Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in to the point are those of the hosted, the program and its guests.

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Doni: From outside the LGBTQ community.

It would appear that the workplace is becoming an easier place to be from inside that same community.

The view is a bit different.

Only 17% of LGBTQ employees strongly agree that their organization cares about their well-being.

So why does this matter?

Or should it matter at all?

Should companies be investing in LGBTQ affirming workplaces?

Join me as we discuss this issue with LGBTQ affirming and subject matter Specialist Sheena Barnes.

I'm Doni Miller and this is to the point.

Connect with us on our social media pages.

You may email me at doni _miler@wgte.org, for this episode and other additional extras, please go to dwgte.org/to the point.

I am thrilled to have one of my great friends and amazing community activist Sheena Barnes with me this morning.

We are going to talk about specifically creating gender affirming workspaces, but I need to tell you, all of you out there that if you want it done, this is the woman that you need to call.

She's a member of the TPS School Board, an activist for all issues that impact humanity, specifically those that deal with LGBTQ.

Plus, I set the Q and not the.

Sheena: Yeah, you can say it's LGBTQ, say LGBT plus class.

Doni: Okay, I will try and remember that, but just amazingly skilled and talented.

And I'm so happy and pleased to have you with us today.

Sheena: Thank you so much for having me.

And I'm just so happy that we can talk about this important topic and how it's affecting our community and the communities across the country and what some things we can do here and locally.

And Lucas County.

Doni: Yeah, so you heard the intro and in the intro, I mean, the statistics are pretty appalling to me.

17% of folks feel as though their workplaces don't care about their well-being.

Another 21% of LGBTQ folks feel as though if their organizations were challenged, they wouldn't do.

They would do the right thing.

Only 21% felt their organizations would do the right thing.

It's a it's an epidemic.

I think of feeling lack of value, lack of value by that community.

Sheena: And unfortunately, the sadder part is if that person or individual, as in other marginalized communities, like as race or religion or disability, those numbers actually go lower.

And so that's the complexity that a lot of community members of the LGBTQ class is facing, of being heard in the work space, being welcomed in the workspace.

And that's where just ex-cons learn to help.

That happens.

X Yes, X A stands for affirming consulting, trainings and services.

We do more than just trainings.

We actually provide speakers.

We do also assessments of diversity, equity and inclusion.

And we also walk with you on the journey.

I mean, everybody is not going to learn overnight, so we're there for the long haul.

Doni: But aren't things better?

That's what everyone thinks.

Sheena: Yes, things have gotten better.

We have gotten marriage equality, but we are still in the fight right now.

Across the country, there are more than 500 anti-LGBT laws that's coming from legislation that impacts not only the work space, but schools and communities for individuals who identify as LGBT, LGBT plus.

Doni: So let's talk about something I think that people would think would be obvious they would know the answer to Why is this so hard?

Why is this particular change so difficult?

Sheena: I think is the lack of access to knowledge.

And so when you don't have knowledge only, that's based on facts, it's fear and it's people have said fear of ignorance or whatever, but I think is the access to knowledge.

And this is a topic where people don't want to be offensive, so they don't ask questions, they don't talk about it, and therefore nothing gets resolved.

And so we create a space that we can have those conversations.

You can ask those questions, make sure you have the best terminology, knowledge provided, so we can start having those conversations to move policies and procedures for the work space and more so affirming places.

Doni: You know, the other thing that I thought was really interesting in my research on this, on this particular issue of affirming workspaces was that they're the number of folks who identify as LGBTQ class has doubled in a in a very, very short period of time.

It is twice today what it was just five years ago.

Sheena: Yes, we always been here, but now we're a little bit more safer.

Doni: Safe.

And yes, well, yes.

Sheena: When you have spaces where people are welcomed and provided safety to disclose their identity, you will see more people be themselves.

And so that's why you see more people in the community.

We're not just making up numbers.

We have always been there.

We've been there since the start of this this land, and we have been in policies, we have been in procedures, we have been in businesses.

But unfortunately, at those times and sometimes even today is not as safe or welcoming to come out and disclose your identity.

Doni: So you don't have to personalize if you don't want to this particular question.

But I want to ask you something that I think that people need to know about.

First of all, you identify.

Sheena: Yes, I am identify as bisexual, queer.

That means I am romantically, emotionally and also physically attracted to male, adult and female adults.

Doni: Okay.

