Announcer 1: The views and opinions expressed in to the point are those of the host of the program and its guests.

They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of WGTE public media.

Doni: Today we're joined by Lindsay Webb, Lucas County treasurer, whose tenure has been marked by both fiscal responsibility and spirited debate.

As the county's chief investment officer, Webb oversees hundreds of millions in public funds navigating complex financial landscapes while balancing legal constraints and community expectations.

Her leadership has not been without controversy from a public dispute over divesting County funds from Israeli bonds to her outspoken criticism of the county commissioners decision to halt construction of a new jail.

Webb has shown a willingness to challenge the status quo.

We'll explore her perspective on these issues, her approach to public finance and what it means to lead in a time of political and ethical complexity.

I'm Doni Miller, and welcome to the Point.

Connect with us on our social media pages.

You can also email me at Done Underscore Miller at wgte.org.

And for this episode and any other you'd like to see, please go to wgte.org.

To that point, I am excited to have Lindsay Webb with us today.

Lindsay has the honor of being the first female treasurer in Lucas County.

I know that's true.

I looked it up last night after we spoke, so I know that's true.

And she is, because I think in part because you are the a female, elected official, you approach things a little differently than things have been approached before, and, and everyone appreciates that your candor and your your you're being so forthcoming and so transparent.

So I'd like to take our time together this morning to help people better understand what you do and also your approach to some really complicated issues that are out there right now.

And can we do that?

Linsday: Sure.

Doni: All right.

So why don't we start with just letting people know what the county treasurer done?

I was stunned at once.

I discovered the scope of your work.

Lindsay: Thank you.

So the first piece is I am the county's banker.

So every day the county is taking in money and sending out money.

And my job is to help account for that with the auditor's office and make sure the money is in the bank to pay the bills, essentially.

I also manage the county's investment portfolio.

That is a pool of money that is invested in very safe and secure instruments that is there essentially as the county's emergency fund.

I also collect property taxes and then settle with, the auditor.

And that money goes out to the taxing districts in Lucas County.

And we collect delinquent taxes.

So sometimes that involves foreclosure cases.

And, that has necessarily led me to my role as the chair of the Lucas County Land Bank.

So those are the buckets of work that I'm engaged in every single day.

And to answer your question about my approach to the treasurer's office.

I was born for this.

I love government, I love working hard and being transparent.

And, engaging in change.

I lift up my staff.

I manage a staff of 25 people, and we're constantly looking for ways to engage in continuous improvement to serve the people.

That I was elected to serve.

Doni: What do you love most about it?

Lindsay: That it's been a challenge for me.

This is a whole different area of work.

As you know, I came from Toledo City Council, and I was engaged in neighborhood work, essentially.

And there is an element of that through my work at the land Bank and thinking about how foreclosures impact neighborhoods.

But, you know, the financial piece was different.

And so I went about it as I've gone about everything else in my life.

I, I've gained certifications.

I'm a certified public finance administrator.

And I have just leaned in and developed a level of expertise.

I think if you talk to county treasurers around the state, they were questioning, you know, what?

What I would be like.

But they have found me to be competent and forthright and dedicated to the work and the people that I serve.

Doni: I think most everyone was surprised by your responsibility, around managing investments Doni: for sure.

So to be, transparent, I have a fiduciary investment advisor whose sole responsibility is to the citizens of Lucas County, and they advise me and the investment advisory Committee about the prudent investments.

So I have basically state law that dictates what I can invest in.

And then an investment policy in Lucas County.

And that investment policy is passed by the Investment Advisory Committee, which is made up of all three county commissioners, the clerk and myself.

Doni: Your, position is obviously no secret that that your position on some recent, not so recent investments, the ones where, the ones I'm specifically referring to are the Israeli bond insurance have put you at loggerheads with some of the commissioners.

How did you decide?

What criteria did you decide to use in managing that particular investment?

Lindsay: So the tenants that I have to consider when I'm making the investments are the safety of the asset that we're holding.

The liquidity needs of the county.

We have to be able to pay our bills.

And then the third piece is that, that it's that it's prudent and it delivers a decent, return on the investment.

