Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in to the point are those of the hosted, the program and its guests.

They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of WGTE public media.

Doni: It is estimated that more than one in five US adults or roughly 58 million people live with a mental illness.

Despite that stigma, misunderstanding and in some areas a significant lack of resources continues.

Mental illness should not be treated any differently than physical illness, but it is, of course, the reasons why are important.

But more important is understanding as best we can what communities and each of us must do to help in the journey forward.

I am Doni Miller and welcome To the Point.

Please connect with us on our social media pages.

You may email me at doni _miller@wgte.org for this episode and other additional extras wgte.org/To the point I am so excited this morning.

This whole discussion of living with mental illness is so significant and we have two of our community's best best advocates with us this morning.

We have Leslie Miller, who's a long term mental health advocate, and Bill Anheuser from UNISON UNISON Health.

Welcome, both.

You know, Leslie, it was such a pleasure to talk to you.

And I found this quote that made me think about you, like for the rest of the day after we talked.

And this is what it says.

I'm not ashamed for people to know what I've been through.

I'm proud of what I've become.

Absolutely.

And when I talked to you, it was so clear that despite your journey, maybe because of your journey, you have become this remarkably resilient and independent person who has a really loud voice when it comes to advocating for mental health issues.

Would you tell folks a little bit about who you are?

Leslie: And like I said, my name is Leslie and I live with a mental illness.

I live with complex post-traumatic stress disorder, which encompasses a lot of different symptoms.

My symptoms range from depression to anxiety to flashbacks.

And I live with an eating disorder, and I struggle with those issues every single day.

But what that means for me is that my recovery is progressive.

It's not linear.

I don't go straight up in terms of my recovery.

It looks more like this.

It's up and down.

And so what recovery looks like to me is going to be different than what it looks like for someone else on a mental health journey.

So what made you decide to become such a vocal advocate?

I mean, you're everywhere.

Doni: You're I hear you're extremely active in Wood county and mental health issues and what made you decide to talk about this.

I saw the need.

I saw that people's voices needed to be heard.

I saw that they needed to have support, that they needed to have judgment, free zones.

And so I decided to start speaking up and not being ashamed about what my mental health journey looks like.

Leslie: And the more I spoke up, the more other people were able to speak up.

If just one other person can talk about their mental health journey, then what I've done is enough.

Bill: How you can say Leslie's courage to be vocal is it's addictive, in a way.

Right.

So the more she talks about it, she really lights up a room.

She really communicates, I think, very, very well about what it means to live with the struggle of mental health.

And and I notice whenever we're out together and we're talking to audiences, that folks will come up to her afterwards, will come up to me afterwards and really start to dialog, which is really what, though the whole point of this is, is to break down those barriers of stigma that prevents people from talking about their mental health issues or even being aware or recognizing that maybe it impacts their friends or family, more importantly, that they can they know that they can reach out and get help.

Doni: Yeah, you're absolutely right.

One of the things that has always perplexed me is that it's like we were saying before the show, if your kidney decides to explode, nobody holds you responsible for it.

And you go to the doctor and that's that about that.

But we don't have permission to have our our behavior influenced by perhaps something that's a little bit off balance.

Maybe our hormones are not working correctly around post-partum depression.

We talked about that.

Or maybe there's something that's just a little bit akimbo when it comes to the way our brains are functioning.

Why is that?

Why is mental health treated differently than physical health?

Leslie: I think first it's invisible.

You can't look at someone and say they're mentally ill and the symptoms range so much that it's difficult for people to talk about what it is they're experiencing because other people want to equate medical illness to what's going on.

When it's not a medical illness, it's a mental illness, it's a brain dysfunction.

It's okay if our heart doesn't function.

Okay, everyone, everyone.

You go to the doctor, you get a prescription, you get rehabilitation.

But when you're mentally ill, it takes time to find right medications.

It takes time to find the right treatment providers.

