Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in to the point are those of the hosted, the program and its guests.

They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of WGTE public media.

Doni: From the earliest prisons in the United States, reformers have struggled with the problems of punishing criminals while also preserving their humanity with protecting the public, while also allowing prisoners to reenter society after their sentences and with ensuring that the rights and interests of victims and their families remain a priority.

A tough proposition, to be sure.

Lucas County has entered this discussion with the most creative and ambitious approach to reforms seen in decades.

Strategies that include expedited case processing, coordinated community practices and the diversion of underserved populations to name a few Promise to make Lucas County jails among the most progressive in the nation.

Join me as I discuss the issues of reaching King jails with our guest, Holly Matthews, executive director of the Toledo Lucas County Criminal Justice Coordinating Council.

I'm Doni Miller and welcome... To the Point.

Connect with us on our social media pages.

I would love to hear from you and you can do that by emailing me at doni _miller@wgte.org.

As you know, for this episode or any other that you might like to see, all you have to do is go to wgte.org/to the point.

We have the most exciting conversation planned for you this morning.

As someone who has spent her entire community, her entire career working in community, I am particularly excited about what's going on with Holly Matthews at the Toledo Lucas County Criminal Justice Coordinating Council and your partners.

You guys are spending time rethinking jails.

Is that possible?

Holly: It is.

It is definite.

Doni: Prison reform is one of the most difficult conversations that can be had in this country.

And you guys are doing it.

I have to say, I was so impressed and so excited by the work that you're doing.

Why don't we start out by telling people what the council is.

Holly: All right with The Criminal Justice Coordinating Council is established in Ohio as a regional council of government, and we're also established as the local criminal Justice Planning Agency for Lucas County.

We're a board comprised of 13 members, city and county appointments, most by position, and we focus on criminal justice planning, criminal justice grants ministration and then under the JCC is the Northwest Ohio Regional Information System North for short.

And I like to say that Norris is the information technology backbone of the criminal justice system, and North specializes in integrated databases for the courts, law enforcement and jails so we can have a more efficient system.

Doni: How did you begin to take on the idea of reforming our local system of jails?

Holly: You know, the idea really started in Lucas County in 2014, when then Sheriff John Tharp went on the record declaring our pretrial jail facility of a Lucas County Corrections center as inhumane and that it needed to be rebuilt.

And so I think when you talk criminal justice reform and Lucas County, you actually have to go back to the seventies when the current facility was opened and it was actually opened under a federal court order.

So the current site has not been able to operate without federal oversight.

And so in 2014, a group of individuals started discussing what can be done to fix the current conditions and then what can we prepare for in the future.

Doni: You guys have picked some of the most aggressive strategies for reform that are available in the nation.

Tough, tough issues.

How did you decide on what those strategies would be?

Holly: So we initially applied for the Safety and Justice Challenge in 2015, and in 2015, there were over, I think, 200 communities.

We applied for the planning funds.

And what happened was we selected the top 20 applicants.

We're fortunate enough to be one of 20, and we worked for six months as a group with local elected officials, criminal justice leaders, individuals in the system, community members to develop different ideas that we would hope to implement.

And so the foundation provided, I believe, $250,000 for the planning phase.

We were provided technical assistance through the Center for Court Innovation, which is now the Center for Justice Innovation.

And we really examined the system.

So we mapped out what our system looks like.

I think our map is probably seven or eight pages long because if anyone knows the criminal justice system is not a simple process, there are many ins and outs, caveats.

And then we looked at numbers.

So to the system map, we actually added data points of people coming in and people coming out.

We looked at the racial composition of different charges and then we just started to brainstorm.

We had some really great thought leaders in our group, really with creative ideas, some of it building on the existing reforms in our our juvenile system, which has been really recognized for their juvenile justice reform.

Doni: Weren't you overwhelmed, though, with the amount of work that has to be done or no?

Holly: It was very overwhelming.

Doni: I would bet.

Holly: And it was a big list, especially the initial implementation application was due on January six and they provided, I think, a six week window or four window to actually put pen to paper and develop these strategies and estimate our jail reduction targets.

And it was definitely a very stressful time.

But I think the work really paid off and part of this process really solidified a team atmosphere in the various justice components.