What does it feel like personally, you or or folks that you know when people are not accepting of that, what what's that feel like to have to be concerned about how people are going to respond to you when you walk into a room?

Sheena: Yes, I wouldn't say I will speak for the whole community because we all have lived different lived experience.

But personally, I have felt that.

And it's a fear.

It's you don't know the harm if it's going to be emotionally, mentally or physically.

And then if you have younger children, the impact to them and you're always questioning, will these people start isolating me?

Will I still be included into functions that bring me joy or will now I just face harm on threats?

Would I even be able to be me in this space any longer?

And so usually folks just don't show up anymore.

And so those spaces, if they have to continually question is, am I safe mentally, emotionally and physically to be who I am?

Doni: Yeah.

And the impact, I don't think that people really understand the impact of exclusion.

Sheena: Yes.

When people are excluded and we're seeing it right now in the work spaces, when you don't have a farming laws and businesses and practices, we relocate, we find where our families are going to be safe, where we're going to be safe to thrive.

And we're seeing a big exodus right now, like in Florida, just because of things that are not affirming in that space.

And so businesses are going to suffer.

The communities are going to suffer because you're losing that population, you losing those employees, but you're actually losing the people that you serve, which are your products or your services.

So it's very impactful to the business aspect, the community.

But individually, if we don't have a farming spaces, eventually we won't go anywhere.

Doni: Right?

And I know that this this whole idea of developing or helping businesses develop affirming spaces is right up your alley.

I know it's what you're passionate about, but I want to ask you, what made you angry enough to do this?

Sheena: Well, it was once again the lack of conversation when I stepped down from being the director of Equality Toledo.

I kind of reflect and one of the things we did in our trainings, we didn't talk about race and intersectionality of race and disability within the LGBT community and how that also create more barriers and how sometimes employees will say, Hey, I'm using the pronouns on my email, but still using other microaggressions.

And so I thought to myself, How can I make a platform to address everything of my identity?

But the multiple identities in the LGBT community with honest, honest facts and also authenticity?

And so I created just X because I want to make sure our community and our businesses of serving people to the high quality that they do, but with information to help them even do a better grade.

Doni: And I, I know that people are uncomfortable with the conversation, but I've never been able to figure out why they're uncomfortable with the conversation.

Sheena: I think is the unknown and how that person will respond.

And we see a lot where sometimes somebody will miss gender, someone or get the wrong pronouns and they feel attacked.

But when you have nothing else to control, that's the one thing you can't control.

And oftentimes when you do have a person who's openly LGBT, plus they are the go to for all the answers and that get exhausting to.

So it kind of goes both ways.

Doni: How can you be the only black person?

Sheena: Exactly.

And we both know how that is.

And so what you do is how can you create a room where people can ask questions in a safe space, but also the people who are of the community can respond safely.

And that's what we created.

Just acts we want you that get it wrong with us.

You can get it right in the community, get it right in the workspace.

Doni: Get it wrong with you, but get it right.

Sheena: Yes, Those questions say that one story you want to tell everybody about that gay friend, because I can correct you and say, hey, that's that one individual story and they may not even want you sharing it.

How can we do better as allies and accomplices?

So make sure we create safe spaces.

And so by offering those safe spaces for both individuals in that situation, you start a conversation and that's what's needed to be have conversations.

You know, I love when people ask me, what did I have for breakfast versus how did I have children?

The old fashioned way.

But people think of stigmas and have ideologies about the LGBT community from our media, from how they was raised.

And they never unlearn those things.

And so we have to unlearn and challenge stereotypes and biases because that leads to harm through laws, but also through policies and practices that are not even ideology based on the actual individual.

Doni: Absolutely.

And as as trite as it may sound, the only way we get through this really tough work is to put it on the table.

Sheena: Yes.

Doni: Confronted squarely and talk.

Sheena: About we have to speak the truth and be the.

Doni: Truth.

That's exactly.

Sheena: And if you're saying your agency, this is all for me and welcoming, great.

But I want to see you in your policies.

I want to see you in your office is when I look at brochures, do I see myself?

Do I see my family?

How can I make sure that I am truly welcomed and not just by using my pronouns, but actually seeing me for who I am?

Doni: We're going to talk more about that when we come back.

You stay with me.

Sheena: Yes, absolutely.

Doni: All righty.

We'll be right back.

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Doni: Again, you can connect with us on our social media pages or as you know, you can email me at doni _miller@wgte.org.

