I know the 419 with Gretchen De Backer might kill em and Kevin Mullen.

Hey, welcome into the 419 powered by GT, presented by Retro Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin mullen, Gretchen de backer.

Matt.

Kill him.

It is our special Friday surprise guest edition of the 419.

And Gretchen, as I think is has been the trend on this show.

It is your surprise guest at some point.

We will we will have, Matt and I will get a shot at this rotation.

Yes, that's right, we will.

But no, we won't.

But for now, this is another.

Another one of your surprise guests.

I'm very excited to have this person on today.

I know it's a woman.

Yeah, we just got yesterday.

Oh.

That's right.

That's right.

We did.

We end the show with.

We will talk with a woman.

Yeah.

The phones have been burning with people guessing.

Just that.

That clue.

Yeah, well, you you narrowed it down to, you know, about half the population.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

Love it.

Can we talk about the bowl thing?

Okay.

I'm trying to talk about for.

Yes, if we have to.

We've talked about it.

We've talked about wanting to talk about it.

And I know that Gretchen's the one that's been really pushing.

Yeah.

Big short talk about the Super Bowl.

Have you placed any bets already?

No, because I don't know who's playing in it.

If you had to guess who is playing in it.

I know that it's not Taylor Swift's boyfriend's team, which is Sheetz.

That's right.

Good for you.

And I'm from Kansas City.

Yeah, so I know the Chiefs.

You're not from Kansas City?

It's that adjacent an hour away.

That's right.

But I remember on the podcast, Gretchen, not remembering where she went to college.

She said, this is great.

I'm from Kansas.

I was multiple places in my defense.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

So?

So.

No, it's not them.

And like, I know Tom Brady doesn't play anymore.

Like, I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Do you watch it at all or I will watch Bad Bunny.

Yeah.

For sure, for sure, for sure I will watch that.

Okay.

Have you been studying your Spanish?

I have I. He's been doing all these promos.

He has his new thing with Adidas and launched this.

The whole line of shoes.

I watch the Grammys like I'm ready.

I'm ready for to watch that.

What is the intrigue with Bad Bunny?

Have you seen him?

Yes.

Then you know what the intrigue is.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

That doesn't.

Yeah.

It's very subjective.

I expected something deeper from you, Gretchen.

Like, it's.

It's his personality and the way he gives back.

It's the culture.

Sure.

Culture?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You just like the way he looks.

No, no.

Do you.

Will you go to someone's house or.

No, I will, I have no plans yet.

Are you having people over?

No.

Not now.

No, it just canceled.

So who is playing in the Super Bowl?

It is the Seahawks and Tom Brady's former former team, the Patriots.

That's right.

They're good for you.

Yep.

Okay.

That was impressive with your family.

What's your dad a sports fan.

Yes.

But interestingly he was a huge fan of NASCAR.

You're kidding me.

NASCAR worshiper.

Yeah.

Like you would name, you could name a sponsor.

You can name a driver.

And he would know every single one of their sponsors in his work with Dana, or he has always been.

I just think he just.

Maybe.

But you just love cars.

We went up to miss and did the races all the time.

You I this is for his birthday one year.

We did like a NASCAR experience for him and he got to go and just drive the car in the driveway.

Yeah, we drove real fast.

That's the driveway.

See, I believe that like NASCAR and wrestling like that, if you know the backstory, right?

If you actually know something about the athlete.

Sure.

Then like, you're more into it, right?

So like when I watch NASCAR, I see a car drive past a car.

I do not know the bad blood between those drivers or that they used to be on the same team in a theater of it.

Yeah.

I don't, I don't know any of that.

A live NASCAR event is something that everyone should experience.

It is really cool.

It's actually really interesting.

The people watching is you think Cedar Point is a good trip for people watching this.

NASCAR takes that to the next level.

But there is a fascinating component.

You can get headsets and listen to, how the pit talks.

There's fuel calculations being done by scientists.

It's that I, I'm watching that TV is a recipe for, to used to drive my mother crazy because all you would hear from the other room is earlier.

You know, that sound of them going around the track?

Right.

Okay.

Oh my goodness.

All right, let's get out of this.

It is is your guest.

We've already established, that it's.

It's time.

It's Tom Brady.

Yeah.

That's right.

It's only, any other clues?

Yes.

All right.

He is actually handsome.

I met him in person.

He's stunning.

Any other any other hints?

It's not Tom Brady.

This person is a juxtaposition onto herself.

So what a dumb clue.

If you know what that is, please call the helpline.

The the the creator of guess who is really Grover and his or her?

Great.

Yeah.

All right.

We will figure out who Gretchen's surprise guest is.

They probably on the other side of this break.

It's the 419 on.

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Welcome back into the 419.

It is our surprise guest edition of the 419.

And, Gretchen, it is your guest today.

It is.

Tell us who you've invited to be on the program.

So for those who don't know what juxtaposition means, it's.

This is everyone.

It's not I don't know.

I don't know how well, you know our audience.

That's true.

It is double duty.

Yeah.

The core team anymore?

Yeah.

The core audience knows what juxtaposition means, but I don't know that you do.

It's two opposing things that happen at the same time.

Basically, you're in a position, but it's this other weird thing that happens at the same time.

So this explains my guess in my opinion.