It takes time to navigate the mental health system.

And that can be very challenging for people.

Doni: Yeah, and I certainly want to talk about that before we go.

And Bill, you're going to help us through the discussion about navigating the mental health system, which can which can be a challenge.

But but again, mental illness is one of those things that somehow people hold us responsible for.

They make it our fault.

Why do you think that is?

Bill: You know, I, I think that we always want to look to there has to be a reason for something, right.

So we want to look for and and and it's, I think, with physical health issues.

So if I have a broken arm, I can point to it.

I can say I fell.

And that's why I have this broken arm and it hurts.

And everyone can see it.

It's obvious.

And I go get that treated, I think with, you know, used the word invisible.

It's very subtle, too.

It sneaks up on you.

Right.

So you may not even recognize that it's a mental health issue.

Right.

Early on.

Right.

So maybe you're just having a difficult time getting out of bed or, you know, you're watching a Kit-Kat commercial and you start to cry and wonder why.

Right.

And you're starting to maybe socially isolate from your friends and family and you don't realize that there's that that it's impacting your life, your ability to socialize with others, go to work, go to school.

And it's not until things, you know, kind of build up that you start recognizing, hey, maybe I'm having some difficulties and maybe this is a mental health issue.

Oftentimes it's just, well, I'm lazy or we have this internal dialog with ourselves.

It's constantly being critical, right?

Right.

Just get up and go do something.

You're being lazy or, you know, so we do it to ourselves and then there, because we do it to ourselves.

Sometimes we don't know what the inner experiences of other people.

It's very easy to judge, unfortunately.

I mean, we're all I wish we weren't judgmental, but I think that's kind of our default as human beings to be be judgmental.

And in that, I think, unfortunately, it leads to people not reaching out, getting help, or not even recognizing that what they have is.

Doni: A mental is a mental illness.

Bill: Again, with.

Doni: Leslie, when did you decide that sitting on the couch or laying on the couch was more than just relaxing?

Leslie: When I was approaching two years of sitting on the couch, I spent a significant amount of time isolating and laying on my couch and sleeping throughout the day and not getting anything else done.

I wasn't functioning.

It was impairing my ability to eat.

It was impairing my ability to sleep.

It was too much.

I knew I was in trouble and that's when I looked for help.

Who did you talk to first?

Who did I talk to first?

I talked to Crisis Services first.

I made a phone call.

Wayne County has some very good crisis services in place, and I was able to make a phone call and talk to someone and figure out what I needed to do next.

Doni: Do you remember what you said to them?

You took this deep breath and in this phone, What did you say to them?

I said, I'm in trouble.

Leslie: I knew that within a day I would be suicidal.

I knew that I needed help and I went directly to an emergency room where I waited, by the way, for 36 hours for a bed.

I waited for transportation.

This is a story I tell frequently.

I was in crisis.

I'm already having anxiety attacks.

I'm already experiencing depression, and now I'm in your emergency room needing a psychiatric bed because my medications need changed because I need to get stable again.

And now I'm sitting in your emergency room waiting for 36 hours for a bed and transportation to get to that bed.

No other medical illness makes you wait to get your treatment?

Not that I'm aware of.

It's here.

Bill: And that's that's been a problem for a long time.

The system, the way that the mental health system is set up, is that we do have people that sit around for a long period of time and during that time, by the way, you're not really getting treatment for the reason that you're there.

You're just kind of in this holding pattern in and militating.

Doni: Is that though?

I mean, how it makes it worse, It makes it so much worse.

Bill: And the reality is, is that right now, you know, mental health issues are all up and the number of providers is actually not growing right at the same rate as the need is.

And so what that does is in the system is it shrinks the number of beds that are available for folks, because if you don't have staff to cover, then you have these longer waits.

And so, you know, I know that that incident specifically has tried to make some impact on that, not only through our mobile crisis team, but also we've just created a crisis stabilization unit in Wood County.