Doni: Some of the strategies, though, that you've picked on and I want to read them to you, to folks who are watching very quickly, you're looking at criminal justice practices.

You're looking at managing the jails based on risk, expedited case processing, the diversion of under-served population, bringing the community into this process, which is pretty amazing, and reducing racial and ethnic disparities.

Holly: Yeah, And I will say kind of the kick off for our work was really the managing based on risk.

And so at the same time, in 2015, a core group of individuals at Common Pleas Court and other criminal justice personnel started looking at our pretrial risk assessment.

And there were definitely advancements in the pretrial risk assessment space at that time.

And so they contacted the Arnold Foundation, which is another foundation that supports criminal justice reform.

And they had just released the public safety assessment tool, which we refer to as the PSA.

And what the PSA does is take into account an individual's risk to re-offend and risk to reappear in court.

So prior to 2015, when we implemented this tool, we had a completely charge based system.

And so individuals knew that if you were picked up on disorderly conduct and if you were brought to the jail, you were going to be released.

Because as I mentioned, our jail is under a federal court order.

We do not have the space to hold low level misdemeanors.

And so they just left.

And so then what happened is individuals weren't coming to court, so they were booked.

They were released, and they would never follow through on their charges.

So we created a system of failure to appears.

So we had individuals in the system that just weren't clearing out their cases.

And so as we move to a chart or a risk based system where we finally working through that clutter, so when an individual is now booked, if they're on a lower level misdemeanor, but they've failed to appear numerous times, then they're going to be held and they will go to their arraignment and then hopefully those cases can be resolved and we can clear out the clutter for them.

Also, if you have a person who is very violent, there's a violence flag.

And that's an indication that that person should be held in the pretrial facility.

Doni: Well, that raises a question for me, and let's ask it now before we start talking about this in more detail.

So if I am a citizen and the average citizen and and I am listening to you talk about this, what are you doing that ensures that I stay safe?

I'm starting to get a little worried if I'm that community person out there.

my goodness.

What are you what are you doing to make sure?

Holly: So I would say with this change from a charge based system to a risk based system, that's exactly what we're trying to do.

We're trying to ensure public safety.

So we are holding individuals now in our pretrial facility that we believe should be held.

And we are now releasing individuals that we feel are safe to return to the community.

And there are several factors that are taken into account in the screening process.

So we're looking at how many charges does an individual have, how many incidents of violence does an individual have?

And then that develops a recommendation, recommendation plan for that individual.

So I would argue that with this new system, we're in fact, more safe than we were back under the charge based system, because then it didn't matter what an individual's risk to re-offend or risk to commit a violent act was.

What mattered is what charge They were brought in close.

Doni: Services across all charges?

Yes, all charges.

So if I rob a bank, you're looking at risk based if upon if if I am charged with homicide, you're looking at risk?

Holly: Yes.

Really?

And now in a homicide, it's going to flag the violent charge.

And that means the recommendation is more likely to be keep the individual in jail.

And actually, now with further reform this tool and are no longer making release recommendations, instead, the tool is providing information for judges to base their decision to hold an individual or not.

Doni: All right.

Holly: So the tool doesn't decide.

It's just a guide for judges to use in their decision making process.

And prior to this, judges had criminal history and different information at their disposal, but they didn't have it in a consolidated format that gave quick indicators for them on the bench.

Doni: And the impact of this to the person and the community is what.

Holly: I think the impact is.

We are finally holding the right individuals in the in our pretrial facility.

And I think if we're going to have this discussion, we also have to understand the complexity of what a jail is.

There's a pretrial jail facility in this county, which is this county correctional center.

Doni: I'm going to interrupt you right there because we're going to have to go to break.

But you hold that thought because I think that's really important information for folks to have.

Please stay with us.

We're going to go away for just a second.

But don't you go away.

We'll be right back.

Carol: Lucas County jail today is vastly different than it was in 2014.

The individuals in the jail were not being correctly served, nor was the population of Lucas County.

When we started digging into the needs of the community and the jail population, we realized we can make the community a safer place and a more just place.

Repeat crime before trial can go down.

And in Lucas County's case, it did.

You can reduce your jail population, meaning that people have a better chance of succeeding in life.

VO: WGTE Public Media, in collaboration with the John D and Catherine T MacArthur Safety and Justice Challenge, presents Rethinking Joe and Justice.