She went to both BGI and the University of Toledo.

That's the board, right?

Okay.

She has a degree in teaching theater, but she's also a licensed social worker.

Master's degree in that.

She's British.

Lives in United States.

Lives here in Toledo.

I have you, I've got.

I still think you don't know what.

She's like jumbo and director of the issue box theater here in Toledo.

Our guest is Rosie.

Bess?

Yes.

Welcome.

Hi.

Thank you.

Thank God we got out of that.

That was talk.

Yes.

I mean, it used to be a beacon for education until that, snippets.

Thank you for being here.

I'm so excited to know that neither Matt nor Kevin.

It doesn't seem like I don't like to have met you, so I know I've.

I've met might be a strong term, but I know we've been in the same room at some time, but I cannot place where it is, and I have the next 30 minutes to figure it out.

Okay.

There you go.

Let's start at the very beginning.

30 years ago, I came to this country.

Yeah.

So.

And, I've been here ever since.

What did you come for?

So I came to visit with a church, and I was helping them sort out the youth pastoring needs.

They had, I had come to visit and, that somebody from the church and, ended up.

Long story short.

Went back to England, got a religious work visa, came back on that, got my green card, got my, now I'm a citizen, so.

Yeah, but, 30 years.

So it's been it's been a while.

Yeah.

And you had two guests the other week, Dave Durkee and, I used to teach in the room next to Dave Cookie Dough, and he was very passive aggressive.

Well, maybe there wasn't much passive about it.

Sure.

I he was impressive.

Yeah, he was just the lyrics of God Save the Queen by the Sex Pistols.

He's put those under my door.

Yeah.

And then when people would come in to audition, for the school, he'd say, now that woman next door, she's going to be doing an accent.

I'm not sure.

Sometimes it's British.

Yeah, she's from Fremont.

Yeah, that sort of thing.

And, so, so, you know, don't don't let it get away with that kind of thing.

So, yeah, I was at Toledo School for the Arts for ten years.

I did not know that, you know, teaching there.

I was teaching theater.

Yeah.

I had just got well, in fact, I thought my master of arts and teaching theater like about a year and a half in.

So I already had my undergraduate degree in theater.

And, I was getting that, and then I was it I was exhausted after ten years teaching there because it was a lot.

And I thought I had a great plan of what I was going to do.

And then that didn't work out.

And so I found myself going, You know, I've got the spiritual bit and I got this theater bit, I'm really interested in helping helping young people become all they can be.

I guess that's the best way to put it.

And so I went and got my master's in social work at the University of Toledo.

So I was back there.

So I did my undergraduate there in theater and did PG was other stuff, and then back to back to UT.

Tell us about your family.

Back in England is you have siblings, parents that are still.

Yes.

I'm the youngest of five children.

And my my dad died, actually, when I was 19.

Which was very sad.

But my mom was still alive until, oh, several years ago.

But I still have.

Well, I have, two brothers who remain alive and my sister.

And, then a while ago, my nephew from my sister's child, he decided he wanted to come over here and study his MBA.

Oh, nice.

And so he is also in this country and found himself a very lovely wife.

And they have two lovely kids.

Who.

So you guys are colonizing again?

Exactly.

We're taking it back.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah, well, not fast enough.

I was going to say that there's so much material that I'm not sure whether I should.

You know, that's the whole show.

Yes.

So tell us, how you what the issue box theater is and how you decided to start that?

Yeah.

So so there I was, you know, I love theater.

Now, where did that come from?

I don't know if you circle back on that.

Your family is all artists, all creatives know how.

My dad was a pharmacist, but he was a very incredible storyteller.

All right, so he he in Ireland, they have a phrase which is you're a queer gag.

Yeah.

Which means you're sort of funny.

So he was a queer gag?

Yeah.

And, my mom was a singer, and she would like to be used to me, right?

So funny story.

Yeah.

She was selling pharmaceuticals.

So my, you know, they were living in Belfast.

Sure.

So a center for comedy dad was a pharmaceutical, you know, turn of whatever they were.

And my mom was a nurse.

She was training as a nurse, and they used to send.

They used to send the the pharmaceutical.

Was it was it somehow one of them would get sent to the stores to pick up a pair of fallopian tubes.

Or they would be sent down to the stores to get the big weight.

Okay.

And then after they'd been standing there for a while they'd say have you waited long enough.

You know.

And it was all a gag, all a gag.

Yeah.

There's this similar in the restaurant business you would send, the newest person, to an adjacent restaurant.

I worked for a group that had several on the same street, and we would send the new person to go get the oven warmer, okay?

Or have somebody empty that water in their coffee machine.

And it was a it was a, I guess, a new way.

Yeah.

Initiate the.

Yeah.

Right.

And you could get their driver's license.

You make them go to the, you know, the auto parts store to get the blinker fluid?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's also same setup for buying time as Kevin.

Google's fallopian tubes.

I will say, you know, when when you said, like, the position I was was using tubes.

I mean, I've heard that the healthcare in the US is significantly better than the rest of the world.

And when you said that you had to go to the store to get fallopian tubes, I was like, I confirmed, I believe it.

Yeah, I believe it.

So if you.

So I have spent time as a therapist.

So how long have you been in denial about what is the public school system done to you?