So when I first got to the treasurer's office, interest rates were very low.

The investment income of the county's overall portfolio was maybe $3 million a year, $5 million a year.

But it's starting to approach very real money at this point because of the change in the interest rate environment.

That, coupled with the fact that I have actively managed the investment portfolio and gone from $325 million when I took office to, over 500 million in the managed investment portfolio.

And so we are seeing about $20 million a year right now.

And, so with those tenants that I just described, I have to make the decision as to what we invest in.

So I'm constantly looking to see, you know, what the county's expenditures are going to be so that I know how much I can reinvest and, when I need to keep us more liquid so that we can meet payroll or handle a bond or something like that.

Doni: Do you have, much opportunity to decide yourself on what you invest in?

So, for instance, excuse me.

So, for instance, the investment in the Israeli bonds is one that's charged with emotion.

I read that your most recent meeting around that particular issue was very, very, it was tearful.

It was very highly it was highly charged.

And people were saying things to you like you're supporting genocide.

You're supporting genocide with my tax dollars.

What would you say to those folks?

Lindsay: A couple of things.

I indicated the tenants safety, liquidity and and, and a rate of return.

And consistently, Israel bonds have been one of the highest rate of returns that the county has experienced.

So the $5 million investment that they were discussing at the meeting that matures in December of 26, represents 1% of the portfolio, but it will return $800,000 in, investment income over that three year window.

And so my challenge is that it investment income is the second largest source of revenue for the county in the general fund.

And as spending increases, so does the pressure to have the portfolio perform.

And so that's how I ultimately ended up in some of these other discussions we'll get to.

But to answer your question about, Israel Bonds directly, the decision to invest in the state of Israel was made before my time.

And consistently, the county has held about 1% of its portfolio in those bonds because they are very safe.

They're not liquid.

But they, they generate, a decent rate of return.

And it's a permissible investment under the state law.

I am a wife.

I am a mother.

I am a, a deeply feeling person and a religious person, too.

And it is not easy for me to, hear those kind of accusations lobbed at me.

But I was also elected to do a job.

And the job is to deliver for the people that I serve.

And that means, you know, delivering a rate of return.

And if I started to engage in a political consideration every time we made an investment, the, choices that I would have would continue to be limited.

And necessarily then so would the income that I'm able to generate that the county commissioners are relying on as they put their budget together?

Doni: Certainly.

You understand certainly you understand the concern of those folks who are who are saying to you, you're using my tax dollars to support the elimination of my people.

You understand that?

Lindsay: Of course, I am not insensitive to that in any way, shape or Doni: and, and and I'm sure you would also understand their confusion because you did make the decision to renew that investment when you could have withdrawn.

Lindsay: Yes.

However, in July of last year, I had a $1.5 million bond that we let mature and didn't reinvest.

So, you know, it is a determination at the time.

So, you know, I have been advised by the Investment Advisory committee, to, you know, not to reinvest.

They cannot tell me what to do because I have the investing authority.

I will take that under advisement and see where I'm at in, in December of 26.

That said, there are other people in the community who feel like this is something that we need to engage in.

And again, I can't let their decisions or the decisions of those that are opposed to influence the decision.

The three tenets of safety, liquidity and return are what should guide my decision.

And, and I want to make sure that my responsibility as treasurer remains intact.

This is our circumstances now, but I don't want to tie the hands of future treasurers, in the years to come.

Doni: Yeah.

All right.

It's a tough decision.

You sound as though, You are.

Let me put this differently.

I think I think one of the things that we talked about was the importance of your separating your personal feelings about any of the investments from the actual investment.

Lindsay: That's right.

I mean, I have to do the job that the people elected me to do.

And, I think I've done it.

I think, you know, I've grown the portfolio.

We've made wise investments.

I have done more with less every time the county commissioners have asked me to do it.

And, and I'm proud of the team and the portfolio that we've built.

I understand, the visceral reaction that people are having.

I am not insensitive to it.

Doni: This is a tough one, though.

Lindsay: It sure is Doni: a tough one.

Hold that thought.

We're going to go away.

We'll be right back, though.

You stay with us.

Doni: Connect with us on social media if you would.