We are talking to my friend Sheena Barnes who is the founder of just acts, LGBTQ plus affirming specialist.

When we left we were talking about, you know, the importance of confronting issues firmly and directly.

And and that's really important if you're going to do that in the workplace, you got to know how to manage it, right?

Correct.

That's where you guys come in.

Sheena: Yeah, that's where we come in.

We do assessment and we do an audit based on facts and things.

We build up from there and see how best it can get it.

The program works for you because every program is not going to work for everybody the same way.

Different things and different needs are need to be met in the resource works place in H.R., Maybe you're trying to build a ERG, or maybe you're just trying to have an event that's more welcoming, inclusive, so different things are addressed when we do the audit of what that company goal is and then we walk them through the process.

Doni: Okay.

Yeah.

And why?

Why should companies I mean, what what's their benefit?

Sheena: The benefit of doing employee retention?

That's the one thing that we have seen with agencies and businesses that works with us.

You have employees who want to stay longer because they actually do feel welcomed, they do feel seen, and they do feel like a part of the family in the workspace.

And that lowers your cost for turnover, trying to hire new people and things like that.

But also insurance policies decrease because now you have met them needs versus advocating for something that's not on the table.

You are more inclusive to the policy.

So therefore is no need to have extra funding and extra assessments when you already have everything in the package that is needed for each individual.

Doni: And you know, the reality and this is this may sound a little harsh and a little insensitive, but the reality is like the world is in your face.

Yeah, employers and you might as well deal with it.

Yeah.

Whether you like it or not.

Sheena: Just because someone is not out doesn't mean they're not.

Doni: There.

That's exactly.

Sheena: And so we have to address that because I may not know who is LGBTQ identified.

I may not even even heard their name, but I know theirs is.

I know they're in your workspace, I know they're in the community and what do they do?

Doni: And they don't have an obligation to tell, you.

Sheena: Know, they should not.

Doni: They should.

Sheena: Not.

You should never ask somebody to disclose their identity because we don't walk around asking people who are heterosexual, I'm sorry, are you seeing only women because you're male, identify person or we don't do those things.

And so that's one of the things that we have to unlearn when we interact or serve the LGBTQ community because if we don't do it for our heterosexual or cisgender folks, why are we doing it for anyone else?

Exactly.

And so we have to unlearn that.

And that's one of the practices that we walk through as well, is would you ask somebody how they had kids right anywhere?

Just insensitive.

So why do it when someone disclose their identity?

Doni: I can't help but say this because I know.

I know better.

I know better.

I cannot believe someone actually asks.

Sheena: Yeah, people are usually fascinated about a particular life, part of my life that has nothing to do with my qualifications, my education, or how I show up in the community.

But that's what some most of us in the community have been reduced to is what we do behind our own bedroom doors, which is nobody's business, because once again, would you ask that of anybody else's?

Doni: Exactly, Yes.

So how long is the training typically?

Does it depend on the size of the company?

Depends on the amount of work to be done.

Sheena: It depends on the needs.

We meet the needs.

Some people are okay with starting the process of our training or our speaking engagements to see whether staff is at and was comfortable and then go from there.

You can also request a four hour training.

Will we go in depth about the history, current laws and policies that may affect your agencies and employees and how you can show up to be an active ally?

And that is very important because once again, it's great that you're doing the first two steps, but if you don't even know our history, then you don't understand why the hurt and harm is there and why some people may react the way they do.

When you acts or certain question or promote a certain thing only for to get likes.

Doni: You know, one of the things I said to you when when we were talking about this show is that I don't like that moniker LGBTQ friendly.

It's like saying black folks welcome.

Yeah, it's that same, same sort of thing.

Yeah.

Do you feel about.

Sheena: As great that you think you're friendly, but are you asserting?

Are you welcoming?

That means you tolerate me only until well to where you are comfortable.

And I don't say I'm straight people friendly.

I mean, once again, are we doing it for all, you know.

Doni: Community to just be a part of your business culture?

Sheena: Exactly.

Are we saying we're just disabled, community friendly?

No, because we are then seeing the human in that community.

And so for some reason, when it comes to the LGBT community, we lose our humanity from folks.

And it was like, no, we're we're human.

We're you know, I'm a black woman, I am a mother.

I am so much more.

And I happen to identify as LGBTQ.

Plus, that's it.

But when you don't see that as a part of me, as a part of my humanness, then you don't have respect for me.