Yeah.

But but your dad, your story, your storytelling.

Dad, do you have a favorite anecdote or, something that you cherish in memory of something?

Oh, so many, but, one that immediately comes to mind.

Is that my we we had gone to this Renaissance fair or something like.

Sure.

And my brother had was newly driving, so he was maybe 16 or 17.

And he had parked at this fair and he was on his own in this car.

And then later on, my dad's coming home and he sees his car parked there, and my dad writes this note and it's like, you know, this is the worst parking job.

This is the worst parking job I've ever seen.

Yeah.

And then he signed it own only kidding.

Oh, sure.

Okay.

Yeah, but he his writing was a mess.

But anyway.

So.

So my brother gets this, and he he goes off and he's like, what is going on.

Who did this?

And he goes to the well, then he comes back home later that night and he's like, and I told those people that this was and my dad is just cracking up laughing because it was just his own.

He was like, God, I'm.

Oh yeah, he was he was just he was a very, very human, very well loved in the community.

When he died, there was this one guy who was a farmer who lived up the street, and he he drove his tractor down in his three piece suit.

Oh my gosh.

Because he was like, I wanted to be there for you, dad, but I didn't.

The wife had the car, so she comes down the road in his tractor and his three piece suit.

Yeah.

And then because he was a very popular man and because of when we had the funeral, at the end of the service, they started playing the Hallelujah chorus because we knew it was a certain length of time.

The family had to get out to get into the cars, to get to the crematorium before it closed.

Yeah.

And so they didn't.

And they knew that everybody was going to want to speak to us because, you know, they.

Sure.

Everybody had anecdotes about my dad.

Yeah.

So they played the Hallelujah.

We shut out.

Yeah.

And my brother said, yeah, it'll be a burn up to the burn up.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, this sort of reverent, you know, and, Yeah.

And where does the religious so part of your life come from?

Yeah.

So both my parents were Methodist local preachers.

I and and that was supposed to happen in March 1965.

They were going to take their final preaching tests and everything.

And, because they had finished having their family and that was going to be that.

And oops, yeah, I spoiled the plans.

And so they realized by the time much 65 came along, my mom would be too pregnant to get up into one of the country pulpits.

Oh my gosh.

So she had to do her, exam in January.

65 yeah, because there was still a couple of months ago with me.

So I always say that I went the first seminary I went to was in Utah.

Sure.

I was yes, I was, I baptized in the water.

Yeah, whatever.

Let's let's stop that one before we finish here.

Back to the fallopian tubes.

Yeah.

What the hell are they thinking?

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

First time ever happened.

So Gretchen had this, Baptist that can read, right?

That's what my grandfather.

It's that right.

I always used to hear that Baptists were wet.

All over.

There we go.

Now we need to move quickly.

So, Gretchen.

Who?

That's the question I want to get back to.

What?

What is the issue?

Box theater.

Yes, sir.

It is the marriage of theater and community and education.

Our mission is to create space for human dignity, using the arts, for social justice.

So we are not like any other theater company in town, in that we are not just sitting down at one point in the season and say, let's come up with a season of what's, what's popular, what's what, what's what's going to bring in the money.

Like, if I could do that, then I probably would be making bank.

But, but we sort of sit and we go, what is the issue that we need to be thinking about right now?

So our most recent performance, was a piece called What the Constitution Means to Me, and that was written by, Heidi Schreck.

Okay.

And she, she talks as a 15 year old girl about going to constitutional competitions and she loved the Constitution, but then she suddenly realizes that women are not mentioned in the Constitution.

And then she draws a line about how violence against women is very problematic.

And maybe it's because people don't understand the history of the fact that women are missing in the Constitution, and that women have been misrepresented and there weren't enough women so that they had to bring in these mail order brides from Ganga back Germany.

And and then she stops and she says, but it's not that there weren't enough women, it's that they weren't counting the, people of color or the indigenous women.

And it is a really powerful piece.

And Rebecca Facey played Heidi when we did it and just was brilliant.

I mean, there's no other way I saw it.

I was going to bring that up.

She's not an actress.

She is not.

Toledo, city of Toledo prosecutor and Toledo municipal court.

She's a lawyer.

But she was absolutely spectacular in it.

It was a sold out crowd at the, the theater, at the library.

It's amazing because our experience with lawyers on this show is that their talent was personality.

Let's group up a lot.

There's a real juxtaposition between.

Yes and.

And that's the show.

We come full circle.

We just take one word.

It's like Pee-Wee's Playhouse.

Sure.

For sure.

Know a dance to good cheer.

Enough as well.

Dancing?

Yeah.

And so that was a piece I was wondering about this.

That was a piece that that was already performed.

Other places.

Yes, I actually saw it in New York with Heidi Schreck playing the lead character.

Okay.

And I knew I was like, this is I got to bring this back.

Cool.

And but then it's because it's a about an hour and 15 or an hour and 30 and it's like.

But who's going to be Heidi?

Yeah.

And is an hour and 30 the same in American time as it is in British time?

What's the conversion rate there?

I don't know how the metric system works.

Is it nine hours?

It's not a science based show.

Oh.

Yeah, I don't know.

Okay.

It's a perfectly good answer.