And also email me at Doni underscore Miller at wgte.org.

And I tell you this all the time, but it's really important.

If you want to watch this episode or any extras, go to wgte.org.

To the point we have Lindsay Webb with us today, a really interesting and informative first segment about the scope of your work and why you make the decisions and how you make the decisions that you make.

In that vein, I'd like to talk about the jail for a moment.

I think that it wasn't clear to many folks how you entered into that jail discussion.

You went fairly strong.

In your contradiction to the county commissioners decision not to build the jail, after they had invested 19 million in the construction.

How did you get to that decision?

Lindsay: So the minute I got to the county, I started indicating my willingness to work to improve whatever I could, you know, be a partner.

And that sort of thing.

And so part of the investment portfolio is that I can invest up to 15% of my total portfolio in local government projects.

So right now we hold bonds for other governmental entities across the state.

But I could absolutely invest in Lucas County projects.

And so I had been coming to the table with the county commissioners to say, how can I help?

How can we put our investment portfolio to work?

I really believed in the $5 million Gretzky grant and, desire to improve the criminal justice system in Toledo and northwest Ohio.

And I know that no one likes the prospect of building a new jail, and that it's overwhelming and it's, you know, maybe unpopular at the ballot box, but it is a core function of county government.

And I thought that the county commissioners would ultimately figure out a way to get it done, even if it was unpopular or even if, there was some contention.

And I went to the to the meeting when they made the decision that they were not going to pursue building the jail.

And my heart sunk because I had been taking a look at some of the other projects that they were invested in.

You know, that they were essentially servicing debt for other projects like the arena, like the convention center.

And I said, you know, I love those things.

Some of my favorite family memor are there.

But we have to figure out, is this the best way for county government to operate?

So I started looking at, alternatives to where, we could alleviate some of the pressure on the general fund by not having to service general obligation that, through the county.

So you would create this convention facility authority.

I talked about it in a couple of different circumstances, and I was hoping to get some traction, and it just never really materialized.

So I felt like the best thing for me to do was to elevate the discussion so that we could have an honest dialog about how we move forward.

Doni: So elevating the discussion meant that you took it outside of the county commissioners meeting Lindsay: 100%.

Doni: So if in fact, though, if in fact your intention was to work with them, why did you feel it necessary to take that discussion to make that discussion so public?

Lindsay: Well, I think that the the decision not to build the jail really just hit everyone in Lucas County the same way it hit me.

And sometimes you need a big event to bring about change and that's really what I'm trying to propose right now, is that we take a look back and say, okay, we've done it this way.

I'm not saying those are bad investments.

The hotel, but in general, the convention center, the arena, those are not bad investments.

But is there a different way that we can do things?

And I truly believe in my heart of hearts that if the county commissioners put together a comprehensive plan that could absorb the potential $15 million a year, that they would have to pay to service the debt associated with building the jail today, if they had a comprehensive plan that got us there, and they worked collectively with all the rural offices and offices that they control, I think that they would get the buy in, but they hadn't been providing the leadership.

And, you know, so, you know, leadership is twofold.

It's both, skill and persuasion.

Right?

So you have to really understand what you're talking about and how to change things, but then also get people to see why it's important.

And I just felt like that wasn't happening.

Doni: Is all of that inside your scope of work, though.

Is it is it an appropriate inquiry for you to make at that level?

Lindsay: So here's what happened.

In 23, Commissioner Gerken approached me about helping to refinance the hotel debt and, again, it's that, nexus to the portfolio.

So I, you know, requested the documents to look at the operating agreement, and, I understand that my investment income is pledged to support.

That's almost $40 million in debt.

So the pressure on my investment income, again, if something goes awry and they have to make those payments on those bond anticipation notes, they're going to use that investment portfolio income to pay that.

So it is central to my discussion.

It's just we're unaccustomed in this community for a treasurer to really stand up like this in recent years.

And it's not something that, that I, enjoy.

I've rather enjoyed just doing the work and being with my staff and being, a partner, but, I am an elected official, and so I have to provide leadership, transparency and, and accountability.