You don't value me, and then you become just friendly.

Doni: I'm like.

Sheena: Yes.

Doni: Guys, So how's Toledo doing?

How are we doing as a city?

Sheena: As a city, we are doing wonderful.

Our ACR scores with our Human Relations Commission scores are great for those who are identified in the LGBT community, 65 and up for seniors.

I say Southside and pepper lovers.

So there are more retirees moving here because we have created spaces in the elderly communicate community.

We have to do more work.

We always have to do more work to make sure we are looking at our youth, at our single folks, and just trying to make sure all our spaces are inclusive and welcoming.

So I would say we are great, but we can always get better.

Doni: Are we doing a good job with our kids?

Sheena: We are, but we need to definitely step up.

Like I said, right now we have roughly 500 or so anti LGBT laws across the country.

Even in Ohio, we are battling roughly 12 that attacks some type of gender identity or gender confirming identity.

Right now we see that our trans and non-binary gender conforming, which means they don't identify with either gender includes those who have been birth with to sexual reproductive organs.

They are really under attack.

And so we have to make sure that our voices are heard, that we are protecting all our youth in Ohio and in Lucas County as well.

Doni: Okay.

So, all right.

Yes, I'm going to I'm going to give you a myth.

Sheena: Oh, I love.

Doni: Those are you going to tell me what you think?

And then you're going to tell me the one that you hate the most of everything that you've always heard.

Heard.

So you think about that?

Yes.

Thinking about it.

So here's the man.

Gay couples will indoctrinate a hetero.

Let's.

You're laughing.

I don't even have it out yet.

Yes.

A heterosexual child to be homosexual.

Sheena: I know plenty of people like my parents who are both straight.

My mom and dad raised me and a great family home.

And guess what?

Here I am.

So that is not how it works.

No one can raise or train or teach someone a gender identity or sexual orientation to be that identity for themselves.

Once again, if we flip it, can we teach somebody how to be straight?

Can we Any doctor, somebody how to be straight?

Television books do not have that power.

If I could, I would teach my son to take a shower regularly.

So therefore I can't do anything else with his identity.

He has to disclose that to me once he knows for himself.

Doni: Yes.

So what do you hear that makes you just lose your mind?

Sheena: Oh, that.

The fact that we're making everybody gay.

I love that.

I'm just like, okay, how is that possible?

And then the argument goes into what is the cartoons?

The cartoons are making the kids gay.

And I go, Well, I watched the Ninja Turtles.

I was like, Oh, maybe is Rainbow Brite?

That might be why.

Doni: I go.

Sheena: You know?

And when we put so much emphasis of power behind media, that changed to somebody is like, well, what are we doing as parents, as community leaders, as teachers?

We are responsible for how we see the kids and we should show them that they are love no matter how they identify versus trying to say, Someone made you this way.

I was born this way.

It just took me a long time to fight for who I am to be who I am.

Doni: And you know what the I was born this way.

When people say that it all to me, it always sounds like it.

Not specific.

Yes.

When you said it, it's not a lesbian.

No, not a let's me this normal.

Yeah, I mean it.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Sheena: Well, when we are having conversations about LGBT rights and spaces, we are really advocating that you see us as humans.

So by I think by saying born this way is like, this is me, me.

And so and.

Doni: That's what people should.

Yeah, they shouldn't.

Here I am less than.

Sheena: Correct or I am different.

Doni: I am different.

Sheena: Because I get up and I yell at my kids to go to school just like everybody.

And you know, and usually I am missing the bus like everybody else and I have to get coffee in the morning or it's a bad day for me like everybody else.

Doni: And being in love for you is the same as being in love.

Sheena: Yes.

We want we want healthy relationships.

We want relationships that are promoting that love and quality like anybody else.

There's no difference.

There's no asterisks and there's nothing besides who we're marrying is just different from, quote unquote, the norm.

Right.

And once we get to the point of you are just another human being, a neighbor, a mother employee, a father, a person of a family, then we can sit there and say, okay, now we are affirming.

Right now we have gotten to the place where I don't need to know your sexual orientation and gender identity to respect you less or more.

I just need to respect you as a human.

Doni: Yeah.

I'm so glad you came.

I am to.

To talk with you.

You're going to come back and we're going to talk.

Sheena: Definitely.

Doni: Some more.

Thank you.

We are going to put she knows contact information on our website.

Thank you so much for joining us and I will see you next time.

On to the Point.

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