So, she so I don't know if it's right to use the word juxtaposition, but maybe we don't.

At the same time, Rebecca had heard some interviews on NPR about Heidi Schreck.

And because Rebecca's work has been so much around domestic violence and and working, to make sure that justice happens.

She heard about this show and was like, oh, I want to do the show.

And Angie, her wife is, was my supervisor when I was at, Ahrefs.

Okay.

And and it's kind of like I'm having a conversation with Angie, and she's like, yeah, I said, you need to get Rebecca this piece because I think she would love it.

And, and that she heard about it.

And then conversation happens and boom.

Yeah.

And we did it twice, actually.

So the first time we did it, we presented at the Law Auditorium at the University of Toledo.

And we got a we often get different crowds to our theater pieces because of, the way we, we do things, the one at the library was free to anyone who wanted to show up, you could reserve tickets, but because of the library and you can't, then take extra money because the tax levies and all that stuff, again, stuff I don't really understand.

But, so it was done free for the community.

And the mayor was there, and there were lots of people who, you know, I'm, I'm still hearing from people to say, that was incredible.

Yeah, yeah.

And and at the end of that piece, they have a 15 year old girl who comes in to represent who Heidi was when she discovered the Constitution and came to understand it.

And, you know, I think the really important piece for right now, because we're seeing that things that have been, just assumed as being right, and it's in the Constitution, I mean, I, I've spent 30 years hearing that.

Well, why can't you do that?

Because it's in the Constitution.

And and now it seems that it's like.

Well, yeah.

And, sometimes, it feel this current climate feels unrecognizable from the place I arrived at two years ago.

So.

All right, so let's let's take a quick break.

When we come back, I do want to talk about we talked a little bit about kind of scheduling.

It kind of how you build your season.

But I'm curious kind of what that lead time looks like and, and where the inspiration for the next big issue comes from.

So we'll continue that conversation on the other side of the break.

Stick with us.

It's the 419.

Welcome back into the 419.

We're talking with Rosie Best from the Issue Box theater.

Before the break, I said I'm really interested because you had talked about, you know, different from a traditional theater that that sits down at the end of the year or maybe even a year or two out and says, this is what our season is going to be.

Here's the popular shows, here's the different drugs audience.

Right.

Mean you're you're really looking sort of in the moment saying, what's the conversation our community needs to be having right now.

So so how far out are you making decisions on show and who all it plays a part of that if you don't mind talking about.

So there's a board.

But, my, the board that I work with, just amazing and, really very supportive of, of things that I bring to the board.

So we in the past we've done we've done shows about suicide.

We've done we've done shows about people living with dementia.

We've done shows about, somebody with a mental health diagnosis that rocks.

That was actually our first show was next to normal.

And that when I know a lot about tissue box, and I know that it is it's really meaningful work.

But I don't know.

When was day one?

When did this start?

15.

So, February 15th was our first performance.

So not February.

February in 2015.

So last year we had our 10th anniversary.

How about that?

Yeah.

I did not know that.

I mean, we kind of put it together with my 60th birthday, so it's like.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

That's why we had the show today to celebrate your birthday.

Yeah.

Oh, surprise.

No.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

The ice cream cake is not in great shape.

So, so, yeah, we did, we did a fundraiser called miscast, which was really fun.

And people got to play a role that they never would, so I, I played, I did the song.

You got to pick a pocket or two because I thought that was appropriate for a fundraiser.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and then you played Hallelujah.

So you can take some extra time taking money out.

Well, I did it like a drag performance, so I. I actually started pulling dollars from people, and I made, like, of $58 all about that in the time that it takes to sing that.

Yeah, sure.

I was like, I'm going to give up my chain.

My job.

Yes.

Yeah.

Hey.

Yeah, that could be intermission for every show forever.

Yeah.

So, so so going back to your question, we have two main programs that we do.

We have the CME program, which is where we put on shows.

And it's like we want to elevate or amplify this voice or this issue.

And sometimes it is a specific play, like what the Constitution means to me, or sometimes it is talking with local people in the community who are, who have, feel, feel marginalized by an experience I've had, whether it's a mental health diagnosis or that they're gay, or that they have, a medical condition and something that, you know, like it's amazing how many people who have disability placards and have invisible disabilities and kind of deal with yes, idiots who say you don't look like you're in bad shape?

Yeah.

That's the first time I've heard an American accent out of you, so that's nothing.

I believe nothing about that.

Yeah, that's right.

The one in First Nation is oddly familiar to me.

So just like my voice.

And I've heard the the depiction.

So doing some work with the ability center that I mean, that's a that's a minority community.

That's the only one that you can suddenly find yourself a part of.

Yes.

Yes.

And it's often the one that you never wanted to belong to.

For me, that experience happened when I came out because the church that I was at said, get out of here.

We don't want to see you again.

And I said, I hope that this never happens to any of your children.

They said to me, we'll do a Bible study to find out why you're wrong.

And I said, well, I will if you will.

And they went, but but we're not that sorry.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, so see me is really anybody who asked how old you were when that experience happened to you?

That would have been, 24 years ago.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, and it was here in Toledo.

Sure.

A lot of people who knew me then, who still have connection with me say, that it was, you know, just a horrible, horrible thing.

I mean, because I was told never to go back, never to go back, and I haven't.