A community town hall that challenges our thinking about overincarceration and how this adversely and disproportionately affects racial and ethnic minorities.

Join the discussion at the downtown Toledo Lucas County Public Library on January ten at 5:30 p.m.

Your questions and comments will be addressed at the town hall and can be sent in advance to wgte.org/rjj.

Doni: Listen again, as always, you can connect with us on our social media pages.

You know how.

Just email me at doni _miller@wgte.org.

And again for this episode and any other that you might like to see, just go to wgte.org/to the point.

Thank you for being with us.

We are having what I consider to be one of the most important conversations we can have in this community, and that's about rethinking jails and our guest is Holly Matthews, who is the executive director of the Toledo Lucas County Criminal Justice Coordinating Council.

We were talking about the complexity of the jail system when we went to break.

Holly: Yes.

So there are pretrial difficulties.

There are sentenced jail facilities.

So when we talk risk assessments, we're talking pretrial.

So these are individuals who are charged with an offense, have not yet been convicted.

So presumed guilty and presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Sorry.

No worries.

And, and so always important to keep that in mind because we also have a separate sentence facility in Lucas County, which we refer to as the correction center of Northwest Ohio, which is located, located in Stryker.

Doni: Yeah.

Yeah.

And a you know, a topic for another another show.

But we do struggle with the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

Holly: Yes, definitely.

And that's what we're really trying to tackle in some of our strategies.

So you mentioned early on are diversion of underserved populations.

And what we did with this strategy, we took a look at top offenses in Lucas County Jail.

We were looking at misdemeanors specifically, and we were looking at racial disparities.

And what we found was that three key charges were the leading charges for minorities in our pretrial facility.

Those were disorderly conduct, resisting arrest and possession of drugs.

And what we found about these cases and about, I think, 56% of the time these charges were dismissed as the case work itself through the system now.

So we have high disparities upon arrest.

We have individuals sitting in jail during their case.

And then once the case is resolved, the charges are dismissed in the thought was what can we do to tackle these disparities for these charges and try to speed up the process or provide an alternative.

And so what we came up with was a diversion program through Toledo Municipal Court.

It was developed by the Center for Court Innovation, and it was really grounded on the elements of procedural justice.

And it is a four hour course.

The course is targeted to repeat offenders.

So we really wanted to target individuals that are cycling through our system on some lower level misdemeanors.

And individuals can be referred to the Safety and Justice Challenged Diversion program upon completion of the program, charges are dismissed.

And so for us, this was a way to start chipping away at disparities, also providing some baseline understanding of the process and the system and have cases resolved quickly.

Doni: Really highly.

People don't understand the impact that the old system had on the lives of those people who are already suffering from the impact of every social determinant that you can think of.

And then they're sitting in jail and their life, their lives begin to fall apart.

Holly: And that is exactly the problem.

Every time an individual is in jail, you're further destabilize destabilizing individuals, you're impacting their family, and you're increasing their risk to recidivate.

And so anything we can do to try to break that cycle was kind of the goal of these strategies.

And so that program has been very successful.

And, you know, you've implemented this.

Doni: Yes.

Holly: So we implement we implemented the diversion program, I believe, in 2016 or early 2017, and it has shown some good results.

Doni: Yeah.

Holly: And then the other strategy we're really known for is expediting case resolution.

We we developed what we call the Population Review team.

This was really the brainchild of Shawn McNulty, based on some of his work in the juvenile justice system and some processes used at juvenile court locally.

And what we do is meet on a weekly basis and we actually review every individual in our pretrial facility.

And we have a public defender represented.

We have the city prosecutor's office represented, we have my staff there, we have individuals from the jail.

We have nonprofit agency representation, mainly staff and sometimes UNISON.

We have.

Doni: For mental health, for.

Holly: Mental health services.

And we have pretrial services at times.

So it's really a team approach in.

The goal is to take a look at the jail population and see if there's a way that we can expedite their cases.

And so early on, when this was implemented and this was the very first strategy we implemented in 2016, we were finding some cases that were falling through the cracks or cases we could resolve very quickly.

And so in the room we could replicate the municipal court process if there was, say, a perfect example would be an individual had a disorderly conduct.

In addition to some felonies.