It's a 12 bed unit that is for folks that are doing well, those 12 that are experiencing that mental health crisis.

But it's it's also 12 beds that haven't been available prior.

And so for residents of Wood County, maybe we can take a little bit of that burden off of the folks here, Lucas County, because the hospitals here in they're serving a very large it's pretty much all of northwest Ohio.

And so, you know, if we can bring a couple of extra beds into that system and take some of that pressure off, it helps to decrease the length of wait and the length of time that people have to sit there waiting to get that treatment.

Doni: 36 hours.

So what made you stay in that chair for 36 hours?

Leslie: Because I desperately needed help.

And you knew that?

I knew that there are a lot of people that would have walked away by then.

That's why I'm asking.

And that's scary to me, because then they're going back home with their mental health symptoms and potentially taking action on those symptoms.

And that's scary to me.

So in your in your journey, the darkest time, if you think back to the darkest time, what do you what did you wish in that moment was available for you?

I wish I had a place to go voluntarily where I could get the support I needed to get back on my recovery journey.

I'm very dedicated to my recovery.

That doesn't mean that I don't have episodes where recovery is not clear.

I do.

I still have those episodes.

I still have symptoms.

But when I need the hospital, I need it to be available to me and I need it to be the least restrictive environment.

So what was happening before and I've been hospitalized several times is that I would be involuntarily admitted or pink slip.

Sure.

And that wasn't necessarily what I needed.

Like Bill said, now UNISON has bridge that gap with a crisis stabilization unit that's new to our community, and it's going to serve a need that's been been there for quite a while.

Doni: I want you to hold that thought.

Okay.

We're going to go away for just a minute.

We will be right back.

Jaden: We all live in a busy world, which makes it difficult for us to do things for ourselves, specifically for our mental health, which is why on this week's edition of On Point, I'm asking people, what do you do for your mental health?

What do you guys.

Do for your mental health?

Man: Definitely get out of the house.

I go to therapy, probably get out.

Definitely going on walks here.

I play hockey.

So playing sports, hang with friends, walking my dogs.

So yeah.

Woman: I do a lot of self-care like face masks and just like relaxing to myself, reading books.

Jaden: What do you do for your mental health?

Man: You're looking at a man.

I'm out here walking, getting some good energy and feels good.

Jaden: At one point this week, I'm Jaden Jefferson.

Doni: As always, you can connect with us on our social media pages and you can email me at doni _miller@wgte.org.

If you'd like to see this episode again or check out the other episodes that we have, please go to wgte.org/To the point we are talking today to the amazing Leslie Miller and the equally amazing Bill Emahiser.

Doni: Did I get it right?

That I did.

I did.

Okay, Good for me about the the complications and the the the stigma and the difficulty, but the courage and the bravery and the the rewards associated with going through the process of living with with mental illness.

I'd like to ask you, you know, Leslie's talked about the system really not responding as well as it should to meeting the needs of folks who are going through this journey.

What's taken us so long to get this right?

Bill: You know, I'm not sure.

I think really the I've been in the field now for 30 years and it's kind of it's been a slow burn to get to the point where we actually even have mobile crisis and quite local crisis lines.

I mean, those are relatively new within the last five years in Wood County as well as in Lucas County.

Thankfully, you know, the mental health boards you're in, Lucas County as well as in Wood County, have really stepped up and funded ops opportunities to connect with folks through those mobile crises, those 24 hour lines, so that if you are experiencing an issue at any point in time, you just pick up the phone and you'll get a licensed professional counselor or social worker.

Doni: 24 hours, Bill: 24 hours a. Doni: Day.

We've got those.

We've got those numbers on the screen.

If you'll take a look at that.

Wood County crisis, line 4195024673.

And there's a Lucas County care line that is 419 is that 904?

What's that number.

Bill: About?

9042273.

Doni: Thank you so much.

And you can call those numbers 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and you'll get someone that will help with that.