Yeah.

But but, you know, that's that's what they need.

The inclusion message now is even more important, right?

Because you've walked this walk.

Yeah.

It had gone through a heartbreak.

You've had loss with important people in your life.

And this was certainly a divorce.

Yes.

No loss in our.

Yes.

So you can talk about firsthand, having, you know, issue marks talk about this not just from something that we all accept been difficult.

You've felt it.

Yes.

Which makes.

Well, so here's the thing.

Creating space for human dignity.

We all need to be seen with dignity.

Whatever a story is.

We go and we do storytelling for people living with dementia.

And, And it's just such a joy because so many people say, oh, so-and-so's just had got dementia and oh, like and it's yes, there are some very tragic things about end stage dementia, but there are also people who are living with dementia.

I have a friend, Nia.

She was diagnosed when she was 45.

Oh my goodness.

And she had to be discharged from the Air Force.

But she moved from where she was living.

I think it was Texas up to Iowa to live closer to her son, and she became a pageant queen, singer.

Classic story.

Seriously?

Yep.

Yeah.

Like like that could be a movie.

Like.

But yeah, I mean, so many people would have just written her off, and now she's doing these glamorous shots in magazines and.

And one of the things that she says that I always think is so aspirational is like, I have dementia, but dementia doesn't have me.

Yeah.

And, and I think that, you know, that people want to be seen and heard.

I go once a month to Cherry Street for coffee and conversations, and there's no agenda.

It's not like, are you getting the help you need or anything like that.

It's just, hey, hey, how's it going?

Yeah.

Whatever you want to talk about is part of what we talk about.

She backs does such a good job with certainly the content, but about the spaces that you go into.

I know that you've done stuff with Saint Michael's on the hills and in Ottawa Hills and Cherry Street.

I went to a show that our friend Riley Reynolds, directed.

That was at the planetarium and University of Toledo.

They performed in the planetarium space.

He talked with the library.

What what what is the decision making or the thinking when trying to choose the space to do these?

So it was a very intentional decision early on that we don't have a theater.

Sure.

And what that frees us to do is to take the show where we think it wants.

So, for instance, what the Constitution means to me when we first did it, the law library, because where would people who is studying the law, trying to understand the law, need to need to hear different things about it?

Where would they be?

Well, then, once we performed it and we thought that that was done kind of thing, the Steinem sisters, which is part of the library, their book collection, they did a talk about it.

I called Rebecca, and I said, hey, I think we need to go.

And so we did.

And out of that came this conversation about, let's bring it back and and bring it to the library.

So, yeah, on top of the, the geography, I mean, there are an overwhelming and it feels like ever growing amount of issues that need to be talked about.

How does the group that decides the board are yourself.

How do you decide what's next.

Or is it a voting process.

What's the what's the democracy which I know you people are against based on you know, is there a queen and am I talking to her.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I'm not amused.

Yes, ma'am.

Yeah.

You're not the first person to say that to me.

And you.

You're not, but I do.

You know, every one of these things, that are issues.

You mentioned three of them in our show that they're all you could do.

A lifetime series of them every year.

But how does this decide?

So.

So a lot of it comes from me, bringing things to the board and saying, look, I think we need to do something about this.

I have a play that I would like to do.

So we always do something in conjunction with the Human Trafficking and Social Justice Conference.

And, this year I would like to do something about people who have been released from death row.

I haven't yet secured the rights, so it wouldn't be appropriate for me to say it's this show, but, but we also just got a grant.

The arts and culture.

Yes, we were one of those people, so I so I've been doing this work with, Cherry Street.

Just going in coffee conversation.

I've been doing this work with having people tell a story.

Nora Riggs is at Cherry Street.

I do a lot of work at the Thomas One Center.

And then this playwright suddenly appears on the landscape and says, hey, I'm a social worker, and I've written this play, and it was performed on Boston Common in 2008, and I'm updating it.

Have you got any interest?

That's Rachel Daly.

And so now the three of us start to sit together and look at what this could be like.

And what would it look like if, if, if it was an issue box piece.

And so we wrote a grant while I wrote a grant, and they helped me, in order to get funding so that we want to have people who are currently unhoused, perform in this piece.

We will be able to give them stipends to for their time.

But also, we're going to have they are going to have an opportunity to tell their story in interludes within this play.

So, so interesting.

So the other day I'm doing my coffee and conversation, and it was one of my people who comes fairly regularly to the group and, and, I was saying, you know, so we've got this idea and we've got this thing.

And he said, you know what?

He said, you need to do a scene or have several people act about what it's like to pack up in the morning.

Yes.

Interesting.

And I was like, oh my gosh, he said, because people don't really think like, oh, we all go through that process of, of getting ready for the day.

But we, we don't necessarily think about what would it look like if I can't come straight back to I've got to take everything.

Everything.

Yes.

And and one of the, the things that shocked me was the statistic that fit that between 2024 and 2025, the amount of people in the Cherry Street went from 1000 and something to 2000 and something, and 51% of those people were experiencing homelessness for the first time.

So so all of this, you know, the I grew up with.

Well, and people don't, you know, pull themselves up by the bootstraps and all that stuff, male and American again.

That's too.

Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Got that was going for North of England.

That's like okay.