The felonies were resolved last week.

And so the only charge that was keeping the individual in jail was disorderly conduct.

If the prosecutor agreed to a plea deal, then the public defender would meet with their client the next day or even that day.

And if the client agreed to the deal, we would be able to take that case to the duties docket and resolve it that day or the next day instead of a week or two out when the next court date was scheduled.

And this definitely in the beginning had huge success.

I think we had over a thousand beds saved in the first year of implementation.

Doni: No kidding.

Holly: Now, I will say our bed days saving has definitely been reduced throughout the years, and I think that's an indication saying our system is working better.

We're not finding these odds and ends that need to be resolved.

The other thing we do look at our bond reviews.

So if there's an individual that has a bond and three bonds were amended to own recognizance in one is still a cash bond, sometimes a recommendation would be made to also amend the bond to a are.

And so at the at the heart, though, the judge still has final say.

Just because it was recommended doesn't mean the judge has to agree the process is the same as in the court.

If a plea deal is presented to a client and they're not comfortable with the plea and want to pursue the general process, we perceive this general process.

It just opens up options and opportunities.

And I will say probably at least ten jurisdictions have replicated this process across the country.

Doni: That's pretty amazing.

I want to ask you your question specifically as it relates to the importance of having Zepf and Unison, involved in the process.

How significant is the impact of mental health and mental health issues on your process?

Holly: It's huge and we're still working on tackling the behavioral health process and systems within the jail.

Zepf Center just opened up the care center, which is a law enforcement drop off center, and that's really part of our first strategy, which is criminal justice practices.

And it's providing an alternative for police other than jail or other than the E.R.

So if an individual has behavioral health issues, they can take the individual to Zepf, drop them off, and Zepf will provide appropriate support to the individual instead of the individual going to jail.

Now, no charges are filed at that point.

So if it is a severe charge, then police will still use the jail and the individual will be booked.

But if the individual really is having a behavioral health crisis, this is a better alternative.

Doni: So the police in those situations make the determination as to training then they're trained.

Yes, that's one of the things that I noticed that was pretty obvious throughout the plan is that there is an extensive amount of training on this.

So people who are participating in the in the reform are well, well trained in how to make these interventions happen and be successful.

Holly: That is correct.

And also at the same time, Unisonreceive federal grant funds through SAMHSA to provide additional behavioral services in the jail.

So not tied specifically to the safety and justice challenge.

I do think kind of the reforms of the Safety and Justice Challenge really laid the groundwork for that to happen.

Doni: So when the police make the decision that it's a behavioral health issue, they do that because they do that in response to being called to an episode.

Holly: Or it could be, let's talk disorderly conduct.

Doni: That's more what I'm thinking.

Yes.

Holly: So a police officer could be responding to a disorderly conduct call.

They arrive at the scene.

The individual is clearly intoxicated and that the intoxication is really leading the to the disorderly conduct.

So an officer at that point could say, hey, let's take you to Zaf, let's let you sober up and let's go, let's let you go, go on with your life.

Instead of taking the individual to jail, pursuing charges and making an individual go through the justice process.

Doni: Is so good.

Before we forget, because we only have a couple of minutes left, you have an event that you want to mention.

Holly: We do.

So coming up on January 10th, we're hosting in collaboration with GTI, a town hall forum focusing on the Safety and Justice challenge.

It is January 10th at 5:30 p.m. at the main lab library in the McMaster Center, and we're very excited about this event.

And before I forget, I do want to thank the MacArthur Foundation who has provided the funding for the Safety and Justice Challenge.

Doni: Absolutely.

And 15 I want to thank the MacArthur Foundation as well.

This is amazing work that you're doing.

Public is invited.

Holly: Yes, definitely.

We encourage the community to attend and hopefully we'll have a summer of robust discussions.

Doni: All right.

Thank you so very much.

We're going to talk again.

This is just such amazing work.

And thank you all for joining us today.

As always, we appreciate you listening to us, on... To the Point.

I hope to see you next time.

Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in to the point are those of the hosted, the program and its guests.

They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of WGTE Public Media.

Announcer: To the Point is supported in part by American Rescue Plan Act funds allocated by the City of Toledo and the Lucas County Commissioners and administered by the Arts Commission and viewers like you.

Thank you.