Bill: And the nice thing is it's all local.

These are local folks.

And in addition to that, if you need a higher level of care, somebody will actually come to your house or come to the community to meet you wherever that need is to to get that care in that moment.

Doni: So, Leslie, if you had if you had the opportunity to speak to thousands of people and make an impact on those thousands of people about there when it comes to their knowledge about mental health issues, what would you say to them?

I would first suggest that they educate themselves about mental health and about what the symptoms look like, what the coping skills look like.

Leslie: think that's the biggest battle is educating people, making sure that you know, what people are living with, being aware and then the the other big thing is just be kind because like I said earlier, it's invisible.

You don't know what I'm going through in this very moment.

I might be on the verge of an anxiety attack.

I might be having hallucinations, I might be delusional, but meeting people where they're at and being kind.

And I think it's important that Bill Bill mentioned that the resources that we have are now local.

It used to be that any time I was in crisis, I was being shipped off to Toledo, which is an urban environment.

I come from the country.

I am a country mouse.

Putting me in an urban environment is not therapeutic to me.

So the fact that we now have resources available at our own community, in our own community is important.

Bill: You would mention being kind right in I can tell you I've had an experience with many folks who told me that kindness was, was used.

In fact, in one case I had a woman that I spoke to after a hospitalization for suicidal ideation.

She had she had mentioned that it was a brief interaction.

Literally, she felt alone.

She felt invisible in the world.

And she her purse had capsized on in this four year area.

And everybody was just kind of stepping over her and walking past and just kind of confirmed her, I'm ready.

This is just proof that I need to die.

Nothing goes right.

I'm invisible.

And then this gentleman stops and he sees her and he gets on his hands and knees and helps her to put those items into her purse.

She he sees that she's crying, shakes her hand, asks her if she's okay, ask her what her name is.

Just a brief 45 second interaction.

He goes her way or he goes his way and she goes her.

When she said it was that interaction, that 45 second interaction of kindness that made her not take those pills and her life and instead pick up the phone and seek out help.

So being kind, yeah, we just I'm not suggesting that every time you interact with someone in your time that you're going to save somebody's life.

But we don't know the impact that we have on other people's lives when we interact with them.

And so kindness is so huge.

Yeah, so huge.

Doni: And that's what I would say if I had thousands of people listening to the sound of my voice and, you know, I do.

So be kind.

I mean, be kind, that is, we don't understand the impact that that has on life.

We don't understand and how that can change someone's course of action in 45 seconds, in 45 seconds.

So in addition to that, what don't people get about being mentally ill?

What is it they miss?

Bill: I think I think that the thing that I hear all the time is it's just in your head.

It's a figment.

It's just.

Doni: Absolutely.

Bill: Just it's again, it's back to the stigma that's your fault.

There's something wrong or defective with you in the reality is that's just simply not true.

And you know, there are there are, of course, medical diagnoses for what's happening with the person.

It's not all in your head.

I work with my area of expertise is anxiety disorders and people have panic attacks.

And the in that panic makes you feel like you are literally dying.

You have physiological a physiological response to that anxiety.

And what people think is, oh, you're just thinking it.

No, you're not just thinking it.

You are actually there's a physiological there's an emotional there's a psychological aspect to mental health issues.

And if if that's one thing that we could get across today that people could understand about mental health, I think that would be huge.

Doni: Yeah, I agree.

I want to ask you about anxiety attacks.

And just as part of what is obviously a much larger discussion, but we all get anxious.

We all have, you know, times when when we feel as though we can't take that next step or we are having issues with our own confidence, when do we know?

When do you know that it's more than just that moment?

When do you know it's something that you should pay attention?

I think the key thing is, is when I work with folks with anxiety, when they reach out for help, it's because it literally paralyzes them, right?

So it becomes something they're unable to leave their home.

They're things that they're missing out.

I've had clients who missed out on graduation.