Thank you.

Yes yes thank you.

Yeah I want to I want to talk about this grant because we, we had a conversation last week with Mark folk.

Okay.

I he's a miserable the community foundation, you know, this arts and culture grant over half $1 million invested in different.

We did around our community.

Where you guys thought you guys were in on that?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, we did get all of it.

Oh, yeah, I was I was like, wait a second.

You're not strong listener.

Yeah.

So so, you know, you could do a show about folks experiencing homelessness without connecting directly with the community.

But this grant sort of really enables this, this merger between, you know, nonprofit organization, artists and community.

And that's such a really special piece.

Yeah.

Like I said, I mean, so again, one of my sort of early ideas or thoughts was that that, theater can be very elitist, right?

You have to go to a special place.

You have to be able to sit there for two and a half, three hours.

You have to be able to buy a ticket.

You have to be able, you know, all these things.

You have to have the transport to get to this specific place in time.

And what about the people who don't get to go there?

What about them?

Don't they deserve the arts too?

And and so for me, you know, we did a piece two years ago called the Willard Suitcases, and it was about 427 pieces of luggage that were found at, the it was originally called the Willard Asylum for the Chronic.

Insane.

Because nothing makes you feel better like than being told you're chronically insane.

Right.

And I did look at you particularly when I said, Benjamin, you're not wrong.

Not the first one to do that, right?

No, no, but, Julian Wick Davis and John.

Chris.

Well, John Crispin took the photos.

Julian Davis wrote the music and the lyrics for this, but but the opening song of that piece is what would you pack if you were going to go to an asylum?

What would you pack?

And it really got me thinking.

So again, when I'm talking to this young man, yes, last week and he says about there should be a scene about packing up for the morning, I was like, all I could hear was that song coming in, you know?

So, we need, we need.

So this project that we're doing this is important is called the Belonging Project.

We're not calling it the Homeless Project.

We're calling it the Belonging Project because all of us want to belong.

We have a yearning and a drive.

Maslow, who did the triangle right.

He put belonging, like, right in the middle of the triangle.

But guess what?

He wasn't studying belonging, right?

The social psychologists who have come after him said belonging should be right down there at the bottom.

And he, was also the top of the pyramid is about survival, right, as opposed to functionality and a higher purpose.

Right.

Well, yes, you got that point.

I agree with you.

Go.

Right.

So so what I'm talking about though is that like the there's a paradox that sometimes in order to belong, we make others not belonging.

Right.

Churches do this, right.

Well you belonged.

We loved you.

You were on our stuff.

We loved you until you made that one decision.

And we think we understand these nine verses in a certain way.

So you got to get out, right?

Well, I did a year, what is a seminary back in England.

Right.

And it's like, you know.

That's actually not the way to understand those verses, but like, you have to have intention and curiosity to lean in and, and investigate.

Sometimes we do we do, the process a lot of people talk about in terms of the Bible, for instance, is exegesis.

I'm going to extract from this text everything that's there.

What unfortunately happens more often is the people use I said, Jesus, which says in my mind, right, this is wrong.

So now where can I find it?

And oh, here, I got my verses here.

Yeah.

Yep.

That's a fundamental.

I have found more people talk about who they are and lens of what they are not.

Right.

They talk about not what they're for, what they believe in or what they love.

But they, but a lot of people start the conversation or answer that question with these are things they don't like or they should be against something and then try to find the evidence.

I think that's what you've just.

Right, right, right.

And there's no easy transition to the gun part of our show.

So, so inevitably it always seems like we run out of time, which means we need to have you back on.

Okay.

You guys are doing incredible work at issue and theater, and I don't want to, like, narrow it down to say it's this organization.

Or is it?

You're doing incredible work in the community.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Where can people find out more information?

Yes, our website dot issue box theater.org.

Okay.

Or they can email me at Rosie at issue box theater.org.

How did you think of that creative email and all right, here we go.

It's about time for the quiz.

Gretchen.

Wacky quiz.

What's that?

Thank you.

Yes.

Yeah.

Wait.

Please keep that energy.

You're going to need it.

All right.

For rapid fire questions for me.

Gretchen is asking for your favorite thing, and you need nine words.

I wrote them down.

I listen to I listen to gherkins things.

So I could be sure that perfect that's under criminal.

Just don't set the bar attached.

Yeah, that's no bar at all.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, there's a bar there.

All right.

Question number one.

What's your favorite movie line?

Oh, this may be a cultural thing.

Are you being stupid or merely ignorant?

Is that a question?

For me, it's from.

It's from the Shadowlands.

Oh, okay.

This may be a cultural thing.

Are you being stupid or just ignorant?

It's a joy.

David Bean said it to the Dons at Oxford when they were saying about all the facts on Teen Wolf what does a perfect day look like for you?

Oh, nowadays, relaxing, spending time with the dogs and, cat, TC, drinking coffee with friends, maybe a dinner out or dinner.

And I, you know, anymore.

It's kind of easy because if you just said one thing.

Please, for God's sake, stop your ass.

What animal?

What animal would you be in another life?

Oh, probably a dog.

I did play a dog once when I was at the University of Toledo.

And, the Sylvia was the show.

Yeah, probably a dog.

What achievement are you most proud of?

I have grown a lot of things.

