREN.

>> CARLOS, THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOK CALLED THE YAHOO BOYS.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

IT WAS A PLEASURE.

>>> AND FINALLY, JUNE BRINGS ITS SIGNATURE BURST OF COLOR AS CITIES AROUND THE WORLD CELEBRATE PRIDE MONTH.

IN BUDAPEST, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE JOINED THE CITY'S PARADE, MARKING A NEW ERA OF OPENNESS FOR HUNGARYS' LGBTQ COMMUNITY.

VICTOR ORBAG WHO TRIED TO BAN THE PARADE LAST YEAR WAS VOTED OUT OF OFFICE IN APRIL, ALLOWING FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AT THIS YEAR'S FESTIVITIES.

>> ATMOSPHERE IN THE COUNTRY IS MUCH MORE RELAXED THAN LAST YEAR.

LAST YEAR BY THE PROTESTS, MORE OR LESS.

BUT THIS YEAR, IT'S THE CELEBRATION OF FREEDOM.

>> IT IS MORE FREE, IT IS MORE ACCESSIBLE BY THE GOVERNMENT.

>> YEAH, LAST YEAR THEY TRIED TO SHUT IT DOWN.

WHAT I WOULD SAY WAS IN THE SPIRIT OF PRIDE.

>> AND THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY IN INDIA, COMMUNITIES CAME TOGETHER IN A VIBRANT PROTEST TO DEMAND INCLUSIVITY.

WHETHER IT IS CELEBRATING WITH MARK CARNEY ON THE STREETS OF TORONTO OR MARCHING THROUGH NEW YORK CITY HONORING THE LEGACY OF 1969 STONEWALL RIOTS, PRIDE HAS BEEN FRONT AND CENTER FOR MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE GLOBE.

HAPPY PRIDE MONTH ALL.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.