They missed out on the birth of their child.

They've missed out on funerals.

They've missed out on saying goodbye to their loved ones.

They miss out on going to just basic things that we take for granted, like going to school or going to work.

They stop.

They stay, they stay isolated.

They avoid and try to escape the presence of that anxiety or where they think that anxiety might pop up.

Leslie: Yeah, Leslie, I do.

I, I do avoid certain activities when I know my mood is in a certain state.

I live with anxiety symptoms.

And like Bill said, they can stop you in your tracks.

A bad anxiety attack will keep me grounded to my chair the rest of the day.

I don't get up and go do the things that I enjoy doing.

I don't get up and engage in my coping skills.

And then the anxiety just feeds on itself and it gets worse.

So you need to know that there's a step away from that.

And that's what we educate people about.

And when we talk about anxiety that it can really interfere with what you do every day.

You know, one of the things that impresses me when I listen to you is how you have learned to give yourself grace.

Doni: You've you've learned to accept today for what today is and how you were able to get through this day.

And one of the things that we said earlier was before, when you and I were talking in preparation for the show, is, you know, my recovery looks like this today, right?

Leslie: My recovery looks like this today.

Recovery is is not something that's set in stone.

It is a state of mind.

It is how you live your life.

I live my life in recovery.

I keep my eyes focused on recovery.

Again, that doesn't mean that I don't have very bad days.

I do.

There are still days that I can't get off the couch.

There are still days that I barely eat.

There are still days where those thoughts of hopelessness enter in, But I have an arsenal of coping skills that lead me away from that right.

Doni: And recovery today might be getting dressed right.

Leslie: Recovery today if the only thing I did today was get dressed and combed my hair, then that's recovery.

That's recovery.

What what are the major?

We've talked about the barriers of misunderstanding.

We've talked about the barriers of lack of knowledge.

But but on a day and a day to day way, what is the major difficulty that folks who are living a life with mental illness face?

Bill: I think I think the the major difficulty oftentimes is knowing first of all, being aware, because sometimes those folks that are experiencing a mental health issue, they can't quite put their finger on it.

Right.

So I'm not even sure do I have a mental health issue or not.

But once they recognize it is to know that they can reach out and get help.

And I think that's a that's a that's a big there's a big barrier to that because there's the stigma of what will my friends and family think if I were to reach out and get help.

And also right now, unfortunately, one of the systematic challenges as we've spoken about is the need for mental health issues.

It's really high.

The number of professionals is relatively low, their wait lists.

So you could reach out and say, okay, I need therapy or I need a psychiatrist and could be put on a wait list.

And so, you know, we we want to try to figure out how do we how do we circumvent that.

But I think that's the big challenge right now is is seeking out treatment.

And also when it comes to counseling, making sure that you have a good connection with your therapist, that's a big piece, too, because we talk to people all the time that say, I'm not going to go to therapy.

I went to therapy before and it wasn't really good.

And when you find out it's because they didn't have a connection with their therapist, I think that's a huge piece and there's a lot of burnout in the field.

So therapists oftentimes are rotating in and out of the field.

And so that makes it makes it for each challenge as well.

Leslie: I imagine not being able to see your doctor for three months when you have a medical issue, that's the equivalent, right?

Let's say I break my arm, they're not going to make me wait three months to get into the doctor.

Why do I need to wait three months to get into a psychiatrist or a mental health service provider?

But like Bill said, the turnover rate and the burnout rate are very high in those fields.

Doni: Thank you both so much.

Thank you for sharing.

It makes such a difference.

A bigger difference than I think you could possibly get your arms around to have people hear you talk about this journey.

Thank you for your contributions to to this discussion as well.

It's been just wonderful talking to both of you.

Pay attention to that crisis line information on your screen and I will see you next week.

On to the point.

Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in to the point are those of the host of the program and its guests.

They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of WGTE Public Media.

This program was made possible in part by viewers like you.