I mean, I think you can go to every ribbon cutting, but when things don't work out the way that they're supposed to, you have to take a deep look at that and say, what can we do differently?

And I'm urging the county commissioners to do that.

Interestingly, the next county commissioner that, is up for reelection is Lisa Sobecki, and I honestly think that she is providing that leadership.

Her experience down at the state House has really helped shape who she how she shows up and who she is as a leader for our community.

But she's out voted right now.

And so, you know, I want to be the voice of, hey, have we really looked at everything?

Are we looking at transformative ways of leadership in this moment of Doge and everything else?

People are expecting government to function much differently than it did.

What we used to do does not work in this moment.

We must adjust, and we must step up.

Doni: Right?

That's exactly right.

So let me ask you the obvious question.

All right.

Lots of folks are thinking this.

I'm just going to ask it.

Are you preparing to run for a commissioner seat?

Is that does that have any influence at all in your decision making?

Lindsay: No.

I will not run against Lisa.

Sobecki.

And I just swore in I.

My term starts September 1st.

First business day will be September 2nd.

I am signing up for, another class to get more certification behind my name as a certified public investment manager.

I like my job.

I love my staff, and I am enjoying the work and I have a family to raise, so it's not as if I want their job.

I just want them to take a step back and say, what can we do differently?

How can we show up for the community?

How do you spend a decade saying that the jail is an essential part of what we need to deliver for the community only then, on a given Tuesday in the summer, say, well, actually, I know we spent $20 million, but we can't go forward.

I think you owe it to the people to take a hard look and make some hard choices and and restructure some things Doni: and I'm certainly not an apologist for the commissioners, but their response to you would be, we don't have the money.

We just don't have the money.

Lindsay: Sure, there are there are choices.

One of the ideas that I have floated is, I offered a buyout to two people in my office, and, I found out that there is a, mechanism in law called, 115 trust that would allow the county commissioners to put a buyout in a trust that they control, that their workforce could draw on, to help them pay for out-of-pocket medical expenses.

The number one reason why people aren't retiring from Lucas County right now is because they are not Medicare eligible.

And so this would provide that bridge, essentially.

And I think that you could probably achieve some of the salary savings that you're looking for, both through providing a humane bridge for people who would like to retire but can't, and also building relationship with the electeds, that run those rural offices to say how can you work with less?

What technology can we bring in to make you, run your office more efficiently or effectively with less people?

That's a discussion.

And I, I just think that we get bogged down in the minutia or the tit for tat, and instead there should be real work about systemic change.

Doni: Yeah.

Yeah.

All right, so, there are certainly other issues in your office than the two we've talked about today.

What is coming up on your plate?

What big things are happening in the treasurer's office right now?

Lindsay: So one of the things that I'm most excited about is really getting my arms around the amount of delinquent taxes that we have.

So, we have actually Doni: Whats that amount right now?

Lindsay: Well, all in, it's, $140 million now.

Yeah.

It seems like if you talk to Cuyahoga County, their number is much smaller.

They have a tax suspension list because they have clearly identified the number of parcels that are, the taxes are, more than the property is worth, and they've separately accounted for those.

We haven't done that.

Some of the bigger counties are doing tax lien sales.

We haven't done that.

So but what I've been doing is I have, taken that macro report, and created a custom.

AI, query a data analysis, basically that's helping me identify, you know, which parcels are, owner occupied, you know, homestead, and where we can say, hey, listen, this is your tax debt today.

If you don't do anything, it's going to look like this.

Protect your investment, protect your equity.

And, we'll be communicating with those taxpayers directly about their amount and what they can do and will be, offering, you know, a different set of choices for the commercial sector.

So we've taken the debt and really analyzed it and created essentially small segmented, strategies for improvement.

And I'm committed to making that number work for us, work for the community and and getting us where we need to be for our future.

Doni: There is so much to talk about.

And of course, we've run out of time.

You will come back.

Lindsay: I'd love to.

Doni: I would love to have you back.

There's so much more that we need to address, especially around the delinquent tax issue, which is affecting our community for very, very significant ways.

Thanks so much for joining us today.

And you.

Thank you for joining us as well.

And I'll see you next time.

On to the point.

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