And, And then walked away.

Maybe too early, I don't know, like when I started at TSA, there was, three part time staff.

And when I left the theater department, there was, three full time staff and, and no, two full time staff and a part time staff teaching theater.

And there was also a full time tech director, and I think now there's two.

So it was the little department that could when I started there.

All right.

What's your number one best or favorite thing about the city of Toledo or the region?

There's so many possibilities.

All right.

Now here's the nine.

My nine word.

Yes.

Okay.

Welcoming.

Yep.

Curious.

Yes.

Home.

All right.

We're doing it.

Artistic?

Yes.

Vibrant.

Got it.

All seasons.

Sometimes in one day.

I I'm accessible.

Yes.

Affordable?

Yep.

Aspirational.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nailed the best with the issue box theater.

Rosie, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It was a pleasure.

When we come back, we're going to be welcomed by or joined by Janelle Massey, who's got a mental health summit for student athletes coming up.

We'll learn a little bit more about that.

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Welcome back into the 419, powered by CTE, presented by Retro Wealth Management.

We're joined now by John L Massey.

Thank you so much for being with us.

You've got a lot going on.

But you've got a big event coming up, I guess let's let's maybe back up a little bit.

Agility counseling, is your organization.

What does agility counseling do?

Everything.

No.

And that's the show.

It's a private practice.

It's only about three years old because, I am a coach's wife.

And so I've moved around in this country, and have been a mental health therapist in different arenas, including the schools and hospitals.

And so the places you lived was the least mentally healthy place.

Only in New York.

There you go.

Right?

Yes, yes, it is an hour and a half south of Buffalo.

And I don't ski.

And I lived on a ski resort, so, Yeah.

Snowing in April.

Not not a fan.

No, no, but, Yeah.

So worked.

So I decided to go out on my own, in private practice.

And so now I, see a lot of folks, mostly high school, college and professional athletes and, picking up a lot of retired athletes.

And I don't think that's by mistake.

You've got a summit coming up called the Athlete, Mental Health Summit focused on student athletes.

What let's let's start with before we talk about what it is, why?

I have my own story.

You know, when I played in the 1900s at Xavier, I was a soccer player that went on a visit, to play soccer.

Xavier and I was a three sport athlete in high school, and, Xavier wanted me to play basketball, which I was very new at and did a lot of, recruiting and, reassurance that I would be this project that they would groom.

And so my parents said, yes, we're not sitting outside anymore.

And we like the scholarship offer.

You're going to play basketball.

Did you have a favorite of the sports that you played?

Soccer.

I played it the longest.

Thought I was Pele, so.

Yeah.

So I get there and position.

Did you play in soccer?

And striker of course.

You joined Division one soccer.

Oh, okay.

I can you can always tell a striker's ego I do.

Yeah, it was really good.

Yeah.

It doesn't help.

I mean, play to score if you let the other team score a bunch.

Just a reminder.

And I did midfield too, so.

Okay, so you're working your way back like a real athlete.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

So I, thought I was going to be, cultivated and supported, but that, you know.

No, not to the coach.

It's, it's the nature of the sport in college sports.

So I never played under the coach that recruited me.

And so, my new coach inherited a project and did not want necessarily a project.

And so it was rough at Xavier and the summit.

Why?

Because I wanted, to be the person that I needed, and provide supports and resources, for student athletes that are often, assume that they got it all together and they're strong and they're mentally tough and they can endure.

So that's why 30 years later, it's still the same story.

Student athletes, are not doing well.

And, we have parents, that are trying their best, but often are the stressor.

Is it the pressure?

Is it, especially now you have all the NRL stuff, and then you could be making money for your whole family and getting to those scholarship dollars.

You're also in school.

And the great.

I mean, is it the pressure?

The main thing is it depression?

What what is the what is the mental health concern for student athletes?

Yeah.

So, there's this amazing book called The Anxious Generation.

And they're not lying.

And I think that a lot.

I mean, oftentimes we want to we want to go straight to social media as being the culprit for that.

But I do think that pressures, play into that.

As far as creating more and more anxiety, I have been on this journey of being certified in emotional agility, and we talk a lot about, parents over protection.

Being the number one catalyst for the anxiety is the fascinating thing to me.

And I just want to interrupt for a second, because when you are your client, is it how do you refer to your client or patient or how do you refer my my people?

Your people?

That is the athlete or the parents?

Or how do you wedge yourself into the health of these two great questions that both sides have to be involved?

Absolutely.

Gretchen just interrupts my questions.

No, no, she adds a little salt.

So and so that's the but the bad tasting kind of answer that question.

That's that's exactly right.

The one that you don't use when you get something from the healthy guy.

So no, that's the issue, is that we're not looking at it as the systematic approach.

Sure.

So I see my high school population is growing, and I tell parents right away, if you don't want to be a part of the process, I don't know how I'm going to not, how I'm going to help your child effectively.

And so at the college level, it's a little different, but I've, I've done some zoom with parents of college student athletes.

But I do not, just, you know, help and support the high school athlete alone.

Oftentimes I would work with the kid, and as soon as they walked out, I was like, well, everything I just did, yeah, went to done right immediately.

We don't use crap on oh I'm sorry.

And I tried really hard.

That's the other word.

So so trust me, this show is, I'm sorry.

It's a potty mouth.

How young are you starting?

I'm sorry to interrupt, but, like, so.

So I don't do anything under 13, and that's intentional.

Sure.

We have enough attention, to to kids being able to cope and not just be children.

Okay?

And enjoy the sport.

Remember when kids used to just enjoy, playing basketball or soccer and things like that?

And so I don't want this added stressor that the the parent has recruited me in order to make sure that this kid is mentally tough at 11 years old.

Right.

And yeah, what what do you hope people take away from the summit?

A whole lot of things.

I, I hope that, a lot of folks who are doing things right take home validation that, you know, what they're doing and how they're supporting their kid.

They're on the right track.

There are a lot of parents that I mean, parenting is rough, right?

It's hard.

And oftentimes we're questioning, are we doing this right?

I'm hoping that coaches and youth directors are curious about other strategies and supporting, their student athletes, but also creating a psychological safe culture because oftentimes when we use the word psychological safety, and I work with college teams to doing this, first thing, they're like, oh, I don't need my kids to be soft.

Like, they've got to go out there and they got to go to war.

And I'm like, so, so redefining, what a healthy teen culture is.

So is this intended for coaches, coaches, parents, parents?

Yes.

Okay.

So and we don't talk a whole lot about the morning session because that's where all the a lot of juju there.

But that's that's invite only.

We invite 21 and 25 high schools.

So this is our second annual mental health summit.

And the first one went off really well.

So total we had about 400 people attend.

So about 250 in the morning.

With 16 schools last year we already have 21 with two open spots, Star and Calamity Snow Day.

So some of the kids have had to back out.

But in the evening it is specifically for athletes, parents and coaches and anyone who supports the whole athlete.

So we have a variety of things that we cover.

We have physical therapists, because overtraining is a thing, right?

When is this taking place?

It's February 23rd.

It's on a Monday at Imagination Station.

Doors open at 430 and we're doing a what we called an athlete talk, rotation.

So last year we learned we had a lot of panels.

We had a lot of folks who monopolize the time on the panel.

Sure.

Facilitating panel is an art.

It's an art.

And so when you have coaches on the panels who are used to talk.

Right.

And so this time around we're mimicking speed mentor and speed dating.

And so these groups of folks get to interact with the trainers.

Yes, I think so to my committee of 23 people have not caught the full vision but hopefully yeah yeah yeah we're almost there.

I have a hard question for you potentially.

What is the juxtaposition, between hard and soft?

That's important.

Right.

People need a backbone and feel entitled to being safe.

Yeah, yeah.

Athletes need to be hard to compete.

Yeah.

And push hard schedules.

But there's a soft component of it that these are human beings and not.

Yes, largely not to be professional athletes.

Can you talk a little bit about that, that hard bag.

Absolutely.

So I don't use the word hard, but I use the word strong.

Right.

And so when we define mental health nowadays we're defining it as the absence of uncomfortable emotions and the avoidance of adversity.

And that's not what it is.

It's the ability to be able to get through hard, uncomfortable adversities and emotions.

And that's being strong.

Right.

And so we can be vulnerable.

Yeah.

It's all these TikTok definitions on online that is is, is saying to protect your peace.

And it's like no peace doesn't need to be protected.

Right, right.

And so so student athletes are told to suck it up and grit it out.

And back in our day, especially, these kids don't suppress feelings.

They are they have been educated on expressing themselves.

And it's just we have to figure out a way.

Now that you've expressed it, how do you cope with those and how do you endure and walk through?

I always use the analogy if you're in a weight room and you want to get strong, you have to carry heavy weight.

Right.

So that's that's how we become strong.

Very smart.

Where do people find more information on the summit.

Eventbrite.com.

We also have a Facebook event page.

If you Google the athlete mental health Summit you will find all the information.

We have a bonus session coming up with high school.

You know, we have the leading expert, that is talking about he's written, I think, 41 or 42 high school policies on that.

There's a lot of myths that creates a lot of pressures from parents.

And so we're having that in the evening as well.

But you can get all the information.

Eventbrite.com.

Jerry, thank you so much.

When we come back, we'll wrap up this edition of the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

Another great show.

Good.

Fantastic guest.

Yeah.

Great is awesome.

Yeah, she is awesome.

I knew a little bit about it, but not to that extent, obviously.

Well, I mean, we said in the break, like, I feel like both Rosie and Janelle, like we could have done the entire show with, with just them.

There's so much about what she said during the break.

So much to offer.

Yeah, but juxtaposition is the placing of two or more distinct elements side by side to highlight their differences.

Contrast her.

I know, we know, there it is.

I don't think use it in a sentence.

Yeah, no, use it properly.

We're out of time.

Yeah.

Three different ways for you to enjoy the program.

Every single day.

They're juxtaposed to one another.

7 a.m.

on YouTube channel, 3 p.m.

on FM 91 and Toledo, Brian Defiance and Lima and 6 p.m.

on channel 30.4.

Look up juxtaposition and call Gretchen.

Yeah.

Call Gretchen.

Tell her what it means.

Thank you so much for being part of another episode of the 419 powered by CTE, presented by Retro Wealth Management.

We'll see you Monday for another mayor.

Monday.

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